Topic: After market exhausts

[Suke]

Hello all,
I'm new to this website and to the whole motorcycle community, but already loving it from what I've experienced so far. I got a beautiful '73 CB 350F Four this past weekend and have been thouroughly enjoying it, as well as doing a lot of research. I posted some pics on here yesterday of my bike and people (maybe you) commented that it was very rare that my bike has the original 4 in 4 exhausts. The exhausts are the originals and still sound and work great. They were repaired where the pipes meet the muffler but it's barely noticible on a cosmetic level, and they still act as they should. There is a few very very small holes on the bottom of the pipes but doesn't seem to affect it at all. Several people on this site told me I should take those pipes off and keep them, and install after market pipes. They said they are very rare and valuable and I shouldn't use them. So, being a newbie to this I have a few questions. Do you think I should put aftermarket pipes and seal these 4 in 4s up, or just keep using them? And if you think I should switch the pipes, where do I go to get good pair of aftermarket ones? Also, is this something I can install on my own even if I am not very knowledgeable yet about bikes? Thank you VERY much! Your knowledge and feedback is very much appreciated.

[Raul CB750K1]

Tell you what, my 750K1 still have the original HM300 pipes with absolutely NO rust or dings whatsoever. I also considered buying an aftermarket set, but then my 750 will not be the same. I want it stock, and I want to enjoy it. There is no use for a set of pipes lying in the garage. Let them show and brag about the great condition of your bike.

If you fall and the pipes scratch or break, or they get rusted, you will worry later what you will do. I don't think anybody in the Honda factory thought, as the bikes were leaving the production line, that those pipes were going to be kept away.

So if my set of pipes were the last one on the face of the earth, and somebody was willing to pay me 60K for them, I would think twice, because with that money I can buy three or four new bikes. But if my set of pipes rust or break, what a pity, one HM300 set less. My bike is not a museum piece; it's a runner.


Raul

[cben750f0]

i took the original system off my F1, mainly cos i had come across a new system, bought it, fitted it, then found out it decked out!!!!, now dragging $1800 worth of NOS exhaust on the ground really dont make me happy, so went and bought  aftermarket system.. when i get another frame, i will put the F1 back to standard, but until that time... the standard system will hang up in the shed..peace

[Raul CB750K1]

For a SuperSport there is really no big difference in looks, but a CB750 or 550 withouth four pipes is not a real CB. Maybe it can handle as well or run as well, but it doesn't look as well. If you are riding it also for the looks you can't settle for less than stock (or near stock)

If I drag my pipes I'll be more than happy if I can stand up by myself and live longer to buy a new set.

It's like that old joke of two lads discussing what was best, video tapes or laser disc. The ultimate argument was: laser disc is better because if there is a nuclear explosion the radiation will demagnetize the tapes unlike the discs...

So if your main concern during a nuclear attack is what will happen to your video collection, go and buy an aftermarket set. It's always the right time to spend 1800$ buy a set of new pipes. I rather have 1800$ on my bank account than hanging on my shed.


Use the worst case scenario: You have your pipes on your bike. Two things can happen: you drag the pipes or you don't (for the rest of your life).

If you never drop your bike, then it's perfect. If you drop it, you have to buy a new set of pipes. It could happen:

a) NOS are available but very expensive.
b) NOS are not available, only aftermarket.
c) there are available reissues of the pipes at an affordable price.


You never know when that will happen. What if by then 1800$ is pocket money for you?. If you use your originals pipes today and when you need a new set there is only aftermarket, it's the same situation than if you replace today the originals for aftermarket, but the other way round. You will be riding part of your life with aftermarket. Why starting today? You never know if that day will come.




The only reason for wanting to keep the pipes is if you plan to have the bike for a museum collection. Or, if you keep them away today for the future, would you reinstall if you drag an aftermarket set? Of course not.

It's like keeping spare parts. Generally you always need the part you don't have spare for. I rather pay three times its value in the future than buying it today. The money you spent today is money gone. You never know if you ever will need the part, or your bike will be stolen, or burnt, or you will die tomorrow from a heart attack, or simply you will get tired of the old japanese bikes and buy a Harley. And I tell you what, if you have the dough you will always find a part, or somebody will find it for you.


