Author Topic: CB350f Copper Gaskets (formerly Spark Advancer Springs) (Read 4643 times)

754 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 19, 2016, 10:12:38 AM »

Copper when annealed is very soft and can confirm to irregularities.
So perhaps it thins slightly, but for all intents a few thousandth of a inch.
Where other gasket can compress,.I am guessing. 5 though or more.

If you want to reuse copper gasket it should be annealed first.

01Thomas · « **Reply #26 on:** June 19, 2016, 10:53:16 AM »

Hi
As I read it your bike ran poorly but it started and ran until you fitted new advance/retard springs to the ignition.
Thereafter it wouldn't start at all, even though the points spark and all the plugs spark. Since then you've stripped the top-end, found fault with bores & such...

Methinks you've assembled the spark advance unit incorrectly, with the points cam being 180° out of phase. "745" alluded to it in his comment about the plug wires. That would have fixed it by fixing the symptom but not the cause. The other Fours use a similar mechanism and the fix is documented in detail somewhere else on this forum, with drawings, photos and all.

regards
Thomas

camshaft1991 · « **Reply #27 on:** June 19, 2016, 05:08:26 PM »

754: so the copper was claimed to be annealed from the website, but this was for the sheet of copper prior to being cut. So what you are saying is I need to cook my gasket a little until it becomes malleable? Could I take a butane torch to it while on the cylinder head and then torque everything down? I can't think of any other way without handling semi-molten copper.

01Thomas: How can a CB350F spark advancer go on the wrong way? It has that pin on the back so it can fit only one way on the crankshaft. Also the rotating pin in the middle that can be pulled out, looks interchangable no matter which way it goes in. Could you cite that link or know what topic to look for?

Bootsey · « **Reply #28 on:** June 19, 2016, 06:18:18 PM »

I have no idea if this applies to the 350 advancer, but check out Dave500's post - third one form the top.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,124077.msg1409069.html#msg1409069

754 · « **Reply #29 on:** June 19, 2016, 07:59:27 PM »

If a copper headgasket is to be RE USED,the it must be annealed..I think it yours WAS due to you being able to mung a metal. Chip into it..re, the hole you modified.....
Far as I know you can put the advance in two ways..not the pin part..

01Thomas · « **Reply #30 on:** June 20, 2016, 08:51:09 AM »

Bootsey has pointed you to the link that I also had in mind. The (thin) red & yellow arrows point to the alignment marks to be found on the cam-section (outer) and on the base (inner).

Hope This Helps
Thomas

camshaft1991 · « **Reply #31 on:** June 22, 2016, 04:58:28 PM »

Bootsey and 01Thomas: I can't see any indication holes on the 350F advancer, unless the divot on the side of the 2-3 mark is an indicator. There is also a thin mark on the center rotating pin. Like I said before when I installed the new advancer springs I left everything the same. I took my points out with the wires still connected. When I get everything back together I could play around with swapping points with their corresponding coils.

754: I went with the original bottom gasket. No one sells lower cylinder head gaskets made of copper and there is probably a reason or there is no reason to have it made of copper. I understand that my copper head gasket will be fine after it is torqued down and that it must be annealed after for reuse.

I finally got my cylinders honed and installed by a motorcycle shop. They had to file down my rings. I bought my rings and pistons from cruzinmage_co1484. Does anyone else get their pistons and rings through them? CMSNL is too expensive unless they have something I need that no one else has and the same goes for many other overseas bulk sellers.

My replacement intake valve doesn't come in until monday but I still have to work on relining my gas tank. Has anyone used POR15? A motorcycle shop told me the liner is good up to 5 years. I already have a kit, but one tool I found useful for removing old or bad gas tank liner is a drain grabber. I'll use washers and dry wall screws for the last bit, but only if I can't get the rest out. Last thing I want to do is puncture my tank with drywall screws. These grabbers are flexible and can pull out large chunks of liner.

pictures

1-2 spark advancer
3 flexible drain grabber

camshaft1991 · « **Reply #32 on:** June 28, 2016, 08:42:43 PM »

The POR15 kit did not clean the tank out very well so I bought two gallons of CLR. The CLR for some reason smells different than previous bottles I purchased over a year ago. It smells kind of like maple syrup and it has one of those BS environmental stamps on it. I'm going to let it sit for a week with daily rotations but I couldn't figure out how to plug my petcock holes. I tried duct tape over and over but all it did was take paint off the bottom of it. So F it, I put the petcock back on and I'll buy a rebuild kit after. This isn't a fool proof solution. I still need to put the acid in and the liner in after using CLR. I still have the por15 kit along with a bucket of left over industrial detergent I saved. Would foam earplugs work?.. I feel like the acid would dissolve it like one of those Catholic wafer chips. I did find a rubber stopper at Home Depot to plug the top of the tank, but nothing small enough to fit the tiny petcock holes.

