Topic: Brembo Caliper P108 Blueprint

[FunJimmy]

Click on the link and download the drawing. Took me almost two minutes to find it. Expensive CNC equipment clearly doesn't replace the ability to sleuth the Internet.

https://www.apracing.com/product_details/motorcycle/brake_calipers/solo_and_classic_machines_plus_sidecar_2_piston_caliper/cp2696-38e0.aspx

Well ain't that great but it kinda shoots kmb69's paranoid liability concerns all to he!!

I suspect the real reason they don't publish the data is related to product liability. Brakes ARE KINDA IMPORTANT regarding safety. Brembo designs their brake systems to replace a specific application and they probably carry product liability insurance for same. They have absolutely NO CONTROL of the customized application of their product. Publishing even the installation template would necessarily INVOLVE them in "OUTLAW" applications which may or may not be of sufficient design and the resulting safety or lack there of. Hence they are making every attempt to avoid/prevent any complicity in any frivolous legal implication resulting from some Moron's misapplication of their product.

Its not Brembo Jim..?  Also, why use the word "paranoid" to justify your  post..? Cal basically said exactly the same thing, It seems you've never heard of "intellectual property" or simply don't understand it....   And by the way, that link is not a "blueprint"....  Try again...

Mick,

There are literally hundreds of manufactures that make available specific technical data to facilitate the integration of their products. Brembo (or any other producer) doesn't have to make public their entire vault of "intellectual property" or R&D info to facilitate down stream manufactures needs. Based on your logic, Intel would simply design and produce micro processors and the rest of the computer industry would have to figure out how they work and how to optimize them. Not an intelligent marketing strategy, but to each their own I guess.

[scottly]

No, I'm not over thinking it, I just have the tools to make it perfect.

Yes, you may be over-thinking it; getting to .0002" tolerance with a .035" clearance mounting hole is a waste of time. While you are waiting for the caliper, check out the actual tolerances on stock Honda brake parts.

[Artracing]

I ended up getting a print. It does match the AP caliper mounting but there is a slight difference relative to disc diameter, but only a few MM.
Its interesting they are copies for most part. Thanks Slikwilli, that was interesting. I wasn't aware of that.

My bracket is now designed with my cheap CAD system and I'll cut it tomorrow on my cheap CNC.

Thanks all for the help. I asked for a print and got way more then I bargained for.





 

[Artracing]

Its amazing they create a product to sell and you have to reverse engineer it. Go figure

Please don't take this harshly, but, do you honestly think a company should invest significant time and money into designing, testing and producing products for sale and then turn about and publish the design data for them? This would enable anyone to recreate their products and eliminate or at least, greatly reduce their sales. Of course you'll have to reverse engineer it. That's exactly why they make it so difficult. This forces people to at least buy 1 of their products before they siphon off their hard work.

Last time I looked, most companies like Brembo weren't in the business of "share-ware".

Not having the caliper in my hand, I only needed the mounting hole diameter, hole spacing and hole offset relative to disc diameter. That is all Brembo needs to supply for anyone to adapt their caliper to ANYTHING. I think it would be good marketing, where anyone could implement their product into a prototype, where they could end being the OEM. This is exactly how Bimota started.

 
 

[kmb69]

.....
Thanks all for the help. I asked for a print and got way more then I bargained for.

Happens that way sometimes. I removed my cheap shot post as it was undeserved.
Probably should have had a couple of drinks to settle out prior to reading the forum. 

Good luck with the caliper upgrade.

[slikwilli420]

Everyone on here can be a crotchety old bastard sometimes but I know that I am watching your build with great excitement and that everyone really is here to help.

[SoyBoySigh]

It's interesting to note how so many brands/marques built calipers with the same specs etc, but when you wrap your head around one simple fact it's kinda silly to marvel at their "cooperation" - They were all building calipers for ITALIAN BIKES - specifically Ducks & Geese, 'cause those are the models for which they expected an affluent clientele and some well established interest in racing, improving, etc etc.

What I'D like to know, is what all folks expected to improve - by replacing a caliper only & leaving the same size of rotors with no increase in diameter etc. I mean, what all did you get out of these calipers, over the bone-stock Brembo units? Bigger/smaller pistons? More pad contact area, or less perhaps?

