Topic: Modern 600cc vs a SOHC

[rotortiller]

If you want old, crusty, and some of that fast in the seat feel- get a vintage 2 stroke.

rt

[70CB750]

70CB750 - I'm not sure what sprocket combo I am running but I'm guessing it's stock.

Count teeth and you will know.  I run - and I am not the only one here - 17/48 for better acceleration, while 18/48 is recommended for long rides such as touring.

[lrutt]

You just need more than one bike. If you want to go fast get on the 600 supersport. But if you really want to enjoy the ride and get a lot of thumbs up, ride the old bike

I have several old bikes and wouldn't trade them for anything. My wife might, but not me. Although she stole my 89 Hawk GT for her own

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Thanks for bursting that bubble guys.... I felt my 750 (albeit a lightly hot roded 836) was a pretty quick bike! I figured a 600 was a lot of revs and HP but not so much torque also with a really tall gear set compared to a 750. While the 750 is more even between torque and HP with similar torque to a 600 and  nice useable short gearing. All that being said I figured it might resemble a race to 60-80 miles an hour then the 600 would walk away

At the end of the day I would really like to try out some bigger bikes, when summer comes and the Honda Test rides starts up i would love to try the CBR650R, CBR600RR, VFR800, maybe even a liter bike... (doubt Im ready for that)

My 836 is also upgraded and makes much more torque and hp, compared to my stock 550.  Then I get on a modern RC51 V-Twin Superbike and it's like a freight train.  That thing pulls away from modern supersport 600s after an initial lead off the line. And thankfully, the moderns brake much better too!

[socal1200r]

No contest with the performance capabilities of a modern 600 against a SOHC.  However, with that being said, if you were to line up most modern 600 sportbikes with their graphics removed, they'd all look the same to the untrained eye.  The SOHCs definitely stand out in the modern sportbike crowd, that's for sure, just don't expect to keep up with them in the twisties (or in a straight line for that matter). 

But there is something to be said for an SOHC getting on the pipe!  Here's a short video of my CB650 with a 4-1...

[ofreen]

I always thought that's just how these old bikes are but when I searched online I hear of folks saying how fast they are and some say they're faster than the modern 600CC's.

It is like my buddy who talks about how fast his old Matchless was.  I used to razz him about it when he'd bring it up, telling him he was losing his marbles, but what the hell, he enjoys reminiscing about the old iron.

If you want to keep from getting really discouraged, avoid drag racing one of the current econo boxes on your SOHC4.

[brewsky]

 
  it's never a "I better hold on" kind of feeling (which at times I'm glad because it brakes like I think a 40 year old bike would).

 

Some Armor-All on the seat, ease it up to 7K and whack it open.....should do the trick!

Note, I have NEVER done this myself, just heard about it!

[70CB750]

I can vouch for armorall, or whatever the vinyl treatment was.  First ride on a new to me original seat and I almost flew over at the first stop 

[PeWe]

Check if the bike is too lean jetted and/or too retarded ignition
You can't drive faster than 150kmh in the city anyway!
Check Moto Guzzis models that look very cool but not many hp.

[DH]

Concerning the "VS." factor.. Something that's forgotten sometimes is that an SOHC4 was designed mainly as a touring bike, but it was versatile. The universal japanese motorcycle. The 600, not so much. There aren't many 600s that make good touring bikes, unless you don't mind carrying all your belongings in a back pack, and leave the better half at home. And you'll need to get used to your spine acting as a crane for long periods. The new 600's don't lend themseves well to improvements in many other areas other than speed. It's what they were designed for.  JMHO after reviewing

[flybox1]

I can vouch for armorall, or whatever the vinyl treatment was.  First ride on a new to me original seat and I almost flew over at the first stop 

+3
I found you gotta squeeze the seat really tight 

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

How about a brat seat with Armor All? 

[Desert-SOHC]

Some Armor-All on the seat, ease it up to 7K and whack it open.....should do the trick!

