Topic: Ricks rectifier/regulator

[rocks]

Hi everybody,

I finally upgraded my old rectifier and regulator with Ricks rec/reg combo on my 1975 CB750F. I went head to test if everything is working, but apparently the battery reads 15.5V around 3000rpm.

I made sure the battery was fully charged prior to testing (charged overnight).

Is it something I should worry about?  I read somewhere that if it's over 14.5 it might overwhelm the battery.

Thank you,

[Bodi]

Check the voltage on the black wire to the reg/rect with bike running and lights on. This is often rather low because of parasitic voltage drop in the harness: some is unavoidable but old and corroded connectors, fuses, and switch contacts make it worse.
The regulator tries to keep the voltage on that black wire at ~14.5VDC, assuming it's exactly battery voltage. Whatever the voltage drop is, the regulator will then be trying to maintain the battery at 14.5 + drop voltage. Over 0.5V drop is too much in my opinion.
Cleaning all the connectors and checking that the fuseholder is good (installing a blade fuse replacement would be a good idea, the original one is toast by now) would help. Some install a small relay to connect the reg/rect directly to battery "+" (fused of course) to eliminate the voltage drop affecting the battery float voltage.

[rocks]

Thanks,
I did replace all fuses with blades. How do I check the black wire? What should the voltage be at that wire?

[rocks]

I tested the voltage between the black and green wires, and the voltage was at 14.5v at 3k and up rpm. But at the battery poles was 15.5 and gets little higher.

The battery is like new. It's a superline duraboost

[Bodi]

OK, with 14.5 at the regulator and 15.5 at the battery, you've measured a 1V drop between the battery and the black wire. Some regulators are adjustable to compensate. You can add a small relay powered by that black wire now going to the reg/rect, switching power directly from the "MAIN" fuse output to the reg/rect wire. That should give you closer to true battery voltage at the regulator and solve the overvoltage.

[rocks]

Apparently Ricks R/R might be the problem. I put back the stock rec and reg, and everything was fine.

What a waste of money   

[Davidov]

What was your resting voltage (Key off) of the battery?

[rocks]

ok, I returned the Rick's Rec/Reg and they sent me a new one, but it does the same thing.
The charging is working fine with stock rec and reg. Maybe because it was adjusted or something.

Could my alternator be the issue? Coils ?
I am running out of options.

Some are suggesting a relay at black wire, what kind of relay ?

[Davidov]

The instructions that come with the Reg/Rec are very specific about your battery resting voltage (key off).
Also voltage drop from the battery + terminal to the 12v+ feed wire.
Have you gone over this yet?

[Duke McDukiedook]

Apparently Ricks R/R might be the problem. I put back the stock rec and reg, and everything was fine.

What a waste of money   

Normally these are not 'upgrades'. If your stock equipment was working fine before why change it?

[Kenzo]

I just fixed a very similar problem...

1976 CB550F, new Rick's Rect/Reg, and 3 1/2 year old Ballistic EVO2-8 Lithium battery I robbed from my dirtbike(KTM w/ electric & kickstart).

Battery was at the bare minimum resting charge voltage of 13.2v. Battery Tender Plus said it was charged. Turn on the key battery dropped to 6v and headlight dimmed to nothing. Kick it and it fired up, ~11v at idle and ~15.5v at 3K rpm...WTF?

Rather than asking here and raising angst of Lithium haters I determined it had to be the battery.

Got a Scorpion LiFePO to try out, installed it and everything perfect once again...all voltage at or near specs.

Sounds to me like you have the same problem.

Cheers,
Kenzo

[Duke McDukiedook]

What type of charger did you use for your lithium battery. Hopefully you used a lithium specific charger.

[Kenzo]

Battery was at the bare minimum resting charge voltage of 13.2v.

That doesn't make sense. It could only be over 13V if you checked it immediately after removing a charger, or shutting off the engine.