There is a fable about and old emperor who had a horse he loved dearly. A man was sentenced for life and claimed that he can make the emperor's horse to speak. The emperor's ordered the man to be brought in front of him. Asked wether what he said was true and the prisoner said it was, but he needed 10 years. He would also need to be taken out of prison to the stables, better food etc. The emperor agreed but told him that if the horse didn't speak by the deadline he would be killed.

His cell companion asked him are you crazy? You can't make the horse speak. you will be dead in 10 years.

And the prisoner replied: But until then I'll be out of this cell, with good food and drink and smelling the fresh air. Who know what will happen in 10 years? The emperor may die, the horse may die, I may die, or maybe we all die. Maybe I find a way to escape. Until then, I'll enjoy life. What do i want the life for inside this cell?



So, don't keep your life (pipes) for the future. Enjoy them now.


Raul (a.k.a. chinese biscuit lover...  )



Raul

[Raul CB750K1]

Supersport CB400F, how much is a fortune? I'm just curious.

Also, a CB400F without it's sculpted pipes is an ordinary bike.

[rpyles]

Raul -
c) there are available reissues of the pipes at an affordable price.
What? Where?
4-into-2 Richard

[cben750f0]

jeeeeeez....NEway i have a tranzac system on now, and that will go on the cafe i want to build early next year, as will the bb kit,electronic ign etc etc... the F1 will go back to standard... i would rather have them nice for the resto.. than to ruin them nao, and then look for another set later on...atm, i am just haveing fun trying to get the best performance out of the F1,and am not really worried about authenticity(?)... again, when i start on the next bike this one is going back to stock... everything i have taken off this bike is in bubble wrap and waiting to go back on.  the other reason i changed my pipes , is i want to do some classic club raceing, and the standard 4-1 is not conducive to good ground clearance... the K model had better ground clearance than the F1.... so this is my reason... and quiet frankly  IF there is  neuclear explosion, and i am close enough for my tapes to stuff up.... the tapes are going to be the least of my worries.... ... though i do love my tapes....peace

[Raul CB750K1]

Maybe not today, but in the future we don't know. The seat was discontinued and Honda have it again available. At 200$ it is expensive, but it is available. Who knows if Honda starts making sidecovers again in the future?

Reproduction sidecovers are probably cheap to build if you order a bunch. Why not pipes? What if Honda starts making the CB's again? Suzuki did it with the Katana in small numbers. Who knows. Why worrying now? Only if you need them. It's like keeping your expensive suit for special ocassions, and when you put it back in 2 years it is out of fashion (or you simply don't fit in).

Raul

[don_m]

Having ridden my '72 CB350F from new & also working on several others, I can give you the bad news that the original mufflers were very thin to keep the wieght down.  They have drain holes at the bottom but I kept mine clear & they quickly rusted out anyway.  If yiou have small holes now, the damage will spread rapidly, & probably only the chrome plating is holding things together.  I've used several after market 4 into 2 mufflers with varying results, one from J. C. Whitney being very loud & unusable in the street.  I now use a 400F header & SuperTrapp muffler which looks & works great. 
Don Psycle Madden.

[Suke]

Thanks for the feedback! I'm glad you guys convinced me to use the pipes that are on there and too just enjoy it. That is what I was planning on doing when I bought the bike, and just became curious what others think. Thanks. I'm looking forward to a nice holiday weekend and enjoying my bike as it is!

[Deke Rivers]

Hey Suke,

Glad you made it over here.     I concur with the others.... enjoy the ride!  Oopps, that was Mr. "Nissan" not Mr. Honda that said that.

[smithrelo]

Suke- did you decide to get a cover for bike?  When it sits at the train stop?

Linda

[Suke]

Hi  Linda,
Yes, I will get a cover for the bike, but I haven't done so yet. Then again, I haven't ridden the bike to the train yet either. I definitely want to keep it in as good as condition as possible. Problem is that the train is only a few miles away from my house, and I've read on here that you shouldn't ride your bike for such a short distance because it can make the exhaust rust faster. I'm going to search around this site for good maintenance tips for exhaust, but do you think it'll be a problem to ride such a  short distance? Thanks!