Note, I have NEVER done this myself, just heard about it!

On a K8 with a freshly waxed tank......its right into the bars when you hit the brakes..

[mystic_1]

Something that's forgotten sometimes is that an SOHC4 was designed mainly as a touring bike, but it was versatile. The universal japanese motorcycle.

This exactly.  In fact, the SOHC4 was one of the bikes that helped coin the phrase UJM. 

These were totally designed as all-around utility bikes.  They were meant to be commuter bikes, touring bikes, but also appealing to the sporty performance crowd at the same time.  On the CB750 it was assumed you'd have a passenger a lot of the time, so there's plenty of seat for them and reasonable pegs, as well as two helmet hooks under the seat, not to mention the grab bar etc.  On a modern 600 sportbike, the passenger is an afterthought, tiny seat tiny pegs, and a lot are simply one-seaters altogether.

A SOHC is a street bike that can be turned into a race bike.
A "modern 600" is a race bike that gets driven on the street.

It's like comparing apples to screwdrivers.

mystic_1

[DH]

Something that's forgotten sometimes is that an SOHC4 was designed mainly as a touring bike, but it was versatile. The universal japanese motorcycle.

This exactly.  In fact, the SOHC4 was one of the bikes that helped coin the phrase UJM. 

These were totally designed as all-around utility bikes.  They were meant to be commuter bikes, touring bikes, but also appealing to the sporty performance crowd at the same time.  On the CB750 it was assumed you'd have a passenger a lot of the time, so there's plenty of seat for them and reasonable pegs, as well as two helmet hooks under the seat, not to mention the grab bar etc.  On a modern 600 sportbike, the passenger is an afterthought, tiny seat tiny pegs, and a lot are simply one-seaters altogether.

A SOHC is a street bike that can be turned into a race bike.
A "modern 600" is a race bike that gets driven on the street.

It's like comparing apples to screwdrivers.

mystic_1

+1...and seems like the sohc stands up pretty well after all, when viewed like that. even if you do compare them.

[Desert-SOHC]

My 78 "way back when it was new" was setup for naked touring. No screen or fairing, lowered about an inch, aftermarket touring forks and shocks, re-geared to a 2.23 final drive, with a rack/backrest, chrome 3-point crashbars with highway pegs was an awesome street bike. Smooth and fast on the highway, I went coast to coast a few times on it.

[dhall57]

The latter part of WWII the USA had the P51 Mustang. It was the elite of the piston driven fighters of that time. The fastest, most advanced, etc, etc. nothing could touch it. But when the jet age came about in the Korean war it was considered slow,obsolete and out dated. Time and technology moves on just like with the CB750, they are great bikes and set new standards when they came out in 1969 but comparing them to modern bikes as far power and speed is not a fair comparison.

[Terry in Australia]

I have to laugh inwardly when I see the "UJM" acronym described as a positive, waxing lyrical about the versatility of the "Universal Japanese Motorcycle".

In fact it was an insult, written by a journalist who was lamenting the demise of any form of uniqueness coming out of  Japan. By the late 1970's, all the "Big 4" (Honda Kawasaki Yamaha and Suzuki) road bikes looked pretty much the same, both on the spec sheets, and in the showrooms.

While Europe was producing all manner of different configurations back then, the standard "UJM" was a 1000/1100cc across the frame 4, with DOHC and twin front disc brakes. Interestingly, while the Japanese manufacturers have occasionally deviated from that blueprint over the last 30 years or so, it's still pretty much the standard for their big road bikes. Cheers, Terry.

[GV1390]

No comparison!

+1

[mystic_1]

I don't know that the UJM thing is either positive or negative though, Terri.  I mean, sure, it was definitely not intended as a positive moniker, but I think really it just reflects something that's an endemic part of the economics of scale, large industries tend to eventually evolve designs that appeal to the widest possible market with the least investment, and as a result you get a lot of convergent evolution so to speak.

"Hey, that idea works, let's do that some more!"

