Author Topic: CB750a performance build  (Read 3917 times)

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Offline kac3177

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CB750a performance build
« on: January 21, 2016, 08:12:36 PM »
I am preparing to build a 836 hondamatic. I am trying to find the best head/cam to use with the an automatic lower end. I intend on using round top carbs. Any suggestions? I am not going to race it, just wan street power. I used a K7 cam and head on a 76a and pd42 carbs and it greatly increased the top end. Now I'm building one of my 77's, looking for direction on a working mans budget.

kac3177, the one arm man that rides on...

1 76a
3 77a's
1 78a
Collect the whole set!
kac3177

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750a performance build
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2016, 04:07:03 AM »
with the 836 pistons, this cam will turn it into a rocket. I had a real high performance cam in it and although this 295 cam produced less power, off the mark was much quicker as it was over the quarter mile.

http://www.dynoman.net/images/engine/cams/DP/DP295Cam.jpg
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Offline Yoshimatic

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Re: CB750a performance build
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2016, 05:03:30 AM »
I have a Hondamatic with 836 kit using the Hondamatic head but with Kibblewhite valve guides and valve springs. It has F2 cam (I would love to try the DP295 though) and has port and polish work done.
Just a set of round tops and a 4into1 modified with a Yoshimura RS3 fitted into it (sounds just gorgeous).
It has heaps of torque and yet pulls real hard up high.
It's my everyday rider, ignore the bad looking upholstery on the seat (not finished yet).
1969 GL175 twin
1970 CB750 K0
1971 CL350
1975 CB750F1
1977 CB750F2
1977 CB750A (original condition)
1977 CB750A (836 Cafe Racer)
1978 CB750F3

Offline kac3177

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Re: CB750a performance build
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2016, 05:11:49 AM »
Very nice Yoshi. Does anybody have a spec guide on K motors and which cams were used? Where is the stamping on the cam so I know what I have. I just guessed when I built the 76 and got lucky. Now I have a k2 motor and I don't know anything about it spec wise.
kac3177

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: CB750a performance build
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2016, 08:04:30 AM »
Honda cams are not marked by grind. 69 - 70 and 77 - 78 K cams are the best K cams but unless you have a known virgin engine it's a crap shoot. 75 - 76 F are about the same and the 77 - 78 F are probably the best.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2016, 08:10:23 AM by Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er »
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline Cougars750F0

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Re: CB750a performance build
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2016, 09:12:04 AM »
What type of tank are you using and how did you modify it to fit the 750A frame?
1970 Honda / Yoshimura 810 with ported head, 1968  Honda CB450 5 speed European model, 1973  Triumph Bonneville 750 twin carburetor model, 1975 Honda 750F0 Super Sport, 1977 Honda 750A

Offline kac3177

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Re: CB750a performance build
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2016, 11:42:30 AM »
The only thing modified will be the engine, rest of the bike will be stock like my '76.
kac3177

Offline kac3177

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Re: CB750a performance build
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2016, 11:45:30 AM »
Is there any difference between a stock K and A heads? Curious about valve size's...
kac3177

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: CB750a performance build
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2016, 07:21:54 PM »
Same valves. The A uses the -392 head ie 75/76 F. It is NOT the earlier K head but rather the later 77/78 K head that came from the 75/76 F. ONLY the 77/78 F head had larger valves.
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline jweeks

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Re: CB750a performance build
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2016, 09:50:36 AM »
     Mid range torque is what you want to improve. That's where the automatics live on the street. Top end power doesn't get used as much. More torque comes from displacement, compression, air flow, and the elements matched for your needs. Factory clutch cams will help some; an adjustable cam gear will allow you to advance the cam for a lower rpm powerband. The cheap 836 pistons have 1 point + less compression than the more expensive ones do. A good porting job deserves better than stocker carbs. 29 mm smoothbores gives you a crisp throttle, but can't be whacked open without a bog. They also aren't very cheap to find. 32 mm CV carbs work very well, as Sam can attest. You can get Seca 750 CV carbs or 700/750 Nighthawk CV carbs at a reasonable price.(Ebay, bike junkyards, Craigslists, etc) They mount with stock K head clutch manifolds. A little hand porting will help reuse the stock head; there's a topic with pictures covering that on here. A fresh valve job is always good to do. If the bike has a lot of miles, improved horsepower will wear out what's left of the clutch packs quickly. Bearing clearances should be checked if you're going to replace the clutch pack(s) They may need replacing on a high mileage/neglected maintenance motor. Cam chains also don't last forever; they wear out over time.
     If you need a new exhaust system, a 4 into 2 into 1 pipe improves the midrange. Longer primary tubes will also help improve your midrange. Just some suggestions for your consideration.