Personally, I feel we're better off with HONDA stuff, the OEM Nissin calipers, Comstar wheels etc (albeit with some Akront "NERVI" rims to lighten and widen 'em etc) where we've got a whole SCHWACK of stuff to play mix-&-match with.

I realize the AP Lockheed calipers are de rigueur in endurance racing, and that the Brembo P08's are even correct for the '76 RCB and it's ilk - but I don't want to "sully" my ride with a bunch of European stuff (aside from the Akront, Super-Akront, & Borrani rims ha-ha) I'd really rather muck about with what's already in the Honda tool-kit/boxatricks. I even feel a little disingenuous sticking this Duck Bevel-Bubble fairing on it, might just have to ditch it and find some RCB/RS1000 replica bodywork for it. Or at least the Magni-Honda MH2 bubble would be a LITTLE closer to home? Whatever.

If there's anything I lust after from the Brembo catalogue it's the Cast-Iron material which some of those rotors were made from. However, I'd much prefer if they be made to suit the OEM Honda carriers etc.

If there's suspension tech which I lust after, well - I've got to confess some of those quick release Forca d'Italia units seem pretty damn cool. But if they ain't got no TRAC anti-dive they just don't cut it! Colour me Honda red, through & through. Well, more like Honda Candy Blue-Green, Candy Red, Candy Gold - and despite being a DOHC fan, definitely not a fan of the Yankee Doodle Dandy paint schemes from the '80s Honda photo album. Still - in a word, Honda RED. "Big Red", like the cinnamon chewing-gum....

If I had my druthers, it'd be some NS500 or NSR500 43mm TRAC anti-dive forks, but to tell the truth I'm not that interested in the rest - well, okay the NS500 yeah, but not the too-smoke.  And I love me some backbone frames, perimeter frames just spell out modern crotch-rocket in no uncertain terms. But yeah - total Unobtainium, so I'm hoping to whip up some kind of replica, from 41mm GL1500 forks as a back-up plan, but ideally two right-hand legs from ST1100-ABS which are both 43mm and TRAC anti-dive.

Now you wanna talk about complicated caliper hangers? How about a pivoting TRAC type hanger, which also suits floating single-sided calipers, AND which would up-size the rotors from 296mm to 316mm -

Anybody wanna make a set for me?

I'm really keen on upgrading my fork and rotors, but I want it to appear at least somewhat period-correct. Sure, it'd be far simpler to do the CBR fork-swap like everybody and their dawg is doing these days. But if this TRAC thing works out, it would be the beefiest TRAC fork on a street-bike ANYWHERE.

I suppose it's an expensive extravagance. But I suspect there are plenty of other DOHC-4, Goldwing, & VF/VFR enthusiasts who could see a use for a set-up like that?

Well whatever - I just wanted to point out the obviousness of all these calipers fitting the same stuff. It's a by-product of so many Italian bikes using the same brakes, and their popularity with "proddie-racers".

-S.

[calj737]

Not having the caliper in my hand, I only needed the mounting hole diameter, hole spacing and hole offset relative to disc diameter. That is all Brembo needs to supply for anyone to adapt their caliper to ANYTHING. I think it would be good marketing, where anyone could implement their product into a prototype, where they could end being the OEM. This is exactly how Bimota started.

But Brembo is an aftermarket company that makes "upgraded" systems to mate to stock applications. So they actually use stock brackets (in many circumstances) to mount their products to. Quite a bit different than your approach I think. As for Bimota, well they designed a frame to fix a stock bike's shortcomings due to race knowledge. Again, used stock geometry (of a motor) and created designed applications to it. I'd hardly ever consider Bimota (who really only ever uses stock motors to fit into their upgraded designs) a comparable firm to Brembo. Brembo makes their products fit stock, not the other way around.

[simon#42]

TRAC was a dreadful idea , the first thing people who raced them did was junk it . the works teams where not allowed to remove it but there were parts supplied to disable it .
at that time all the manufacturers had some type of anti dive , non of them worked but because they were on the road bike the racers had to have it , great in theory but not so
good if you hit a bump while braking hard .

