Author Topic: Strange gurgle only at slower cruise speeds  (Read 2393 times)

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Offline markreimer

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Strange gurgle only at slower cruise speeds
« on: February 03, 2016, 11:34:03 AM »
I've got an odd thing happening on my '74 cb740K. When I'm riding around 50-60km/h, throttle around the 1/4 position, the bike sounds and feels like it's gurgling. Almost as if it was on the verge of running out of fuel. I've had an awful time trying to sort it out.

Backing up:

Over the summer I rebuilt the top end of the engine - new pistons, rings, valve guides, etc. I never had this problem before the rebuild that I can remember. After the rebuild, the engine runs much better and has more power, but I've got a weird gurgle.

I'm running the stock airbox. I used to use a K&N air filter, but put an OEM one in after the rebuild after being advised the K&N would cause it to run too lean. I haven't tried swapping back.

The bike idles perfect and pulls hard through all the gears. At highway speeds, it feels and sounds perfect. I'm told it gives of a pretty gassy smell if you ride behind me though... Maybe I'm running too rich? I played around with the air mixture screws but it didn't help.

I've gone through the carbs and rebuilt them again. They have new jets and gaskets, all passage ways are crystal clear. I'm using the stock points ignition and checked the timing. It's dead on at idle, but at 3K I can't get the marks to line up perfectly. I used to use a Dyna-S system and had the gurgle then as well. The Dyna died on me so I swapped back to points. Also checked valves and cam chain tension.

Any ideas? If I smell gassy and gurgle at lower-mid throttle, perhaps I should drop the needle down a notch?

Offline flybox1

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Re: Strange gurgle only at slower cruise speeds
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2016, 11:58:35 AM »
in what rpm is this happening? 
new jets? what brand?
vacuum sync done accurately?
IIWM....i'd rule out mixture imbalance - clear tube your bowls to ensure a good fuel level, run the engine, throw in a new set of plugs, and then go replicate the "gurgling" for at least a mile, cut the engine, and pull plugs 1&4 to see color.
at 1/4 throttle, you're still in the fat of the pilot jet, but if the mixture screw is in the middle of its usable range, you might start there and adjust accordingly if you find your plugs are not showing decent color.
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
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"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline markreimer

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Re: Strange gurgle only at slower cruise speeds
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2016, 12:13:48 PM »
Happens at any rpm above about 3k or so. Brand of jets....hmm. I can't remember. I'll have to check and see. I don't think they are keyster. Yes to vacuum sync! Used a Honda 4-cyl vacuum gauge.

I dropped the float bowl level by about 1.5-2mm as I thought maybe they were too high and flooding the engine when there wasn't sufficient draw, such as at hwy speed. Didn't change anything.

Plug chop is a good idea, why didn't I think of that! Should tell me if I'm overly rich..


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Offline flybox1

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Re: Strange gurgle only at slower cruise speeds
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2016, 12:32:43 PM »
fuel level needs to be 3-4mm below the bowl gasket seam. too high or too low and it will have an effect on mixture.
did you re-jet(change size) because of your new filter? or just put in shiny new stock-sized jets?

'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline markreimer

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Re: Strange gurgle only at slower cruise speeds
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2016, 12:37:24 PM »
I'm around 4mm under gasket surface. Measured according to hondaman book. I replaced the jets with new last year before the engine rebuild as a preventative tactic. I know how hard the carbs are to get clean so the last time I really went at it I replaced a lot of stuff.


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Offline flybox1

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Re: Strange gurgle only at slower cruise speeds
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2016, 12:53:55 PM »
did you replace needles, too?
curious as to what brand carb parts you used.
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline markreimer

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Re: Strange gurgle only at slower cruise speeds
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2016, 12:56:48 PM »
Nope. I disassembled the slides and soaked them in carb cleaner before cleaning and assembly. They 'should' be original, but who knows... I'll have to look for some kind of identifier/brand.


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Offline greenjeans

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Re: Strange gurgle only at slower cruise speeds
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2016, 02:08:29 PM »
I'd try using the original Honda pilot jets or getting some new Honda pilot jets vs the keester ones.   
Yep, I'm the kid that figured out how to put things back together...eventually.