Offline kac3177

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Re: CB750a performance build
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2016, 03:09:00 PM »
Thanks jweeks. I'm just toying around with some ideas. I am going to polish out the ports when I do the valves. I am just looking to improve the midrange and passing power. I only have one hand, not looking to race anything. Just want a comfortable cruiser. Anybody know where I can find a 77-78 F cam and maybe a head?
kac3177

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: CB750a performance build
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2016, 04:12:35 PM »
Keep in mind if you do a 77/78 F head you need to use the whole top end. Cylinders and pistons.
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline kac3177

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Re: CB750a performance build
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2016, 06:07:16 PM »
Forgot about the oil drain back differences... Good catch. Thank you.
kac3177

Offline jweeks

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Re: CB750a performance build
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2016, 06:14:15 AM »
You can sleeve the drainback case stud holes on a F head and run it on a K block, but I don't recommend it. You don't want the bigger ports, bigger combustion chambers, and slower moving air through the intake system. F heads work well for over 1,000 cc. Under that, I recommend the K heads as a better match for what you're doing. Less compression ratio with slower moving air makes Hondamatics more of a dog in the midrange with the F head. Just my opinion...;)
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 06:16:03 AM by jweeks »

Offline nixon

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Re: CB750a performance build
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2016, 02:01:21 AM »
hey, i also ride sans a left arm.. jump on Amputee Motorcycle Riders on facebook if you aint already on!
cb750a 77, cbr900rr 93 with auto clutch

Riding tip " turn in late, feeling great.  Turn in early,  feeling squirrely "

Offline kac3177

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Re: CB750a performance build
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2016, 01:24:10 PM »
Thanks for the info, your opinion is appreciated! I am probably going with the k head. Question: What is the difference between an A and a K head? I am going to compare them apples to apples when I pull the two engines apart but I am led to believe they are the same. I know the cam, carbs and pistons are different but have never done a valve/port comparison.
kac3177

Offline stikman

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Re: CB750a performance build
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2016, 10:35:14 PM »
The same valves were used in the K1-K7, 76-77 A's, and F0-F1 (Intake: 14711-300-005, Exhaust: 14721-300-005).

The same valves were used in the K8 and the 78 A (Intake: 14711-300-015 , Exhaust: 14721-300-015).

The same head was used for the K7-K8, 76-78 A's, and F0-F1 (12200-392-000).
1977 CB750A "High Horse": 836cc, mild porting, custom cam, K5 roundtops, v-stacks...
1973 CB750K D5 plunger frame chopper currently building..

Offline stikman

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Re: CB750a performance build
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2016, 10:55:32 PM »
For reference, I did the engine in my 77 CB750A on a budget (tried to at least  :P ).  I used the ebay 836 piston kit, roundtop carbs off a '75K, ported the head and cleaned up the chambers, lapped the valves, and had a custom cam ground on my stock A camshaft core.  You really shouldn't need to use any other head than your stock A head, imo.  If you do even a mild port job it should help with flow in tandem with the other changes.  The ebay 836 pistons are cheap enough, but they apparently don't allow the use of a very large cam.  An early K cam or a Webcam 41 or 41A can certainly be used with them though.  That keeps things cheap and adds displacement, valve lift, and flow.  The bigger you go from there, the more expensive it gets.

Heck, if you really want to keep it cheap and just wake up your motor some, you could get some good used stock K pistons with fresh rings, a good used K cam (any year K should still be better than the A cam), a set of roundtop carbs, and either port it or not.  That pretty well gives you the K specs besides the transmission and even saves on the machining that a big bore kit requires.

Just my thoughts.
1977 CB750A "High Horse": 836cc, mild porting, custom cam, K5 roundtops, v-stacks...
1973 CB750K D5 plunger frame chopper currently building..

Offline kac3177

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Re: CB750a performance build
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2016, 06:12:30 AM »
Thanks Stikman, I kind of figured that. The 76' A that I built, I just used K carbs jetted a little and a stock K cam in it. It widened the power band and improved the top end significantly. I'm looking for that in addition to passing power. As it stands my plan for the 77 is the 836 kit, round top carbs (jetted a little), an early K cam and I'm going to lap the valves and port the head. Any suggestions on porting the head? I am doing it on my own with a dremel tool.
kac3177

Offline stikman

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Re: CB750a performance build
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2016, 10:10:04 PM »
1977 CB750A "High Horse": 836cc, mild porting, custom cam, K5 roundtops, v-stacks...
1973 CB750K D5 plunger frame chopper currently building..