Topic: Fox Podium RC1 Shock - Impressions

[calj737]

It's also unacceptable for a reputable company to tell a customer that they do not offer anything softer to address the issues.

As I said, and perhaps they too but you didn't hear, they might have a spring in their catalog that could work but it's not part of this product line. This is where dialog to solve the problem would be productive, instead of vendor bashing.

Oh FYI, I did not email Fox. The email response (posted one first page) from Stacey came unsolicited.

Really? That seems at odds with your earlier posts...

BTW, I emailed RCS technical dept.
Will let you know what they say.

One of my rants, Jim? I am only pointing out that you seem ready to label companies and vendors when your experience doesn't meet your expectations. That is unreasonable. But you always say "It's completely unreasonable..." as if every vendor should behave exactly as you think and want. The world isn't that way. And for you to disparage vendors widely and publicly is, in my opinion, completely unreasonable. Especially if you don't work with them or post both sides of the conversations. That is why I describe your post as one-sided. From the replies from Fox that you did post, it seems as though they would work with you, if you wanted to engage with them. Maybe not, I don't know as I don't work for them.

But I have ridden SOHCs with these shocks (not the short body unit you bought) I found them very good, very adjustable, and of very high quality. I regret for you that you didn't or that you've experienced some challenges in getting your application sorted. But challenges doesn't make a company (Fox) a greedy corporation nor unreasonable. It makes your situation disappointing. That's a huge difference.

You think corporations are inanimate objects; they're not. They're filled with people like you and me. People who have great days, good days, so-so days and crappy days. Who knows, maybe the engineers overlooked short units needing shorter springs. It's not the end of the world for Pete's Sake. Why not send Stacey and email and ask him if they have a 8" 1.5kg spring that might work and give it a try? You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Just curious, is the shock length of the Fox the same as the Works unit you removed? I remember you had a For Sale thread where you were offering those, but don't recall the specs on them.

[MRieck]

Wow, I'm glad this thread cane up. I was contemplating a set of Fox adjustable shock for my F model dragbike to get better control of rebound and dampening for my launches. The stock shocks work okay but i know it would lower my 60' times if I could tweak the shock. You just saved me a bunch of $$$.

Why don't you look at some YSS shocks Frank

[dragracer]

Wow, I'm glad this thread cane up. I was contemplating a set of Fox adjustable shock for my F model dragbike to get better control of rebound and dampening for my launches. The stock shocks work okay but i know it would lower my 60' times if I could tweak the shock. You just saved me a bunch of $$$.

Why don't you look at some YSS shocks Frank

Thanks Mike.

[FunJimmy]

As I said, and perhaps they too but you didn't hear, they might have a spring in their catalog that could work but it's not part of this product line. This is where dialog to solve the problem would be productive, instead of vendor bashing.

Nope! No such item currently available from FOX!
That said, Stacey is indeed consulting with his engineers and spring supplier to see if they can provide a solution.

BTW, I emailed RCS technical dept.
Will let you know what they say.

That as you may have concluded (but chose to ignore) was an inquiry with Renton Coil Spring as recommended by Tige. Not FOX.
I have also contacted a couple of other spring vendors in an attempt to solve this dilemma.

Just curious, is the shock length of the Fox the same as the Works unit you removed? I remember you had a For Sale thread where you were offering those, but don't recall the specs on them.

The shock length is exactly the same between the Fox and Works shocks. The Works shocks have 8" springs and the Fox units have 9" springs. I pulled the classified listing until I get this resolved. Would hate to sell the Works units only to find that the Fox shocks are unable to work.

[calj737]

BTW, I emailed RCS technical dept.
Will let you know what they say.

That as you may have concluded (but chose to ignore) was an inquiry with Renton Coil Spring as recommended by Tige. Not FOX.
I have also contacted a couple of other spring vendors in an attempt to solve this dilemma.

I didn't choose to ignore it, I misread it. Completely my mistake, my apologies to you. Also, I should not have phrased in an earlier post "...or cheap". Its true, you do spend a great deal of time and money making a very nice bike. So there again, I was wrong and extend an apology.

[FunJimmy]

Here's a spring comparison between the Works and the Fox.
The Works spring is to soft at 70lbs/in but would be a better overall length.
Unfortunately the ID is to small to slip on the Fox shock.
Would have been interesting so see how much of an effect the gas charge and compression circuit has.