I'm also having trouble getting my cylinder head completely flush against the cylinder rack. My copper gasket can move freely underneath it so it is not catching on anything. Is some visible gap ok before torquing?

Some of my rockers look worn but my camshaft seems ok. I'm going to get an opinion from my boys at Rad Cycles. I should have had them help me before but I thought I could save money with some joe blow mechanic. (Not to offend anyone named Joe)

Here are some pics
Cylinder head gap
CLR, gas tank, and petcock marinade

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flybox1 · « **Reply #33 on:** June 28, 2016, 09:27:59 PM »

Take out the old exhaust gaskets and put in new before mounting the headers.

camshaft1991 · « **Reply #34 on:** June 28, 2016, 09:29:16 PM »

Yup! Forgot to pick those out.

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754 · « **Reply #35 on:** June 28, 2016, 10:00:58 PM »

If head or cylinder were resurfaced, check that dowels are not too long.
Are you trying to plug the petcock. Outlets, just loop a short hose.

camshaft1991 · « **Reply #36 on:** June 28, 2016, 10:11:01 PM »

The surfaces were mated once by Arnold's Design. He also vapor blasted my engine awhile back. The dowels I bought are from CMSNL and I bought them by their part numbers. The holes where the petcock goes into are the issue not the petcock. I can't have my petcock mounted on the tank for the acid wash or when I line the tank with cream.

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754 · « **Reply #37 on:** June 28, 2016, 10:27:29 PM »

If there was resurfacing, your dowels may be too long.
Easy to srew them up if they are in hard, use a threading tap to get them out if stuck..

camshaft1991 · « **Reply #38 on:** June 29, 2016, 10:25:57 AM »

754: your right about the dowels but wrong (maybe) about the resurfacing. The engine was previously assembled with the head and cylinders mated/resurfaced. It was fine then. I think it has to do with the thickness of the copper gasket. When I ordered the sheet of copper I couldn't find a sheet with the same thickness as the oem graphite head gasket. I also took in consideration that the graphite head gasket would compress more than the copper. The graphite gasket has a 1.32mm thickness (.052") the closest size I could get to that was under which was 1.07mm (.042). The next size I saw was like 1mm over so I thought that was too much. Would my solution be to shave a quarter of a mm off my dowels? A machine shop can shave dowels right?

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camshaft1991 · « **Reply #39 on:** June 29, 2016, 10:28:00 AM »

Also how would this affect valve clearance and everything else if the cylinder head sits .25mm lower?

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camshaft1991 · « **Reply #40 on:** June 29, 2016, 10:47:13 AM »

Wait I just did something right for a change.. I have no visible gap now, but i still believe I might face issues with the dowels

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camshaft1991 · « **Reply #41 on:** June 29, 2016, 10:50:13 AM »

I can't even fit a .152mm (.006") gap tool in. I want to say I'm in the clear for no clearance

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camshaft1991 · « **Reply #42 on:** June 29, 2016, 10:53:07 AM »

I'm getting a little ahead of myself but I think this copper gasket will work if I have less than readable clearance

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camshaft1991 · « **Reply #43 on:** June 29, 2016, 11:19:14 AM »

Just has my rockers looked at and they are "perty" from what my boys at rad cycles said.

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754 · « **Reply #44 on:** June 29, 2016, 01:49:02 PM »

Put a few stripes of paper. Between head and gasket.. Push down, see if they pull out.
If you had 4 thou clearance, the 6 though would not fit,but it would never seal..

Don't guess while assembling an engine..check..double check..then check again.

camshaft1991 · « **Reply #45 on:** June 29, 2016, 01:58:50 PM »

What about plastigage? I still have a few strips left over from measuring my crank case journals.

Does anyone know what the cylinder head clearance should be if there is a clearance that should not be exceeded?

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camshaft1991 · « **Reply #46 on:** June 29, 2016, 02:04:53 PM »

I can do better than paper.. I have to so I know I won't f it up

Which stick should I use? Red or green

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754 · « **Reply #47 on:** June 29, 2016, 02:06:51 PM »

ZerO clearance., I bet you can find paper. Does the 6 thou feeler have others attached to it?

camshaft1991 · « **Reply #48 on:** June 29, 2016, 02:15:17 PM »

My feeler gauge only goes down to .152mm. Would white printer paper work? And is there a clearance where oil can't travel through? Guessing that has to be less than .025mm (.001")?

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camshaft1991 · « **Reply #49 on:** June 29, 2016, 02:42:54 PM »

Should I put the strips of paper under torque or or just free weight of the cylinder head?

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Author Topic: CB350f Copper Gaskets (formerly Spark Advancer Springs) (Read 4643 times)