[smithrelo]

Suke,

My understanding from reading on this site is that if the exhausts don't get hot enough, water/condensation forms inside them and they rust from the inside out...And I have 31 year old 4 to 4 pipes like yours....so I tend to make sure I ride my bike a minimum of 20 minutes just to make sure she gets good and hot. 

Now mind you, my pipes are OLD but still good and my understanding is that the pipes "insides" were like paper when they were new (and I could be mistaken on this point!) ...so I just want to keep them on the bike as long as possible.  Even in the winter, I have a 5 mile route in the neighborhood that I would take every 2 weeks (weather permitting) so that the battery would get charged up and the bike would get hot.

Glad you're concerned with keeping your bike in good shape!

Linda

[Raul CB750K1]

OK, it's time for the physics lesson. Water can be found in solids state, liquid state and gas state. In the air there is some part of water in form of gas.

The amoung of water air can take is limited. Once it can't take more water the air is saturated. IT's what happens on a sauna or on a closed bath with a hot tub.

The amount of water depends heavily on the air temperature. The higher the temperature, the more water vapour you can put on it.

For a given amount of air, if you reduce it's temperature the amount of water in it will remain fixed, but as the air cools the volume shrinks. There comes a time when the air can't hold more water vapour and the vapour liquifies. That is called dew point. It's what happens on the windows in winter or the mirrors in baths. Glass is cold, the air touching it reduces its temperature and water condenses on the surface.


Now let's go to the bike. The cylinder sucks air, and that air have water vapour. On the exhaust the water vapour is still there. If the pipes are cold water condenses on it.

But, how much water is there on the air. In summer not much, so you can ride your bike even for a mile with no condensation. But if you live, say, in Nashville (like a did), summers are hot and humid, so you will have problems there, but not many as the pipes will be almost at air temperature, and that is high.

So I would say do the breath test. Breath your rear view mirror. Is there is condensation, there will also be on the pipes and vice versa.

Raul

[douglascoolgrey]

The cylinder sucks air, and that air have water vapour. On the exhaust the water vapour is still there. If the pipes are cold water condenses on it.

The products of combustion -- water, CO2 and energy in the forms of heat and light.

That said, enjoy your bike. My favorite step in lubing my chain is the last, where the instruction specifically state: "RIDE!"

--DG
(Working my way to 100 posts...)

[Suke]

Very interesting info here! Thanks for all the replies. Okay, I am going to just ride my bike and take care of it best I can....and hopefully I don't need to put a post up soon asking for any parts! Thanks again, I really appreciate it.

[smithrelo]

Suke

One thing, you might check is the 3 fuses under the left side cover-I was blowing fuses and finally I realized that the fuses blowing evidently were "original", so now I have 3 nice shiny new fuses and no further problems.  Cheap fix and might save you from having bike towed....which happened to me TWICE!! - now I travel with 9 -  15 am fuses and 3 each of the 5 and 7.5 amp fuses. 

Just a thought!

Linda

[Suke]

Thanks for the thought Linda! I'll definitely look into that, as well as your other suggestions. I took my bike for my longest ride so far today and it was soooooo nice! My first day on busier roads, and my confidence is building day by day. I'll check into the fuses. Thanks again!

[Seyser]

Suke: You need to take them pipes off and sell them to me! J/K run them and show off the beautiful 4 into 4 system that these bikes are famous for. Im picking up my 350f next week and the only non original part is the exhaust but oh well, I bought it to ride so the 4 into 1 MAC exhaust should do just fine.

-Jeremy-

[eldar]

AS everyone says, you may as well run the pipes. The inside baffles are going to be mostly shot anyways so enjoy the outside while you can.  My 78 750k mufflers rusted to beat hell before I even got the bike. I was able to save the headers and just got aftermarket slash-cuts. They sound great and I think look even better than the originals. I know some will almost fall over at me saying that but just get on the subject of shocks. Virtually everyone will have something OTHER than the originals. Your mufflers affect performance just like your shocks do.

So use the originals as long as you can but try to keep your headers in good shape.