A brand new battery will have 12.6 volts, resting. Key off, engine off, no external charger, even after sitting for 45 minutes.

This is not true for lithium batteries.

What type of charger did you use for your lithium battery. Hopefully you used a lithium specific charger.

Not required from personal experience AND per manufacturers instructions.

Cheers,
Kenzo

[Kenzo]

http://www.ballisticparts.com/batteryInstruct.php

[ChopSticks]

Battery was at the bare minimum resting charge voltage of 13.2v.

That doesn't make sense. It could only be over 13V if you checked it immediately after removing a charger, or shutting off the engine.

A brand new battery will have 12.6 volts, resting. Key off, engine off, no external charger, even after sitting for 45 minutes.

This is not true for lithium batteries.


Cheers,
Kenzo

My sportster battery is 12.6 full resting, but my CB750 battery stays around 12.8 at full resting

[rocks]

Apparently Ricks R/R might be the problem. I put back the stock rec and reg, and everything was fine.

What a waste of money   

Normally these are not 'upgrades'. If your stock equipment was working fine before why change it?

Honda upgraded them why shouldn't I? I just think they better...

[rocks]

If your stock unit is working fine, then there is nothing wrong with the stock components. If you install the Ricks, and it doesn't charge, you're installing it wrong. Simple as that. Post the model number of the Ricks unit, and a picture please.

The installation is straight forward.
Yellows to yellows
Red to Red
Green to Green
Black to Black
White to White

I measured the voltage between Black and Green at the harness (Regulator disconnected) with key on, and it measured 1v drop from battery terminals.
Tried to do I quick as I could. But 1v is a lot.

Am I looking at Alternator/Stator issues?

[rocks]

If that unit came with a 6-way plug, it has a Loose WHT and a RED in the plug. Reverse those. Attach now LOOSE RED to battery POS. BLACK goes to ignition switched 12v. GREEN to chassis.

If you aren't wired this way, then the R/R isn't sending a charge back to the battery.

I am not sure what you meant with loose, but the white wire is not in the plug. The black wire in the harness is a 12v switch wire, the Red is the battery (attached to solenoid), so I did install them the way you mentioned, and that's the instructions way.

[rocks]

The WHITE wire needs to be in the plug (opposite the WHITE coming from the alternator). Your alternator should have:
3 - Yellows
1 - White
1 - Green
Also, the GRN/RED Neutral and BLU/RED Oil are in the plug.

Typically, the 10-100 model from Ricks comes with the plug oriented as such:
3 - Yellows
1- Red
1- Green
1 - Loose White
1- Loose Black
1 - Loose Green

Swapping the RED from the plug (Ricks) with the WHITE, then routing the RED to battery POS, works perfectly.

So, what model did you buy, because the picture you posted didn't allow me to see a plug?

I have 10-100 model as you described it above.
I have a loose white, black, green on the harness, so I can't put the white in the plug. 

[rocks]

The WHITE wire needs to be in the plug (opposite the WHITE coming from the alternator). Your alternator should have:
3 - Yellows
1 - White
1 - Green
Also, the GRN/RED Neutral and BLU/RED Oil are in the plug.

Typically, the 10-100 model from Ricks comes with the plug oriented as such:
3 - Yellows
1- Red
1- Green
1 - Loose White
1- Loose Black
1 - Loose Green

Swapping the RED from the plug (Ricks) with the WHITE, then routing the RED to battery POS, works perfectly.

So, what model did you buy, because the picture you posted didn't allow me to see a plug?

I have 10-100 model as you described it above.
I have a loose white, black, green on the harness, so I can't put the white in the plug.

I am wondering, can I bypass the harness and the ignition switch just for testing purposes?   

Connect the Black from reg to the battery (straight )
White to White
Both Greens (Alternator and reg) to the frame (straight)
Yellows to Yellows
Red to Red (or straight to the battery)

I just wanna see if I have any corroded connections and/or ignition switch. I cleaned as much as I could. 

