Topic: "Freedom isn't Free"

[demon78]

It continually pisses me off that you southerners cast every thing in communism versus america why,is it
because you are incapable of finer definitions than that or what . I have had universal health for most of my life that does not make me a communist you have a military it does not work on free speech, free thought any more than any military so are all military organizations communist? Oh and I don't give a flying #$%* about Bernie or Donny.
Bill the demon.

[JWExperience]

Law enforcement/government cannot force any company to break the encryption. The fourth amendment and courts take care of that.
I understand that in this case the tech is being debated but your failing to understand that encryption falls under a larger umbrella of privacy and will need to be hashed out in court. As will a lot of other future technology. Case law is established everyday.
To just enter into somebody's data for the purposes of a search would violate the fourth amendment which is what you keep insisting will happen. If you now say that the government will do what they want because...insert excuse... Then you are not arguing the legitimacy of the suit or warrant and instead are entering into the realm of what ifs and what might be. Kinda conspiratorial in my mind when you say that law enforcement will have the decryption key to ANY citizens encrypted data. That sounds like a warrant less search to me and violates the fourth amendment.
And Bill, to compare communism to a military is crazy. That's apples and oranges. A military has to be run in the fashion it is, chain of command etc., for a reason. Otherwise, military's would be anarchy.


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[Retro Rocket]

Have you ever gotten anything "free" that was worth a crap? Me either.

A proper and diverse education is well worth it Cal, not your "dumbed down system",  I was educated broadly, partly due to the fact that I come from a young country with little history, my education, like millions of other Aussies, was diverse and international, I was also taught to question everything, why are you guys so against anything free...? You don't seem to care that it works, or has worked elsewhere, when done properly of course....
And Yes Cal, my education and my health mate, both highly significant and free {as in no out of pocket expenses} , I'm still alive due to something that was basically provided for "free", as is my ongoing care....  

[Retro Rocket]

Ah, but Retro it wasn't free. It was paid by tax income, the government just didn't bill you. I'm not opposed to higher education at all. I welcome it. I just don't see it broadly available here anymore.

I knew you'd say that, was even going to put it in brackets...   Still, its a better way of doing things....

[JWExperience]

You need a primer in reading comp. my 4th amendment statements were regarding your comment about the government having access to ANY citizens phone AFTER this ruling. Don't pick and choose what you want to understand.
The court documents also address your issues with bypassing the passcode. Again Apple could do this on their campus and destroy the backdoor. I don't see why they would share the backdoor with the world.
I've had enough fun talking to a wall. Time to get back to reality.


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[JWExperience]

I forgot to address the justice thing since you asked... Again you assuming to know how I operate and you wouldn't know justice if it slapped you in the face. Do you think the families of San Bernardino will have justice? That's what matters.


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[demon78]

Cal I agree its not free but you pay  taxes for something, I think that my taxes should go to make sure the citizens of my country are looked after medically so that they are not a danger to me because of disease  and other things. Jw as far as the big C goes you guys have to define  what it means because you toss that word off to mean any thing that is different to your system and that is sloppy thinking and we need less sloppy thinking in the world, I think you might agree on that. Any how guys I am just back from my absolutely favourite Greek restaurant a place called PAN in the Danforth area of Toronto where I never ever had any thing mediocre in the 10 or so years of going there and after Retsina, Rosemary Chicken in Phyllo pastry and Louckoumades and sundry side dishes Morpheus calls my name ever more insistently.
Bill the demon.

[Retro Rocket]

I forgot to address the justice thing since you asked... Again you assuming to know how I operate and you wouldn't know justice if it slapped you in the face. Do you think the families of San Bernardino will have justice? That's what matters.

Thats funny mate, 30,000 Americans or more are killed by other Americans with guns every year,  the terrorists don't stand a chance of equaling that appalling statistic, even on a world wide scale. You continuously bleat on about these people in San Bernardino,  Whilst I sincerely feel sorry for the families that lost loved ones in these tragic circumstances, it pales in significance when compared to a multitude of far worse statistics, none of which have led to anything like this attempt at a massive invasion of the populations privacy at all, and on the off chance that it 'might just" stop another one, I find it laughable, you can shoot each other by the thousands, but when it gets called "terrorism" out comes the fear campaign, no matter how ridiculous or unfounded it is....