[Artracing]

This should do it. Need to add bushings and heli-coils and that should do it.
For the record P108 bolts a 10MM on a 88.9mm pitch

[slikwilli420]

Caliper hanger looks great. Almost exactly like the first one I designed for my bike to use an AP caliper.

[simon#42]

This should do it. Need to add bushings and heli-coils and that should do it.
For the record P108 bolts a 10MM on a 88.9mm pitch

i think you will find the pitch is three and a half inches

[Artracing]

This should do it. Need to add bushings and heli-coils and that should do it.
For the record P108 bolts a 10MM on a 88.9mm pitch

i think you will find the pitch is three and a half inches

Yes you are correct. 88.9 is what is called out on the Brembo print.
88.9MM = 3.499993 inches 

[simon#42]

i always work in metric these days but it is surprising how many things are still imperial . brembo used the lockheed spacing which being british is imperial .
bracket looks good by the way , am enjoying your build thread .  still wondering how you are going to do the oil tank though !

[Artracing]

i always work in metric these days but it is surprising how many things are still imperial . brembo used the lockheed spacing which being british is imperial .
bracket looks good by the way , am enjoying your build thread .  still wondering how you are going to do the oil tank though !

Oil Tank,  I have everything nailed down but the oil tank. Still up in the air about it.
I'm leaning towards a inner fender combo. A little English wheel work could  make a thick inner fender.
Its on the bottom of the list right now. I'll show some photos tomorrow over on the build on what I'm finishing tomorrow.

Rob

[Retro Rocket]

i always work in metric these days but it is surprising how many things are still imperial . brembo used the lockheed spacing which being british is imperial .
bracket looks good by the way , am enjoying your build thread .  still wondering how you are going to do the oil tank though !

Oil Tank,  I have everything nailed down but the oil tank. Still up in the air about it.
I'm leaning towards a inner fender combo. A little English wheel work could  make a thick inner fender.
Its on the bottom of the list right now. I'll show some photos tomorrow over on the build on what I'm finishing tomorrow.

Rob

If you aren't trying to replicate the Bimota tank on the front of the engine, how about this one, scroll down about 3/4 the way down the page, Oil tank /inner rear guard..?

http://www.airtech-streamlining.com/hondaz/CB750SOHC1969-77.htm

[simon#42]

the oil tank is one of the main features of the bike , no one who has built a replica hb1 has ever managed to make one , while not essential to make a good bike
it would separate you from the rest if you could crack it . there would also be good money in selling them . if i was doing one i would cast it , having access to an original
would be ideal but as that is going to be almost impossible i would make a wood former . there are plenty of pictures of them around , get someone good with wood to carve a replica
then use that for your pattern . i have done this before with two stroke cylinders , yokes , water pump and primary covers and i works well .
to answer your next question ....... no i don't want to make one !
i am not trying to have a go at your build am just throwing some ideas in , good luck which ever way you decide to go .

[Artracing]

the oil tank is one of the main features of the bike , no one who has built a replica hb1 has ever managed to make one , while not essential to make a good bike
it would separate you from the rest if you could crack it . there would also be good money in selling them . if i was doing one i would cast it , having access to an original
would be ideal but as that is going to be almost impossible i would make a wood former . there are plenty of pictures of them around , get someone good with wood to carve a replica
then use that for your pattern . i have done this before with two stroke cylinders , yokes , water pump and primary covers and i works well .
to answer your next question ....... no i don't want to make one !
i am not trying to have a go at your build am just throwing some ideas in , good luck which ever way you decide to go .

Yes, I mentioned that in the Bimota thread. It would be neat, but would be  a huge costly undertaking, but it is on the table, if we have a future.
Jump in the other thread if you like.
Getting a tank to copy right now is million to one.

Rob
 

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I think there's a blueprint on the Downloads tab of the AP Racing page.  I have a set of those calipers.

[Artracing]

I thought I would finalize this thread with finished product

[turboguzzi]

neat. so did you ended up waiting to the actual caliper or worked from drawings off the internet?   

[754]

 I have the same caliper off an Indian, do they stop as good as the older or AP ones ?

[Artracing]

I have the same caliper off an Indian, do they stop as good as the older or AP ones ?

Have not used it yet. Same one on Ducati I believe.