Topic: Who wants to play guess the part? AKA Clutch problems part 2

[NastyNip]

Hey all,

Backstory:
The story continues trying to diagnose the weird sounds (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,149844.msg1709604.html#msg1709604) from my 1974 CB550K.
After riding with it the past couple months I think it might have to do with the clutch:

• The problem started after I replaced clutchplates a while back
• Potentially some crazy amounts of basket play?
• When coming to a stop the bike feels like it "pulses" forward with the clutch pulled in and in gear. It also has as wandering friction point and I basically have to dump the clutch off the line for it to behave, as the bike will "pulse" in and out of the friction point when starting.[size=78%] [/size]

Questions:
I found this washer on the garage floor after working on the clutch last:





1: What is it/where does it go? It seems too thick to be a shim, unless my basket is that out of spec? It doesn't even seem like it fits on the shaft behind the basket? Is it even from my bike?


2: I also found the EBC Springs I installed are noticeably taller than the stock ones I pulled from the bike. Do you think that has anything to do with the above symptoms? (Old springs vs. EBC on right)





Thanks in advance for your wisdom

[DH]

Go to www.westernhonda.com and find the parts diagram for your bike. That washer may indeed be related to the basket.
Worth verifying anyway. Someone else will add to this I'm sure..

[flybox1]

looks like #29
http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb550-four-1975-cb550k0-usa_model465/partslist/E++03.html#results

[NastyNip]

looks like #29
http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb550-four-1975-cb550k0-usa_model465/partslist/E++03.html#results

Hey! That's not a bad guess! I'll tear it down and try sticking it in this weekend.

What about the difference in spring sizes, is that an issue at all?

[jonda500]

there is a washer like that on the kickstarter shaft - it usually sticks to the clutch cover as you remove it and then falls on the floor...
John

[NastyNip]

So the washer was indeed from the kickstarter shaft, and the problem persists. I'm about at the end of my rope with this!  I've never had a bike problem stump me for so long. I would gladly take it to a shop but nobody in the SF Bay Area works on these bikes anymore.

Should I replace the entire clutch basket? I have a 1978 CB550K, would that clutch basket work in this 1974?

[754]

 I think there is a dished washer behind the clutch... should be in there..

[jonda500]

The '78 clutch basket will fit, why do you think that will fix the problem though?

What condition/age is your clutch cable?
John

[Deltarider]

I also found the EBC Springs I installed are noticeably taller than the stock ones I pulled from the bike. Do you think that has anything to do with the above symptoms? (Old springs vs. EBC on right)

I would ask EBC. A quick glance at the parts list of the CB550K learns me that there are no less than 4 different partsnumbers for the clutch springs, indicating modifications. Do you think EBC followed? Honda Shop Manual p.141 Service Data (CB 550) mentions a standard value for Clutch spring free length of 36,8 (1.45) and a serviceable limit of 35,4 (1.39). Your EBC springs look much longer.

[przjohn]

Not sure what, "Potentially some crazy amounts of basket play" means? Are you saying the basket is loose? it sounds to me like you may have one or more warped metal plates.

[NastyNip]

The '78 clutch basket will fit, why do you think that will fix the problem though?

What condition/age is your clutch cable?
John

Well by process of elimination, if I swap out the full basket+plates with the '78 and the problem continues, then I know the problem isn't with the clutch, but with something even more sinister (tranny?)

The clutch cable is brand new (two weeks)

I would ask EBC. A quick glance at the parts list of the CB550K learns me that there are no less than 4 different partsnumbers for the clutch springs, indicating modifications. Do you think EBC followed? Honda Shop Manual p.141 Service Data (CB 550) mentions a standard value for Clutch spring free length of 36,8 (1.45) and a serviceable limit of 35,4 (1.39). Your EBC springs look much longer.

Not a bad call. I have used EBC in the past with great results, but this is my first 1974 550 and I know being the first production year things can be off from what is actually documented. I'll check with them.

Not sure what, "Potentially some crazy amounts of basket play" means? Are you saying the basket is loose? it sounds to me like you may have one or more warped metal plates.

My thoughts were just that the basket or something isn't function to spec because it will engage and disengage at will. I checked the actual basket play and it was tight on the shaft and to spec.

However, there was no thrust washer behind the basket. I can't find a replacement online, but would that be creating the situation I have currently?

[rotortiller]

The problem started after I replaced clutchplates a while back

Put the old #$%* back in and give it a try.

rt

[NastyNip]

As always, I try to follow up with my threads incase someone else runs into the same problems I have:

So I guess you can say I never really figured out the problem but I solved it; I simply replaced the entire clutch basket assembly with one from my '78 550 and it runs perfectly. No more weird noises. 

Thanks for the help, everyone.

[alacrity]

I have had to have a shim made for the basket in the past (since honda stopped selling the various thickness shims as per their parts catalog. You want no in/out slop with the basket.