Still, its a better way of doing things....

Its better for the recipient than the benefactor I'll grant you that.

I disagree, I think its a great use of our tax dollar and benefits all as it doesn't discriminate based on your wealth...

[JWExperience]

I'm sorry if I was "bleating" about the topic topic we were discussing. Would you like me to just talk about sunshine and bleached #$%*s instead. I was certainly not the one putting on the fear campaign either, I was saying the whole time to let the courts handle it and the others were saying that our privacy was being invaded by giving up the keys to the universe and hackers or the government were going to have all our data.
Another one here that needs improvement in reading comp and should mind your business down under if you can't understand what is going on.


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[dusterdude]

Cal,is your head hurting yet?that wall has to be winning

[dusterdude]

Btw,my package arrives tomorrow

[RevDoc]

Cal,is your head hurting yet?that wall has to be winning

I've taken 2 bottles of aspirin and washed it down with laughter. The pain is subsiding...

Bad Day
The next time you're having a bad day, imagine this: You're a Siamese twin.
Your brother, attached at your shoulder is gay but your not... And, you only have one ass.

Feel better? 

[BobbyR]

It is really quite simple. In public we applaud people in the Military and Law Enforcement for protecting us and our freedom by putting themselves at risk.

If we put our right to aside since not doing so places us at risk. The question is are we willing to put ourselves at risk for freedom. It would seem we should, since we ask others to do this on our behalf.

I vote for freedom and support Apple.

[Retro Rocket]

I'm sorry if I was "bleating" about the topic topic we were discussing. Would you like me to just talk about sunshine and bleached #$%*s instead. I was certainly not the one putting on the fear campaign either, I was saying the whole time to let the courts handle it and the others were saying that our privacy was being invaded by giving up the keys to the universe and hackers or the government were going to have all our data.
Another one here that needs improvement in reading comp and should mind your business down under if you can't understand what is going on.


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Its been in my experience playing sport with a lot of cops over the years that, and having cops as friends of the family, as part of your job you have authority over everyone, you assume you can do that to anyone anytime, your ability to listen and digest others information is severely lacking and you sound like an arrogant ass. Pull your head in mate, I understand, by the look of things here, far better than you do and I have quite a bit of experience in this area as well, I have friends that own large computer businesses {tech side} and have a good friend {of over 30 years} that installs spyware for Government computer systems all over the world, including your own Government mate, I have been told things that would make your hair stand on end and you'd still deny it could possibly happen, even when it is,  stop assuming that everyone else doesn't get it, we do...I'm out of this because its more fun to bang your head against a fence... You coming Cal, I promise its more fun than this...?   

[chewbacca5000]

Cal,is your head hurting yet?that wall has to be winning

I've taken 2 bottles of aspirin and washed it down with laughter. The pain is subsiding...

Bad Day
The next time you're having a bad day, imagine this: You're a Siamese twin.
Your brother, attached at your shoulder is gay but your not... And, you only have one ass.

Feel better? 

So how do you and your brother ride your cb750 on date night?

[chewbacca5000]

I guess the Iphone is the whole device on the planet without a backdoor.  Just check this out from the free software foundation.

http://www.gnu.org/proprietary/proprietary-back-doors.en.html


Personally I think a backdoor already exist in IOS and this whole thing is just publicity for apple.  The men in black already have that conversation.  Either through traditional data extraction techniques or software.

Pen and paper is much more secure that anything you type into an electronic device.  Anything I type into a phone or computer I know that the whole world could see it.

[JWExperience]

Very true chewey. Apple stands to gain the most. They make a stand on privacy now when they have done similar breaches 60-70 times in the past few years for law enforcement.