You see this in a lot of places, Hollywood "blockbuster" movies, "econobox" cars, or even "most cars look exactly alike now", large chain "theme" restaurants (Outback, mate? )and so forth.

That's not to say that these are not good movies, or these are bad cars, or #$%*ty restaurants (ok maybe they are) but it's just a sign that they were designed for totally different purposes than, say, an art house film or a Lotus.

mystic_1

[Steve_K]

I have toured on a CB550,a Honda CBR600, a Kawi 600R, a SV1000S, a SV650S, a 900 SS Ducati, a Honda VFR and did 300 to 400 miles.  Touring with newer bikes was much better on my body. Note: the CB550 time, I was in my 20's.
The best one for me was the 92 VFR, I let that one get away!
Steve

[DH]

I just used the term UJM because of what I remember was happening on the street at the time. Guys adding long forks, fairings
all different aftermarket parts. saddle bags, different exhausts, big bore kits, wheels, etc etc. All intended to take the bike in the owner's intended direction. The sohcs tended to lend themselves well to it. I wasn't aware of where the expression came from tho.. but it doesn't matter any more, because the factories responded and now build more purpose oriented bikes. No matter what modern category an sohc4 is put into against (or VS.)most any new bike, it's gonna lose. But an sohc4 has one ingredient that nothing can take away from it. Appeal.". It may be out of fasion or out of date, but appeal will never go away till people stop looking. and its the only area where an sohc4 can compete VS. anything.
 MHO of course.
 Hope that makes sense. Sorry for rambling on

[Terry in Australia]

No problem DH. The SOHC4's did go out of fashion for awhile, and like it or not, we can thank Carpy for pretty much single handedly re-creating the whole Cafe Racer fashion in the late 1990's, and throwing a spotlight back on our beloved bikes.

Luckily a lot of guys prefer their CB's "Au Naturel", so there are a lot of magnificent restored bikes, along with some great resto-modded CB's, and even some great survivors out there, and not all have been hacked into Carpy's vision.

It does piss me off that I now have to pay good money for CB750's after paying less than a dollar per cc for them for so long, (I bought my running K1 and a complete K0 for spares for $300 in 1981, whereas I just paid $4000 for my latest K1 project, which is totally disassembled, and will need a lot of love) but that's the way with fashions, they artificially increase the price of these things.

The flip side of course is that there's very little interest at the moment in 1990's and early 2000 bikes, so you can find some incredible bargains out there for way less than you'll pay for one of our bikes, so buy a cheap modern bike for a daily rider, and keep your classic SOHC4 for special occasions............    

[Retro Rocket]

Yep,  had a deal, in the early 80's, with a Brisbane shop {Kawasaki} to take all their trade in CB750's, we paid $300 each for them, but had to take them no matter what shape they were in, most were completely fine and just needed a tidy up, bought over 20 bikes off them before moving to Sydney, wish it was that easy now...

[PeWe]

An old CB750 give a nice feeling when driving. Acceleration and speed cover the useful and fun speed range when driving on normal roads. Most of the roads here are not safe after 200 kmh anyway. My car is faster then my tuned CB750. Car speedo max 240kmh - 5%, checked with GPS, ~225kmh.
My bike is fun and has enough power and has been up to 210kmh max, maybe real 205kmh. I checked the speedo at 70kmh and it was rather close
But, I can not explain why I love to spend additional $8000-9000  to get a few horses more!! TMR carbs, 5mm valve kit, big bore kit. Ultra crank w carillos, head work, HD prim chains, restore drive hubs.....+ plenty of small parts labeled HONDA. Upon this 4-4 HM300 replica exhaust, NOS fenders, seat, new brake disks for dual.....
I could get a new powerful bike for that or almost new very powerful bike. I get som money back on my insurance that is almost 0, $75 US/year. Full ensurance very cheap for a classic bike with an old classic owner. An R1 cost probably $2000-3000/year

All bikers can find their own nice feeling that is more than hp and torque