[Camrector]

Jimmy, maybe I missed it but what shock length did you purchase? 325mm or 350mm?
Really curious to find out if and why they used the same 9in spring across the entire product line.

[FunJimmy]

Jimmy, maybe I missed it but what shock length did you purchase? 325mm or 350mm?
Really curious to find out if and why they used the same 9in spring across the entire product line.

I've got the 325mm shocks.

[FunJimmy]

I pulled one of the Fox springs and confirmed 21.5mm of preload due to the excessively long springs. That combined with 7mm of sag would net out to approx 28mm with correct length springs. That's about the right amount.

[FunJimmy]

I'd like to shout out to Chris at CL MotoTech for all the help sorting my spring issues. Chris located Eibach 8" springs in 72.8lbs/in (1.3 kg) as well as a 89.6lbs/in (1.6 kg) with the correct ID from RaceTech. I've still to hear back from FOX but suspect that they will also confirm availability of an 8" spring.

Providing FOX makes changes to their production this new information should rectify the over sprung issues for anyone considering 325mm long Fox Podium shocks. I don't know what Fox's position is for the heaps of shocks already in circulation but if no one is the wiser maybe it's not a concern.

[FunJimmy]

Heard back from Fox and they've indeed located an 8" spring option.
Unfortunately it's stiffer than the current spring (albeit, shorter) and red.

Is a shorter, stiffer spring solving anything?
Would this merely end up in the same over spring situation?
Suggestions?
Recommendations?

Inquiring minds want to know

Jim

I spoke to our engineers and also researched what FOX has available and what could be ordered. What we have is an 8” spring that is 100lb. Looking at the set up and amount of preload with the engineers, they felt that the 8”, 100lb should work. The catch is that the springs a red. This is the only thing FOX has in stock. With the research I did, finding a different color and or weight in the exact spring specs from our current vendors isn’t going to happen. This might be why FOX does not have anything different in stock.
 
Let me know if you want the springs and I’ll send them out on Monday. I won’t be back in the office until and I don’t check email over the weekend. That said, any feed back you have I’ll get back to you on Monday.
 
Enjoy the weekend. 
 
Stacey Sell
FOX Global Distributor Sales

[seanbarney41]

At this point?...I would  just return the crap and get some Ohlins or something, they are cheaper anyway (when Ohlins are cheaper, that's just weird!)...were you really unhappy with the Works that you had?

[FunJimmy]

At this point?...I would  just return the crap and get some Ohlins or something, they are cheaper anyway (when Ohlins are cheaper, that's just weird!)...were you really unhappy with the Works that you had?

Sean,

I think the Fox Podium RC1 shocks are quality items. It's just a matter of getting the springs right.
That shouldn't have been an issue but it is and will hopefully get sorted. If not, then I have no choice but to return them.

The Works shocks are great but they don't have adjustable compression and rebound plus the springs are just a tad soft. In hindsight I could have just ordered different springs and left it.

Where can you find Ohlins for cheaper?

[MRieck]

At this point?...I would  just return the crap and get some Ohlins or something, they are cheaper anyway (when Ohlins are cheaper, that's just weird!)...were you really unhappy with the Works that you had?

Sean,

I think the Fox Podium RC1 shocks are quality items. It's just a matter of getting the springs right.
That shouldn't have been an issue but it is and will hopefully get sorted. If not, then I have no choice but to return them.

The Works shocks are great but they don't have adjustable compression and rebound plus the springs are just a tad soft. In hindsight I could have just ordered different springs and left it.

Where can you find Ohlins for cheaper?

Your not going to find Ohlins with a clevis mount

[FunJimmy]

Your not going to find Ohlins with a clevis mount

Buzz at Dynoman has them but he said they won't fit the 550's. Bummer

http://www.dynomanperformance.com/chassis/ohlins1.html

[calj737]

Buzz at Dynoman has them but he said they won't fit the 550's.

Curious. Did he say why they wouldn't fit? Or what lengths do they come in?

[Retro Rocket]

Buzz at Dynoman has them but he said they won't fit the 550's.

Curious. Did he say why they wouldn't fit? Or what lengths do they come in?