Offline markreimer

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Re: Strange gurgle only at slower cruise speeds
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2016, 08:02:25 PM »
Reviving my old carb thread because it's finally warm enough to ride again. I checked the jets in my carbs and I've got #40 pilot jets and #105 mains. I believe they are OEM Honda based on the markings. I can't see the needle position of course but I've never run them anywhere but in the middle.

I have new #35 and 40 Honda Pilot jets in my parts but as well as new Honda 110 and 112s.

Since the gurgle is occurring primarily at about 1/4 throttle I'm guessing this isn't a main jet issue. I checked the floats and they're all bang on. So, I guess the next thing is to ride till I get the gurgle, hold it for several minutes, and do a plug chop.


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Offline Don R

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Re: Strange gurgle only at slower cruise speeds
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2016, 09:20:33 PM »
    How's the exhaust? no chance of a loose baffle, packing or mice nest?
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
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Offline markreimer

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Re: Strange gurgle only at slower cruise speeds
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2016, 10:03:08 PM »
Exhaust is an unknown brand, 4-2. The baffle is a drilled cylinder, no glass pack or anything else left on it. I remember two years back after an engine rebuild, I fired it up first time and the rivit holding the baffle in went, splitting the baffle out a few meters behind the engine haha! Scared the crap outta me. I've been riding it without glass pack since I got the bike. Gurgle is a new issue since the engine rebuild was completed.


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Offline ekpent

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Re: Strange gurgle only at slower cruise speeds
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2016, 05:29:41 AM »
What sort of gas mileage are you getting ? If it were me I would run the 110 main which I think is stock and  a stock slow 40 jet,preferably both original Kehin bits. Make sure gas cap vents and fuel line is routed correctly. Do you have inline filters ?

Offline flybox1

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Re: Strange gurgle only at slower cruise speeds
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2016, 08:47:01 AM »
Honda didnt make jets, or carbs.
your jets should be stamped with the Keihin 'K' logo and the jet size.
If they are not, it will be difficult to tune the bike.
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline markreimer

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Re: Strange gurgle only at slower cruise speeds
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2016, 09:12:32 AM »
Yes sorry that was confusing. They are keihin with the K icon. I ordered them from Honda and they came in Honda branded plastic bags but are actually made by keihin as you noted.

Unsure of mileage. I'll have to check that next time I ride. I had it written somewhere, hmm.

I do not have inline filters at the moment. I used to run them but my tank is very clean and my carbs look new inside still. No sign of sediment in the petcock screen either. My filters never had stuff in them either.

Are you sure 110 is stock? My research suggested after 73 stock was 40/105. I can definitely try but my suspicion was the gurgle suggests rich, not lean. Plug chop...gotta do a plug chop!


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Offline flybox1

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Re: Strange gurgle only at slower cruise speeds
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2016, 09:21:13 AM »
no need for inline filters if you have a clean tank and the petcock filter is in good condition.

start with your idle chop.
new NGK D8EA's, and let it idle (no blipping) 4-5 minutes w a fan on the cases.
post a closeup picture of the insultor/tips.  1-2-3-4 in a row.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2016, 09:36:39 AM by flybox1 »
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline markreimer

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Re: Strange gurgle only at slower cruise speeds
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2016, 09:23:28 AM »
Ok, will do. I've run D8EA plugs for the last five years. 7 is a hotter plug, right? Probably a good idea anyway given how cold it is out here. I'll pick up a pair and start with the idle chop and report back soon.


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Offline flybox1

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Re: Strange gurgle only at slower cruise speeds
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2016, 09:35:55 AM »
No...my bad. thought for some reason you were on a 550  ::)
D8EA's are the correct plug.
above post corrected.
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline ekpent

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Re: Strange gurgle only at slower cruise speeds
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2016, 09:36:16 AM »
Sounds like your fuel delivery is good,some report problems with inline filters. According to parts lists 1974 used a 110 main up to serial number 2304500 and then a 105 after that.All the 74's I have always seemed to have a 110 in it. So do the exhaust pipes you have right now have no baffles and are basically 'straight' pipes. Spark plugs should tell a lot.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2016, 09:39:20 AM by ekpent »

Offline markreimer

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Re: Strange gurgle only at slower cruise speeds
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2016, 09:38:34 AM »
Oh, interesting. I'll check the serial then. I've got a set of D8EAs already so this'll be easy then. Nice. Looking forward to getting this narrowed down


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