[rocks]

You can. Unpin the RED. Swap the WHITE in its place. These have small "barbs" on them so you depress the barb, and pull the wire out of the plug. That RED which will now be loose, gets attached to your battery POS. The RED carries the 12vdc from the alternator.

Trust me, I've done dozens of these units the exact same way.

I think I've found the problem. It worked perfectly by bypassing the harness. Connected everything back together except the black wire that was connected straight to battery +, and it still working. Now the charge is 14.5 at any rmp. 
Now I just gonna trace the black wire and find where the issue is..

I appreciate all your help.

[rocks]

The BLACK is the sensing wire. Unless it's tied into the switched 12v current, the REG will overcharge your battery. You're only half way home. Getting a charge to the battery is necessary, controlling that charge is critical.

If you tied the BLACK to a connection that saw a 1v drop from battery actual, then the REG will overcharge thinking the battery is depleted.

I unpinned all the wires from the plug cuz all wires coming off alternator (Y,R,G,B) are loose (plug was melted while ago). So, connecting (R ->R, G->G, Y->Y) then black to battery + will cause problems? The battery is charging fine this way.
Maybe I still don't get you method of wiring.

[CB750F2]

Rocks, revisit reply No.2 by Bodi. He has described exactly what is happening and a couple of options on how to fix the problem. In your last post you said that you connected the black wire from the regulator to battery positive and the battery charged at 14.5 volts. This proves what Bodi said was correct. However you cannot leave it like that because it will slowly drain the battery when the bike is not running. Hence the need of a relay that is switched by the black wire from the harness. The link to the battery should be fused as well. I have assumed that the new regulator has no output voltage adjustment. The original regulator is adjustable and can be adjusted to compensate for the voltage drop on the black wire.
Pat

[rocks]

Where did you connect what was the loose WHITE? How about some pictures?

It should be:
From Alternator/Stator
3 Yellows
1 White
1 Green

These match exactly to the Ricks IF you swap the plug ends as it ships. This leaves:
Loose BLACK, loose RED and loose GREEN.

The RED needs a path to battery POS to deliver the charge. The GREEN needs to go to chassis GROUND. The BLACK needs to be connected to a switched 12v circuit.

If you connect BLACK to battery POS and RED to battery POS then the BLACK  will always be reading the output of the Regulator, not the status of the battery. You need to move BLACK away from the battery and read a wired circuit, after the KEY switch.

It's not really that hard...

Here are some pics

[rocks]

You're killing me... I appreciate you showing me the colors connected together, BUT what is relevant is where do those wires go?

I think I've found the problem. It worked perfectly by bypassing the harness. Connected everything back together except the black wire that was connected straight to battery +, and it still working. Now the charge is 14.5 at any rmp. 
Now I just gonna trace the black wire and find where the issue is..

So in this example, you prove my point exactly. By disconnecting BLACK the R/R is throwing maximum charge at your battery without constraint. Your alternator can produce up to 18v, and this will fry your battery immediately.

Show me pictures, or describe in detail, what wire color coming from the R/R is connected to where. Then I can help if you still need it.

Looking at the first pic, the bottom wires are R/R wires (mostly rectifier). You can also see also see White and Black wires, but not the Green (regulator).

Rectifier:
Yellows -> Yellows (Alternator)
Red -> Red/White (Starter solenoid)
Green ->Ground

Then second pic, regulator wires:
Black -> switched 12 volts
White-> White(alternator)
Green-> Ground.

Now by connecting the black from Regulator to battery +(bypassing the harness), it charges just fine.
The black wire starts from the ignition switch to front brake switch, starter switch, engine stop switch, winker relay, oil pressure light, neutral light, turn signal buzzer, horn, rear brake switch and then to the Regulator.

I am losing 1v from Ignition switch to the Regulator. All connector look good. I am just gonna tear apart all the switches and relays and see I end up.

Thanks again