Its the lengths Cal, they are usually for DOHC models that require longer shocks {with a clevis}, None have been specifically made to suit the early CB's. That being said, its not that hard to make a clevis fitting for a shorter shock in their catalogue, there are actually some places that make clevis for shock conversions, Ohlins also  sell "spare parts", although I haven't been able to find a clevis, I have found the end eye type.....

http://store.resuspension.com/product.php?productid=18395

[fastbroshi]

  Negative Retro, it's not the lengths for sure.  They might seem a little long compared to stock length, but I can say from experience with my YSS shocks that a tad longer isn't necessarily a bad thing (I'm about 5'11" 200lbs no gear).  Mine are the model with preload/compression adjustments. 
  Ohlins does make a couple of eye-clevis mounts, remember my PM? 
  I've been getting antsy and getting busy in the garage just a tad so I started looking into shocks.  So here's what I found:

HO 140 S36P - rings in at 364mm length, or 14.33"  Single monotube, 36mm shaft, gas pressurized.  This model won't fit our SOHC CBs per Dynoman, out of the box anyway.  From what I can tell, it just needs a  non-offset clevis made.  See the email from Dynoman below.

HO  153E S36E - 364mm as well, but just preload (I think)  oil/gas emulsion
 

Here's a respons email from Dynoman asking why the 140 won't fit.  Didn't ask about the 153.


Hello Tim,

Running shocks that are longer than the stock shocks can reduce the rake of the front end and cause high speed wobbles. It is not something that we recommend as it is very dangerous, however it is not the only reason that the Ohlins shocks will not work on your bike. The stock shocks have an offset clevis at the bottom where the Ohlins do not, so they can hit the chain. We sell the Progressive shocks that have the offset clevis and are the correct fit for your bike. You can see them here:   http://www.dynomanperformance.com/chassis/progressive.html

Thanks very much for looking and have a great weekend!

Although now that I'm looking, DimeCity has exact pictures, these don't look offset, though I could be wrong.  This also says they fit the '79 - 84 CB900.  I know those old 900F shocks with the piggyback reservoirs fit the 550, so these should fit if one wanted to try.  I'll probably message dimecity and see what they say.  Their listing and Dynoman's are conflicting.

http://www.dimecitycycles.com/14-33-inch-ohlins-s36p-eye-to-clevis-gas-charged-rear-motorcycle-shock-absorbers.html

[Retro Rocket]

  Negative Retro, it's not the lengths for sure.  They might seem a little long compared to stock length, but I can say from experience with my YSS shocks that a tad longer isn't necessarily a bad thing (I'm about 5'11" 200lbs no gear).  Mine are the model with preload/compression adjustments. 
  Ohlins does make a couple of eye-clevis mounts, remember my PM? 
  I've been getting antsy and getting busy in the garage just a tad so I started looking into shocks.  So here's what I found:

HO 140 S36P - rings in at 364mm length, or 14.33"  Single monotube, 36mm shaft, gas pressurized  THIS WON'T FIT.  Out of the box anyway.  Just needs a  non-offset clevis made.

HO  153E S36E - 364mm as well, but just preload (I think)  oil/gas emulsion
 

 Below is my email to Dynoman asking why the 140 won't fit.  Didn't ask about the 153.


Hello Tim,

Running shocks that are longer than the stock shocks can reduce the rake of the front end and cause high speed wobbles. It is not something that we recommend as it is very dangerous, however it is not the only reason that the Ohlins shocks will not work on your bike. The stock shocks have an offset clevis at the bottom where the Ohlins do not, so they can hit the chain. We sell the Progressive shocks that have the offset clevis and are the correct fit for your bike. You can see them here:   http://www.dynomanperformance.com/chassis/progressive.html

Thanks very much for looking and have a great weekend!

I forgot about the clevis being offset on the Honda, I mention the length because a lot of guys are using USD front ends that are not as long as stock, along with a raised rear it getting close to , if not a dangerous lack of trail.. I don't have any stock swingarms anyway so its of no concern to me,  also, its not too hard, as I said earlier, to make, or have made a new clevis mount, with adjustable ride height as well.  Yes, I do remember the PM bud, {just not whats in it } ...   If you have easy access to that PM, resend it please, I have 84 pages of PM's and its a nightmare going through them...

