Topic: Your opinion ..how does a frame kit affect the bikes value?

[Swoop]

I know for a daily runner it makes sense....but what about a restored or refreshed bike that has more value?
Just curious whether to put one on my k0

Thanks
Steve

[greenjeans]

If it were me, and on a K0, I would not touch the frame.  If it's a rider, go for it.  Investment bike - leave alone.

[Stev-o]

If you want your K0 to appreciate to a high value, dont do it.

[Swoop]

Thank you gents. 

[DH]

Yup, once you cut it, its never the same. Rider/ rat, or non stock, or anything that isn't special, go for it.

[Stev-o]

My question is how does it affect handling? 

[Davez134]

My question is how does it affect handling?

I agree with everyone's assessment about value. As far as handling, I've had a 72 750 wits and without and have noticed no difference in handling or feel. (As long as every piece that was cut is still braced afterward) Just my personal experience.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I think the frame kit will not adversely affect value of any non-restoration bike, and will add utility to the bike.

[PeWe]

For any std CB750 restored to OEM shape, the frame does not need the frame kit. Just restore and put it together. Different with a modified engine and need of lifting valve cover, head and cylinder for changes and updates.
I did it when I had to lift head and replace cyl studs. I did not want to pull engine again after a few months since mounting it. I have had good use of it.
Franks (754) kit is good when it can be done when really needed whith engine and carbs still mounted. No welding and painting

[firebane]

My issue with frame kits is the damn cost. I realize that a person is making it and between parts, labor and time that it adds up. But $200 for a frame kit is also a rather large chunk of change and if someone is skilled enough and has the tools it can be done quite easily.

Regarding value.. I echo the same thoughts... If the bike is completely original and never been touched or cut... then don't do it.

[PeWe]

200 is not much if you can avoid puliing the engine for a small job as lifting the valve cover and head 2-3 times. It's rather cheap when pulling engine will bring drain oil and fill with new and new filter. With frame kit not needed.  I pulled my engine out of the frame after I had removed, head, cylinder and cyl studs and clutch. Easy to lift engine with a strap around the case and lift it out of frame alone. I friend helped me to avoid cracking my back when lift the case up on the work bench. Much more space when upper fram tubes are off.

Before frame kit I pulled engine several times, did the job and in with it again. Frame kit for repeated work.

Wait with frame kit. Order from Frank when you need to lift the valve cover urgently.

[firebane]

200 is not much if you can avoid puliing the engine for a small job as lifting the valve cover and head 2-3 times. It's rather cheap when pulling engine will bring drain oil and fill with new and new filter. With frame kit not needed.  I pulled my engine out of the frame after I had removed, head, cylinder and cyl studs and clutch. Easy to lift engine with a strap around the case and lift it out of frame alone. I friend helped me to avoid cracking my back when lift the case up on the work bench. Much more space when upper fram tubes are off.

Before frame kit I pulled engine several times, did the job and in with it again. Frame kit for repeated work.

Wait with frame kit. Order from Frank when you need to lift the valve cover urgently.

I spoke to Frank about the frame kit and I decided to do it myself because I had to pull my valve cover badly and because of the cost I will be doing it myself.

[Bodi]

As a general rule, any modifications will reduce the value of a classic bike.
An iron clad rule - "hot rod" modifications will never increase resale value to equal their cost. On any bike.

[Retro Rocket]

My question is how does it affect handling?

Thats a good question Steve, everyone seems to be hung up on the frame cuts, with the bolted or clamped in sections, this isn't a problem, the problem lies in the cross brace that ties the 3 rails together, this is the important bit, look at a boldor or GS1000/1100 frame and see the cross bracing in this area, they were much better frames.

[Stev-o]

My question is how does it affect handling?

I agree with everyone's assessment about value. As far as handling, I've had a 72 750 wits and without and have noticed no difference in handling or feel. (As long as every piece that was cut is still braced afterward) Just my personal experience.

Good info, thanks Dave. Which kit did you use?

My question is how does it affect handling?

Thats a good question Steve, everyone seems to be hung up on the frame cuts, with the bolted or clamped in sections, this isn't a problem, the problem lies in the cross brace that ties the 3 rails together, this is the important bit, look at a boldor or GS1000/1100 frame and see the cross bracing in this area, they were much better frames.

Agreed, the GS had better frames, larger motors and more of a "sport bike" than the CB
[no offence intended!].

Will the frame twist with the kit?   I dont have much choice, my current project came to me with what I call a "shade tree kit"!



Yes, they took pipes and bolted it on. And didnt tie in in at all.

My plan is to acquire parts of another frame and install "Franks Kit".

[Retro Rocket]

My question is how does it affect handling?

I agree with everyone's assessment about value. As far as handling, I've had a 72 750 wits and without and have noticed no difference in handling or feel. (As long as every piece that was cut is still braced afterward) Just my personal experience.

Good info, thanks Dave. Which kit did you use?

My question is how does it affect handling?

Thats a good question Steve, everyone seems to be hung up on the frame cuts, with the bolted or clamped in sections, this isn't a problem, the problem lies in the cross brace that ties the 3 rails together, this is the important bit, look at a boldor or GS1000/1100 frame and see the cross bracing in this area, they were much better frames.

Agreed, the GS had better frames, larger motors and more of a "sport bike" than the CB
[no offence intended!].

Will the frame twist with the kit?   I dont have much choice, my current project came to me with what I call a "shade tree kit"!



Yes, they took pipes and bolted it on. And didnt tie in in at all.

My plan is to acquire parts of another frame and install "Franks Kit".

