Author Topic: Trouble tuning this old 500  (Read 3753 times)

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Offline tennesseebreeze

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Re: Trouble tuning this old 500
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2016, 11:09:58 AM »
Can you tell me how the advancer fails and how to check it? The manual basically says to check for spring tension. Any other things I should check?
'79 CB750F, '73 CB500K2, '78 CB400A, '71 CL100

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Trouble tuning this old 500
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2016, 11:25:54 AM »
Quote
Can you tell me how the advancer fails and how to check it? The manual basically says to check for spring tension. Any other things I should check?
It's done by pointing a strobe towards the marks and gradually give more throttle. Ignition should be fully advanced around 2500 rpm. If an advancer is very old, sometimes the grease in between has thus hardened that the advancer fails to move correctly. Some report about springs that have become sloppy but I have not encountered this yet. If you ever disassemble the advancer to clean and lube, make sure you assemble correctly. There is a tiny carve in the rim that has to be opposite the hole. It's shown in the white circles in the pic below.




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Offline tennesseebreeze

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Re: Trouble tuning this old 500
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2016, 11:35:40 AM »
Thanks so much. I'll check this out.
'79 CB750F, '73 CB500K2, '78 CB400A, '71 CL100

Offline Bootsey

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Re: Trouble tuning this old 500
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2016, 03:25:47 PM »
As far as the ignition goes, I installed new points and adjusted them.

Out of interest, what brand points did you install? Daichi brand components don't seem to have a good reputation reliability & tuning wise.

Offline tennesseebreeze

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Re: Trouble tuning this old 500
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2016, 05:30:09 AM »
They are Daichi. I hadn't heard that they weren't reliable.
'79 CB750F, '73 CB500K2, '78 CB400A, '71 CL100

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Trouble tuning this old 500
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2016, 08:10:48 AM »
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They are Daichi. I hadn't heard that they weren't reliable.
Depends. Daiichi breakerpoints are traded by practically all SOHC parts traders here in Europe. I don't have experience with them myself but I can't believe they're that bad, unless they're Chinese copies of the Japanese Daiichi. Do not despair. Try to set gap and timing with them and see how the bike runs.
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Offline jonda500

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Re: Trouble tuning this old 500
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2016, 05:52:35 PM »
Before I'd read all the warnings about them, I bought the super cheap ($15) daiichi points, condensers and timing plate for my 550F - I have over 5000 trouble free kilometres on them now!
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Offline Gene

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Re: Trouble tuning this old 500
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2016, 08:01:01 PM »
Before I'd read all the warnings about them, I bought the super cheap ($15) daiichi points, condensers and timing plate for my 550F - I have over 5000 trouble free kilometres on them now!
John

I have to say, I have the "crap" daiichi points on my 360 and they've been fine for 4 years.  I do have a set for the 550, been hesitant to install, but I may just do it anyway - see what happens.  Throw caution to the wind.
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Offline tennesseebreeze

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Re: Trouble tuning this old 500
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2016, 08:33:06 AM »
I'm convinced I have a carburation issue. I fired it up last night and she ran best at half choke. I was able to ride it up the road about half a mile and back. It wasn't running well, but had power. If I open the choke plates all the way, the bike dies. If I close them all the way, it dies. So giving it less air makes it run better. That indicates a lean condition right? Less air means more fuel in the mix. Question is, what do I adjust to get it right. Adjust the mix screws first? Lift the needles one notch? Melt the carbs down and make a grave marker in memoriam?

A friend of mine said he's absolutely sure I have a clogged jet. But I realize now this was basically the condition I was experiencing when I had the aftermarket jets in as now with the used OEM jets. I know it's still possible, but the carbs have been gone over and over. So Idk.
'79 CB750F, '73 CB500K2, '78 CB400A, '71 CL100

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Trouble tuning this old 500
« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2016, 09:23:52 AM »
You mentioned that you replaced the carb "needles". In my experience (rebuilding hundreds of these carbs), there are NO aftermarket needles that have a correct taper, rather they are all dead lean. If you can find your original Keihin needles, maybe put those back in, as they start working right where your "bog" is appearing, at about 1/4 throttle.

Another thing I don't see in the notes above: have you changed the O-rings in those castings that bolts the carbs onto the head? They are hard like plastic now, and leak vacuum badly. Almost every single 500/550/350F/400F I see nowadays has this vacuum leak issue. On the 500, this O-ring is the same size as the ones in the valve adjuster caps.

Daiichi points: there are 2 types out there. One seems somewhat acceptable, those made in Japan. The ones made in China can very seldom be timed anywhere close to the timing marks, as their geometry is off by about 1/2 mm between the pivot dowel and the rubbing foot. I made some of the Chinese ones work for a wile by mangling the rocking arm with needlenose pliers so the contacts actually met at an angle (but was using my Transistor Ignition, which made this acceptable current-wise) to get the timing right. Eventually this caused much pivot wear, and in just 6000 miles I had to retire them.

Don't suppose the exhaust system is causing this trouble: it is not, and can not. The exhaust efficiency of the exhaust valve in this particular engine has FAR more effect than the pipe. The air filter is another story: if you have a foam-sock type, remove it while trying to get it running for now. They are too restrictive for the Fours, and cause many issues: while the engine can eventually be tuned to run with them, they don't flow well enough to breathe easily. They are good for lawnmowers and other 1-cylinder engines, if big enough, but not for 4-cylinder types (or V-8 engines, either...). The K&N filter is the very best, paper next best, pods the worst possible solution.
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Offline tennesseebreeze

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Re: Trouble tuning this old 500
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2016, 09:36:25 AM »
Thank you Hondaman for commenting here. Yes indeed I replaced those o-rings between the intake castings and the engine. I also replaced the carb boots with brand new OEM rubber. The airbox has pliable, nice rubber boots and I'm running a brand new paper filter. I did replace the needles with aftermarket, but still have the original ones. I'll put those back in posthaste. If I remember correctly this requires pulling the carbs apart to retrieve them. What needle position do you recommend? Third down, like the stock setting?
'79 CB750F, '73 CB500K2, '78 CB400A, '71 CL100

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Trouble tuning this old 500
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2016, 07:06:46 PM »
Thank you Hondaman for commenting here. Yes indeed I replaced those o-rings between the intake castings and the engine. I also replaced the carb boots with brand new OEM rubber. The airbox has pliable, nice rubber boots and I'm running a brand new paper filter. I did replace the needles with aftermarket, but still have the original ones. I'll put those back in posthaste. If I remember correctly this requires pulling the carbs apart to retrieve them. What needle position do you recommend? Third down, like the stock setting?

Yes, stock setting. When you look at the needles that are now in the carbs, there should be a tiny number engraved around the tops of them. If  they are Keihin, it will start with their "K", and anything else is, frankly, suspect these days. They don't wear out: I chuck them in a drill and turn them with Scotchbrite pinched over them to make them new again.
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
Link to My CB500/CB550 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?sortBy=RELEVANCE&page=1&q=my+cb550+book&pageSize=10&adult_audience_rating=00
Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).