Topic: Fox Podium RC1 Shock - Impressions

[calj737]

Cal,

I may not be an expert in the field of suspension but I have read a lot on the topic and have a very good feel for a well setup bike. I spend a lot of money on high quality components and even more time and effort tuning for a spirited pace.

To make a statement like "I understand that you might be looking for a further reduction in spring rate. A lighter weight spring is not available from FOX" is unacceptable. I'm not looking for a lighter weight spring. I require one! At 193#' I'm not a light fella and I can't even get close to 20% sag with the lightest weight spring offered by FOX. The right responce should have been, "A lighter weight spring is currently not available. If you would be interested in helping with spring recommendations, we will wind a variety of lighter springs and ship them to you. Find the best spring for your application and return the rest. Thank you for your assistance, FOX Racing."

That's the professionalism I expect from a leader in the high end performance suspension business.
Am I wrong?

Jim - nobody is questioning your knowledge or precision. I was only asking two things: why you felt their reply was insufficient, and, had you ridden the bike yet to experience the setup.

I get the pre-ride tuning and adjustments your trying to make (unsuccessfully due to their springs). I'm not sure I'm in complete agreement with your assessment about their reply though. It goes to economics after all. If you're among the first or only to respond with unsatisfactory results from their product, I can't honestly see them effort ing spring development based upon one use case. Perhaps they do need to retune the shocks, or develop more applicable springs. It may be as others have said that they assembled this product using "other existing components" but altered to fit the frame. I don't know.

I can't see a large company investing in development efforts for one street rider when they have dozens/hundreds of pro racers in all disciplines to use as testing and feedback. Maybe a street shock for our SOHCs isn't a viable market for them?

Either way it ends up, I'm sure you're disappointed that it didn't work out. But fortunately you have the Works units to reinstall to recover your riding season.

Good luck and happy riding!

[FunJimmy]

Jim - nobody is questioning your knowledge or precision. I was only asking two things: why you felt their reply was insufficient, and, had you ridden the bike yet to experience the setup.

I get the pre-ride tuning and adjustments your trying to make (unsuccessfully due to their springs). I'm not sure I'm in complete agreement with your assessment about their reply though. It goes to economics after all. If you're among the first or only to respond with unsatisfactory results from their product, I can't honestly see them effort ing spring development based upon one use case. Perhaps they do need to retune the shocks, or develop more applicable springs. It may be as others have said that they assembled this product using "other existing components" but altered to fit the frame. I don't know.

I can't see a large company investing in development efforts for one street rider when they have dozens/hundreds of pro racers in all disciplines to use as testing and feedback. Maybe a street shock for our SOHCs isn't a viable market for them?

Either way it ends up, I'm sure you're disappointed that it didn't work out. But fortunately you have the Works units to reinstall to recover your riding season.

Good luck and happy riding!

It's not like I'm asking them to consider my opinion as it relates to the science of valving and shim stacks. I'm asking them to provide the basic requirement in spring rates. My bike is nothing exceptional. It does have a Dresda swingarm but the shock mount location and distances are the same as a stock arm so this is (will be) an issue with all 550's. How often have you heard a manufacturer say "we've never see that before?" or, "you're the first one to complain"? If you're going to produce a high end product that bears your companies brand, do it right or not at all.

As I said, Fox doesn't seem to be serious or ready for the SOHC4 market yet.

[tweakin]

Jim-  Renton Coil Spring could be an option if you want to keep the shocks.  http://www.rentoncoilspring.com/motorcycle.html
When I raced Downhill I always upgraded my shock springs, including FOX, to their sweet Ti springs...  And they are local in Renton, WA.

[FunJimmy]

Jim-  Renton Coil Spring could be an option if you want to keep the shocks.  http://www.rentoncoilspring.com/motorcycle.html
When I raced Downhill I always upgraded my shock springs, including FOX, to their sweet Ti springs...  And they are local in Renton, WA.

Thanks Tige. I had an RCS titanium spring on my Fox Vanilla RC shock back in the day.
Would love to have them provide springs for these Podium shocks but I don't know what spring rate I need yet.
That's the help I'm seeking.

BTW, I emailed RCS technical dept.
Will let you know what they say.

[Bill/BentON Racing]

Wasn't like that when I was sponsored by Progressive.  One call was all it took,  c'mon Fox, you need these? Lol.G'luck.