[MRieck]

  Negative Retro, it's not the lengths for sure.  They might seem a little long compared to stock length, but I can say from experience with my YSS shocks that a tad longer isn't necessarily a bad thing (I'm about 5'11" 200lbs no gear).  Mine are the model with preload/compression adjustments. 
  Ohlins does make a couple of eye-clevis mounts, remember my PM? 
  I've been getting antsy and getting busy in the garage just a tad so I started looking into shocks.  So here's what I found:

HO 140 S36P - rings in at 364mm length, or 14.33"  Single monotube, 36mm shaft, gas pressurized.  This model won't fit our SOHC CBs per Dynoman, out of the box anyway.  From what I can tell, it just needs a  non-offset clevis made.  See the email from Dynoman below.

HO  153E S36E - 364mm as well, but just preload (I think)  oil/gas emulsion
 

Here's a respons email from Dynoman asking why the 140 won't fit.  Didn't ask about the 153.


Hello Tim,

Running shocks that are longer than the stock shocks can reduce the rake of the front end and cause high speed wobbles. It is not something that we recommend as it is very dangerous, however it is not the only reason that the Ohlins shocks will not work on your bike. The stock shocks have an offset clevis at the bottom where the Ohlins do not, so they can hit the chain. We sell the Progressive shocks that have the offset clevis and are the correct fit for your bike. You can see them here:   http://www.dynomanperformance.com/chassis/progressive.html

Thanks very much for looking and have a great weekend!

Although now that I'm looking, DimeCity has exact pictures, these don't look offset, though I could be wrong.  This also says they fit the '79 - 84 CB900.  I know those old 900F shocks with the piggyback reservoirs fit the 550, so these should fit if one wanted to try.  I'll probably message dimecity and see what they say.  Their listing and Dynoman's are conflicting.

http://www.dimecitycycles.com/14-33-inch-ohlins-s36p-eye-to-clevis-gas-charged-rear-motorcycle-shock-absorbers.html

Even with the ride height adjustment set to minimum?

[seanbarney41]

Since when did offset clevis fit sohc4's?...without some kind of spacer

[fastbroshi]

Even with the ride height adjustment set to minimum?

I didn't take that into account Mike, good point.  Not sure if that's their minimum or not.  I'd definitely call and ask about that if I decided I wanted some. 

[FunJimmy]

Here's a little more info for those of you still following along.

Fox Podium RC1 shocks are gas charged and the internal gas pressure contributes to spring rate.
Curious of the contribution I compressed one of the shocks (sans spring) approx 1" travel onto a presision scale. Not scientific but the pressure measured 41.4 pounds. Multiply that by two shocks and there's an additional 82+ pounds of spring rate.

[fastbroshi]

   So back to your problem Jimmy,  if you paid money for those shocks expecting them to be rideable out of the box, shouldn't they provide you with new springs, or at least help you track down some?    The explanation that they make shocks for a wide range of riders, yada yada yada doesn't hold water when there's that amount of preload on the spring when it's backed all the way out.   It doesn't sound like it's suitable for anyone under 275lbs.

[FunJimmy]

   So back to your problem Jimmy,  if you paid money for those shocks expecting them to be rideable out of the box, shouldn't they provide you with new springs, or at least help you track down some?    The explanation that they make shocks for a wide range of riders, yada yada yada doesn't hold water when there's that amount of preload on the spring when it's backed all the way out.   It doesn't sound like it's suitable for anyone under 275lbs.

I thought there'd be more of a willingness to get a satisfactory resolution too. Especially considering I found a suitable spring from Racetech and let FOX know about it. This was the most recent response.

Happy Monday Jim
 
Here is what I’ve got … at this time we cannot come up with an 8” 85lb, 1.88 ID spring for our current vendors. We are working with these vendors(possibly others) to get this spring in stock. Problem is I don’t know how long it will take to have these available. So that you are not held up in your build process, what I’d like to do is send you the 8” 100lb spring that is currently available. Based on the discussions I had with FOX engineers, they felt that this spring should work. I say ”should” purposefully, because I know there can always be anomalies in any one set up. Even if that set up appears to be identical to another. Be aware that when I spoke the engineers I made them aware of what spring was currently on there (9”, 85lb) and that there was about ¾ of an inch of preload. And after pulling out the Texas Instruments and hitting the keys for a bit, he said, “I think it should work”. 
 
All that said, I’d like you to try the spring and see what you think. Meanwhile, I’ll still keep tabs on an 85lb spring that we may or may not need (depending on the outcome with the 100lb spring).
 
Thanks,     
 
Stacey Sell
FOX Global Distributor Sales