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[BobbyR]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/common-software-would-have-unlocked-san-bernardino-shooters-iphone/

WASHINGTON -- The county government that owned the iPhone in a high-profile legal battle between Apple Inc. and the Justice Department paid for but never installed a feature that would have allowed the FBI to easily and immediately unlock the phone as part of the terrorism investigation into the shootings that killed 14 people in San Bernardino, California.

If the technology, known as mobile device management, had been installed, San Bernardino officials would have been able to remotely unlock the iPhone for the FBI without the theatrics of a court battle that is now pitting digital privacy rights against national security concerns.

Play Video
DOJ enters Apple, FBI fight

The service costs $4 per month per phone.


The executives said Apple sent engineers to work with the FBI on the workaround but the effort ultimately failed. In the government's filing Friday, prosecutors said in a footnote that neither the county nor the FBI knew the password to the iCloud account and the county, in an effort to get access to information on the phone in the hours after the attack, reset the password remotely -- thereby eliminating the possibility of that workaround being successful.

[Retro Rocket]

For the ~100 time JW, Not on their latest OS they haven't. Please do try and recite the facts however much you disagree with them.

Hence the fence quote....    Apples {pun intended} and oranges....

[Terry in Australia]

Geez I bet all of the terrorist's contacts are hoping that Apple wins out, and they retain their freedom to plan more attacks against freedom loving Americans. It'd really piss the terrorists off if those commies got their way and went after them!

[demon78]

Cal that's a good emotional response but we all cede our freedom to some one else if we didn't we wouldn't live in built up area's (cities, town's, hamlets, states, provinces, countries) and we wouldn't have snow plowing, highways, trains, markets, etc. My feeling is we pay these #$%*s for something and if they are not delivering for what ever reason, they should be fired or wages cut, after all if we were working for someone and weren't doing our jobs we would be fired, so as the bosses of the whole infra structure we want value for our money paid out and if the FBI or whoever is #$%*ing about they should be put on notice the people are going to want some money back out of everyone's salary in the organization, think about the message sent and the FBI's freedom. I think all of us have missed a point, they have a responsibility to us and not necessarily a political one. Maybe we should think about  this in a different way.
Bill the demon.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Geez I bet all of the terrorist's contacts are hoping that Apple wins out, and they retain their freedom to plan more attacks against freedom loving Americans. It'd really piss the terrorists off if those commies got their way and went after them!

To live through more attacks and retain my freedom, I'll pay that price. You are welcome to cede yours, but you won't have mine.

So I can assume you did not support any provisions of the Patriot Act, yes?

[JWExperience]

Geez I bet all of the terrorist's contacts are hoping that Apple wins out, and they retain their freedom to plan more attacks against freedom loving Americans. It'd really piss the terrorists off if those commies got their way and went after them!

To live through more attacks and retain my freedom, I'll pay that price. You are welcome to cede yours, but you won't have mine.

Easy for you to say but what about the families of San Bernardino or any future losses(could involve you). You're saying those families don't have the right to a complete investigation.
With how fast technology advances, this shouldn't be treated like the end all. Some type of compromise should be found and continue developing new tech as always.
I don't want the government in my business at all but I agree with Bill, we will sacrifice certain freedoms to have others. How they are sacrificed is the bigger issue to me.
From a LE perspective, I worry about other criminals now using this current tech to hide their actions. For example, pedophiles can have all kinds of material on their encrypted devices and we can prosecute if we can't get in.

Bill Gates just came out in support of the Feds based on the court document. Hmmm.



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[Terry in Australia]

Geez I bet all of the terrorist's contacts are hoping that Apple wins out, and they retain their freedom to plan more attacks against freedom loving Americans. It'd really piss the terrorists off if those commies got their way and went after them!

To live through more attacks and retain my freedom, I'll pay that price. You are welcome to cede yours, but you won't have mine.

That's all very noble when you're not in the firing line mate, but I know you'd change your tune if your family and friends were the victims of one of these attacks and mindless red tape was protecting the attackers. Cheers, Terry.

[Duke McDukiedook]