Author Topic: Cb400F gasket/o-ring questions.  (Read 1556 times)

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Offline cb400f/20yo/semi-broke.

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Cb400F gasket/o-ring questions.
« on: April 12, 2016, 01:42:08 AM »
Hi, im currently reassembling my engine from the cases and up.
Having ordered a complete gasket set, i am not entirely certain regarding o-rings.
Now, from the cases there is 2 "pipes" leading the oil i assume. Now, having read the page on the haynes manual a lot of times, and looking on drawings on Cmsnl.com i am not entirely certain if there actually is supposed to be an oil ring on these 2 "oil studs".

Can anybody help me?

Question 2:
the book mentions that "gasket cement" is not nescesary  between the cases and the cylinder block. Is it nescesary anywhere else from the cylinder block and up?

Best Regards.

Offline Bodi

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Re: Cb400F gasket/o-ring questions.
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2016, 03:40:46 AM »
The 350/400 Honda service manual can be found online, some scans are even quite good. Worth checking out.
There are no o-rings - except the barrel ones - at the base gasket.
I put a thin ring of non-hardening gasket sealant (hondabond or threebond) around the stud holes at the very ends of the barrel assembly because these holes carry oil at pressure up to the valvegear. The front corner return oil stud holes don't need anything.
I also use Hylomar spray (thin coating, read the instructions) on the head gasket plus a very thin ring of hondabond around the oil control orifice seal holes in the head gasket. Note that every 350 or 400 engine I've reassembled has eventually (or immediately) seeped a little oil out the end of the head gasket area... I don't know Honda's secret here as unopened engines rarely have evidence of this seepage. Try to use genuine Honda orifice valve seals 12910-333-000 as aftermarket ones have not worked as well for me.
Do NOT use silicon sealant anywhere a gasket or mating surface penetrates the inside of the engine where oil lives.
The valve cover gasket is tricky. Honda glued them in with something. Removing that glue is not so easy, paint remover and a wooden scraper (kebab stick?) works OK if your cover isn't painted. As with all aluminum alloy parts, avoid steel wire brushes. Automotive weatherstrip glue is pretty good to glue the new one in the groove: without it held in place you don't have enough hands or room to keep it there while getting the cover on and rockers in place.

Offline cb400f/20yo/semi-broke.

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Re: Cb400F gasket/o-ring questions.
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2016, 04:19:08 AM »
Bodi, thank you very much for your reply. I'm home from school in 2 hours. I will upload a picture as of to where my doubt specifically is.
Best Regards.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 04:25:45 AM by cb400f/20yo/semi-broke. »

Offline strynboen

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Re: Cb400F gasket/o-ring questions.
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2016, 06:02:00 AM »
there is a o ring on that oil line tube floting/spraying the cam..
i have faund this topgasket set..its look oldscool vith acestos gaskets for the exhost ports..but preis is fine
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Honda-CB-400-F-Four-CB400-Dichtungen-TOP-SET-NEU-hp77/130371833983?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3D46e55465c1cb4c82bf0cc4f46d6e6178%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D231006865137

if its the big hole studs at the cylender top to the head..there is a o ring on both studs 2 in all..and one at the (2) oil valve
no o ring at the bottom of the cylender..only the 4 one at the sleves...but BODI have just said it all ... ;)..they like to leak a bit this small sohc..so some( non silocone) fl gasket on all kritical oil pressure lines goes through gaskets is a must
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 06:28:18 AM by strynboen »
i kan not speak english/but trying!!
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=60973.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144758.0
i hate all this v-w.... vords

Offline cb400f/20yo/semi-broke.

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Re: Cb400F gasket/o-ring questions.
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2016, 07:28:36 AM »
They 2 "pipes" in question are these. Marked with the red circle.

Offline strynboen

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Re: Cb400F gasket/o-ring questions.
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2016, 07:38:30 AM »
no o rings in the bottom..and i have not seen any leaks dovn there..on 400/550..so no need for machining one to fit..
all leaking problens is in the head gasket areia..
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 08:26:21 AM by strynboen »
i kan not speak english/but trying!!
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=60973.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144758.0
i hate all this v-w.... vords

Offline cb400f/20yo/semi-broke.

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Re: Cb400F gasket/o-ring questions.
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2016, 10:31:28 AM »
Thank you, I've fitted the bike with new piston rings. How should i tackle the break-in of these new piston rings?

Offline strynboen

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Re: Cb400F gasket/o-ring questions.
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2016, 10:56:03 AM »
have you used a ball/flex honer.?
.if not the new rings dont seat/ vear inn...blank bores dont brak inn the rings..

i just run it as variated as possibel..not to lov rpm..and not very heigh..and dont press it dovn in rpm in heigh gear ,,so turque builds up..let it spinn freely and easy..for the first 300 km..then fire it up..as usual..then no problem..
but use the old pistons..the bore is sloggy and dont need so long to get the rings sat..
on my bike i reused a old set cyll and pistons i had as spareparts..they just got a very light hone,,as i reused the rings also..so no need for brakinn that setup
i kan not speak english/but trying!!
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=60973.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144758.0
i hate all this v-w.... vords

Offline cb400f/20yo/semi-broke.

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Re: Cb400F gasket/o-ring questions.
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2016, 02:37:37 PM »
They've been honed, homemade honing  ;D  bores have been measured and are good, pistons are good as well.

Offline Bodi

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Re: Cb400F gasket/o-ring questions.
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2016, 07:25:19 PM »
There are several theories on how to break in new rings: One is the old-school way of taking it easy at varying RPM for the first while.

Another is to work it fairly hard as soon as it's up to operating temperature.

From the Hastings Piston Rings suggested procedure:
"1. Set tappets, adjust carburetor and ignition timing as accurately as possible before starting engine.

2. Start engine and set throttle to an engine speed of approximately 25 miles per hour (trucks, tractors and stationary engines one-third throttle) until the engine coolant reaches normal operating temperature. Then shut down engine and retorque cylinder head bolts, recheck carburetor adjustments, ignition timing and valve tappet clearance. (Run engine at fast idle during warm-up period to assure adequate initial lubrication for piston rings, pistons and cylinders.)
3. Make a test run at 30 miles per hour and accelerate at full throttle to 50 miles per hour. Repeat the acceleration cycle from 30 to 50 miles per hour at least ten times. No further break-in is necessary. If traffic conditions will not permit this procedure, accelerate the engine rapidly several times through the intermediate gears during the check run. The object is to apply a load to the engine for short periods of time and in rapid succession soon after engine warm up. This action thrusts the piston rings against the cylinder wall with increased pressure and results in accelerated ring seating.

A third is to really work it hard as soon as it warms immediately after starting with new rings. Check this out: http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

There are as many opinions on how to do it - and opinions on why any other way is insane - as there are Harleys at Sturgis.