Go ahead and use one Steve, I'd fix the cross brace. I think, as far as using these kits on the street, you'd be hard pressed to fell any differences in handling, I think a good rider pushing very hard on a track might feel some difference but on the road, I doubt it... Its my anal retentiveness that makes me think about these things...

[Davez134]

My question is how does it affect handling?

I agree with everyone's assessment about value. As far as handling, I've had a 72 750 wits and without and have noticed no difference in handling or feel. (As long as every piece that was cut is still braced afterward) Just my personal experience.

Good info, thanks Dave. Which kit did you use?

My question is how does it affect handling?

Thats a good question Steve, everyone seems to be hung up on the frame cuts, with the bolted or clamped in sections, this isn't a problem, the problem lies in the cross brace that ties the 3 rails together, this is the important bit, look at a boldor or GS1000/1100 frame and see the cross bracing in this area, they were much better frames.

Agreed, the GS had better frames, larger motors and more of a "sport bike" than the CB
[no offence intended!].

Will the frame twist with the kit?   I dont have much choice, my current project came to me with what I call a "shade tree kit"!



Yes, they took pipes and bolted it on. And didnt tie in in at all.

My plan is to acquire parts of another frame and install "Franks Kit".

I used the Gordon Kit. Mainly because I was starting with a bare frame and am a competent welder, so it was easy for me. As stated, maintaining the triangular bracing is a must for me.

(Triangle braces not yet installed in this pic, I was just too excited to take the picture )



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stev-o]

Looks great Dave.  I've had a Gordans Kit, it was very well made.  I have Franks Kit on the shelf, so I'm going with that one. It's not a race bike, so I'm sure it will be fine.

[Davez134]

Yeah, with the right size tubing, franks kit would be an easy install. You could also get some angle steel and remake that hacked up center bracing. I'm sure it will turn out great

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Unless you are doing a Concours restoration it should NOT have a negative valuation and potentially positive but not likely.

[calj737]

Unless you are doing a Concours restoration it should NOT have a negative valuation and potentially positive but not likely.

I think Ed Morris would refute that, Jerry. With all the work he put in on his, I believe he told me he had a buyer for his price, until the buyer realized a frame kit was installed. Deal off completely at that point. Restoration= No kit. Daily Driver=Do what you please. The kit will definitely damage the value of a restoration. But they are a great asset to bikes you intend to own, use, and service.

And, making a frame kit takes a fair bit of time to do it properly. $200 is pretty reasonable unless you have the skills and machinery to do them yourself.

[seanbarney41]

Ironically, this chopper build thread, provides some insight into why I think a frame kit of any kind is always a bad idea (except perhaps for a drag race only bike).  Its a really cool thread anyway, so I will link the pertinent page for your perusal...
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,68952.75.html

[BPellerine]

Ironically, this chopper build thread, provides some insight into why I think a frame kit of any kind is always a bad idea (except perhaps for a drag race only bike).  Its a really cool thread anyway, so I will link the pertinent page for your perusal...
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,68952.75.html

sean,I read that build thread,and one must remember that the front tubes were cut therefore making the rear appear really weak,I am not advocating anyone taking the top rails out,but I drove my bike for awhile wihtout top rails and no real diff while riding at legal speeds,if you were putting a lot of side pressure on the frame it would be flexable I think.a frame kit would at least be as strong as the original if done right but the resto guys do not like that stuff at all.billp

[seanbarney41]

Ironically, this chopper build thread, provides some insight into why I think a frame kit of any kind is always a bad idea (except perhaps for a drag race only bike).  Its a really cool thread anyway, so I will link the pertinent page for your perusal...
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,68952.75.html

sean,I read that build thread,and one must remember that the front tubes were cut therefore making the rear appear really weak,I am not advocating anyone taking the top rails out,but I drove my bike for awhile wihtout top rails and no real diff while riding at legal speeds,if you were putting a lot of side pressure on the frame it would be flexable I think.a frame kit would at least be as strong as the original if done right but the resto guys do not like that stuff at all.billp

Your probably right, but I still ain't buying it.

[mystic_1]

Sean I'm guessing you're referring to my comments in the following post:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,68952.msg1783791.html#msg1783791

Just to expound a but more about the blasphemy I had just conducted upon my frame, the point where the main backbone tube meets the cross brace at the front of the seat, is all just made of sheet metal.  There are two pieces that form this joint, an upper and a lower plate, which are shaped around the auxiliary backbone rails and the main backbone end, then welded in place.  This is what was bending when I was doing the above, you'll probably be able to see the deflection in these pieces in later pics.

And this is the main problem with cutting out the auxiliary backbone rails - they're not really "auxiliary."

They are, in fact, far far stronger than the way the main backbone tube is "secured" at its end!!!

When you remove these, the only thing holding the backbone together is the sheet metal shape described above.  Most of the bottom plate isn't even there, there's large ventilation openings down there to keep water from accumulating inside the gusset.

Go on out to your bike and knock on these pieces with your knuckles, and then tell me if that's the only thing you'd like to have holding your steering head in place.

Me neither.

mystic_1

I have definitely come to believe that the side rails in the backbone contribute a significant percentage of the backbone's strength.  Without them, the rear of the backbone tube is only held in place by the sheet metal gussets, not a particularly strong or rigid joint IMHO.  That's why I welded mine back in after the changes, and I'm betting (hoping ) that it's at least as rigid as stock up there again. 

I think with the bolted in frame kits you're loosing some rigidity since a bolted connection is rarely as rigid as a welded connection, at least not in all planes of force.  How much weaker than stock is it?  I think that's impossible to say without some pretty serious maths.

mystic_1