[FunJimmy]

BTW, I emailed RCS technical dept.
Will let you know what they say.

Heard back from the tech Dept at RCS and this is what they said.

Jim-

Sorry, I have no idea what spring rate would be necessary. 
Usually the only motorcycle applications we supply are motocross/supercross.

If you figure out the rate, feel free to get back to me and I can check to see if we have a titanium spring to fit.

Best regards-
Kyle

Nice but not nearly helpful enough.
I shouldn't have to do the R&D work for FOX!

[simon#42]

not sure why you picked these shocks in the first place , unless you want to do the development for them pick a company that has already done it .
the reason people pay top money for ohlins and wp is that they have been developing their products on race tracks all over the world for decades and know exactly what works.

if you wish to persevere with them you need to find a decent suspension specialist that can lend you a few springs on the understanding that you buy the one that works , that is quite a common practice over here . if you were closer i would send you a box full !

[calj737]

My bike is nothing exceptional.

Them's is fightin' words!  You blasphemer, how could you throw your bike into the category of ordinary 

I get your points, Jimmy. Got my fingers crossed you get what you're after, from Fox or others.

[FunJimmy]

not sure why you picked these shocks in the first place , unless you want to do the development for them pick a company that has already done it .
the reason people pay top money for ohlins and wp is that they have been developing their products on race tracks all over the world for decades and know exactly what works.

if you wish to persevere with them you need to find a decent suspension specialist that can lend you a few springs on the understanding that you buy the one that works , that is quite a common practice over here . if you were closer i would send you a box full !

You're absolutely right Simon. I chose the Fox Podium RC1 shocks because I've had nothing but great results with their mountain bike stuff and these shocks look to have a good range of tuning options. That said, Fox doesn't have a lot of experience in the street bike market and it shows. Do you have any Ohlins model numbers I should be looking at?

Thanks for setting me straight.

[MRieck]

Fox made twin and single shocks for street bikes for years. My understanding is they got out of it to focus on snowmobiles and bicycles. You have the free length and ID/OD dimensions...maybe something from YSS, Hyperpro, Eibach etc. Maybe these guys http://www.asbg.com/products/springs-overview/compression-springs.aspx?gclid=CK258NS9m8wCFVhbhgodTbcE4A

[simon#42]

this is the type of thing i had in mind

https://www.ohlins.eu/en/products/motorcycle/shock-absorber/?Brand=Honda&p=2

i know these are not exactly what you want but it should give you an idea
these are there budget model but are still very good quality shocks , when i say budget i actually mean quite expensive !
if you email them with the weight of the bike , the distance between the swing arm pivot and rear axel , the distance between the bottom shock mount and swing arm pivot and
the distance from the top shock mount and swing arm pivot they will be able to supply a spring that will work . normally they don't charge extra for this sort of thing .
wp will do the same . if you fancy something handmade for your bike have a look at maxton shocks

http://www.maxtonsuspension.co.uk/files/wr26.htm

if you do like these i am only 20 miles away and they have known me for 40 years so i could possibly help out

sorry if it sounded like i was trying to put you straight !

[bwaller]

I can't offer the correct spring rate, because I use dual springs, the short @ 80 & longer @ 120lbs. This for a 185lb rider with leathers, etc. and these are ideal for my situation.

[turboguzzi]

See FJ? assuming a ballpark average of 80-120=100 lbs/inch, that's about 1.7 kg/mm, so your 1,5 kg/mm is not that way off, roughly speaking...

[FunJimmy]

See FJ? assuming a ballpark average of 80-120=100 lbs/inch, that's about 1.7 kg/mm, so your 1,5 kg/mm is not that way off, roughly speaking...

Except I only get 7mm of sag.

[turboguzzi]

so that's a spring length issue, if at minimum preload it's still too compressed, needs to be some 10-15mm shorter or maybe some extra room can be gained in the adjusters, agree that it shouldnt be like that....

[754]

 Let me sit on it...easiest way to get more sag.....

[Stev-o]

I'd already have those shocks in the return mail after that last email!

[Camrector]

Jimmy, sorry to hear about this. My experience with the podiumR shock is quite different so far.
Mine are the podium Rs at 363mm. This is a different shock but in the same "series line". Also my 550 isn't using the stock mounts.
Sag was measured at 25mm right out of the box, and from the pictures you can see a lot of adjustment to be had.
I understand our applications are different but i just wanted to show a comparison.
You'll get it sorted!

[FunJimmy]

Jimmy, sorry to hear about this. My experience with the podiumR shock is quite different so far.
Mine are the podium Rs at 363mm. This is a different shock but in the same "series line". Also my 550 isn't using the stock mounts.
Sag was measured at 25mm right out of the box, and from the pictures you can see a lot of adjustment to be had.
I understand our applications are different but i just wanted to show a comparison.
You'll get it sorted!

This is great Cam. You may have uncovered the problem.
Can you post a pic of the spring code for comparisons?
Fox offers these shocks in 325mm, 350mm and 363mm lengths.
Did they in their infamous wisdom use the same 9" spring in all three lengths?
Looking at your pics, there's ample adjustment to fully unload the spring on the long body shock but clearly not on the short body units.

[Camrector]

that's what I'm thinking they used the same 9" spring

[Camrector]

Jimmy my springs read, Fox 900-1880-0100 (1.8kg)

[FunJimmy]

Jimmy my springs read, Fox 900-1880-0100 (1.8kg)

Thanks Cam

I find it odd that a suspension company like FOX would spec and try to squeeze a 9" spring into a short body shock and think it's OK!
It takes nothing for them to wind up an 8" spring for short shocks and a 9" for the longer versions. Corporate greed, I guess.

[dragracer]

Wow, I'm glad this thread cane up. I was contemplating a set of Fox adjustable shock for my F model dragbike to get better control of rebound and dampening for my launches. The stock shocks work okay but i know it would lower my 60' times if I could tweak the shock. You just saved me a bunch of $$$.

[calj737]

That's a pretty naive and obnoxious attitude Jimmy. Perhaps it's an oversight. Perhaps the short body shocks haven't been ordered for a configuration like yours. You often seem ready to label "corporate greed" every time what you want isn't readily available or cheap.

Did you contact Fox and provide the insight, or did you just send them a sniping email like a spoiled customer and whine and accuse them of mistreating you? You posted their replies to you, but you never posted your side of the emails. I smell a rat...

If you want semi custom shocks you need to work with vendors to get the best treatment and results. I'd bet with a polite attitude and some open dialogue, they would love to satisfy you. They sell heaps if these shocks and we have yet to see reports of dissatisfaction from buyers. So perhaps your situation is unique?

As for "winding up a spring" being trivial, that's the most obnoxious thing you've ever said. A company in production can't stop and do one-off springs simply to address a single buyer. But I'd bet they have a spring in their catalog that might work. Try that approach if you truly want a satisfactory resolution.

[FunJimmy]

That's a pretty naive and obnoxious attitude Jimmy. Perhaps it's an oversight. Perhaps the short body shocks haven't been ordered for a configuration like yours. You often seem ready to label "corporate greed" every time what you want isn't readily available or cheap.

Did you contact Fox and provide the insight, or did you just send them a sniping email like a spoiled customer and whine and accuse them of mistreating you? You posted their replies to you, but you never posted your side of the emails. I smell a rat...

If you want semi custom shocks you need to work with vendors to get the best treatment and results. I'd bet with a polite attitude and some open dialogue, they would love to satisfy you. They sell heaps if these shocks and we have yet to see reports of dissatisfaction from buyers. So perhaps your situation is unique?

As for "winding up a spring" being trivial, that's the most obnoxious thing you've ever said. A company in production can't stop and do one-off springs simply to address a single buyer. But I'd bet they have a spring in their catalog that might work. Try that approach if you truly want a satisfactory resolution.

Listen up before you start one of your rants, Cal! Where the fcuk did you get the idea I was complaining about price. These shocks cost over a grand and that's not chump change. For that I expect a quality part. Have you EVER seen me complain about costs or scrimp on my build. How dare you! I don't think there's anything short sighted when a suspension company with the expertise and knowledge like Fox chooses to use a spring across a range of shock bodies like this. It's also unacceptable for a reputable company to tell a custome that they do not offer anything softer to address the issues. You would NEVER get that from Ohlins or Works. And, YES. Corporate greed does play into desisions like this.

Oh FYI, I did not email Fox. The email response (posted one first page) from Stacey came unsolicited. Stacey was talking to Devin and sent that reply to confirm what was already discussed between Devin and myself.