Author Topic: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build  (Read 9214 times)

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Offline b.linden

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-75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build
« on: May 09, 2016, 01:18:28 PM »
Hey everyone!
 First of, huge thanks to all of you, basically everything I now know about building and restoring motorbikes(or essentially, and specifically My motorbike) I learned from here, so big ups!

 Anyways, bought a cb500 in working but kind of rugged condition last august, with the intention of restoring it and making in look like the bike of my dreams 8)

So this is kind of a recap of whats been done, a tale told in pictures! I do have i couple of questions, but saving those for future posts.


 the day I picked up the bike, humbe beginnings!

Next was the whole teardown thing, skipping a few steps here..


some frame mods was made! Detabbing, fitted rear hoop, electronics tray, raised custom seat brackets to make room for electronics(i.e battery) an so on.


started taking the engine apart. I knew it was working, but it was leaky as s**t, and never having worked with an engine before, I was curious! so i took it all apart ;D but we'll get back to that later!



cleaned up the valves with a wirebrush, easy enough. Then tried my hand at some "light" porting, mostly because i was balls deep in cleaning 40y old dirt from the cases and head at the time, and got incredible infuriated and wanted to give up cause that dirt is awful and i hate it. so needed something else to do to, and porting seamed kind of fun! I think it turned out alright.
 Didn't mention it before, but om doing almost no performance upgrades, just want it running reliably. Now you're probably thinking "what an idiot"(cuz the porting) but as i said, did it for the fun of it(also didn't read up enough before i started and found out about the minuscule and possibly nonexisting benefits of it until after, but lets stay with "hey, it was fun" :-[ )


two neat tricks from this site! the "grind the edges of a thick washer then bang like hell" and " two sockets and a vice", thank you for that ;D later installed brass bushings in the swingarm. Cameo from my father!


didn't know a bike could look like ths!?


next up was some work on the wheels! the tires are actually almost brand new metzler tires, so dont feel the need to change those! and to get the bike going as soon as possible, I decided not to do that much work on the wheels. some sanding of the spokes, cleaning and a hack paintjob (that actually turned out great) i did install new bearings though. And those retainers was a true PITA. I think it took two or three weeks from my first try at the rear one until I finally got it out

yeah, retainer 1 - homemede tool 0


when removing the retainer, I apparently f''d up the threads in the hub, so had to grind the first three of four laps of with a dremel to get the retainer back in.. used threadlock and punched the holes to keep it in place.


time to paint the wheels. saw this great trick for masking of the tire instead of tape, which is hard to do between the rim and the tire. I would know because i found out about this trick AFTER painting the first tire..
 this is how they turned out and i'm super happy with it!


condition of the spokes before sanding and paint, will hopefully relace the wheels next winter, and then powdercoat them to get it done properly.


some painted parts.

oh yeah, frame and parts sandblasted and powdercoated!


rebuilt the forks and fitted new rear shocks. in this pic there mounted with the rubbers that came with them. as you can see, they're way to short, and were also to tight and way to har to mount. ended up ordering oem honda rubbers and dome bolts, and worked perfect with them!


And THIS is how she stands right now, kind of mocked up with handlebars and headlight, and the wheels aren't completely done. missing an o ring for the front and the felt dust cover for the rear brake, and a couple of pins.



 In the next post, a short story about how I made the seat!
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 05:58:03 PM by b.linden »

Offline b.linden

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Re: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build, halfway(ish) there!
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2016, 01:05:33 PM »
so, question about the seal in the rear hub. is it supposed to fit inside the bearing retainer? or just be held in place by the "plate" that sits outside the sprocket? because it do not fit inside the retainer, and now just sits kinda loose between the retainer and the plate..
 see the attached pics for the order I assembled in:

Offline b.linden

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Re: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build, halfway(ish) there!
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2016, 04:39:27 PM »
Starting to get around to the engine now, spent probably a million hours this week sanding and cleaning the cases for paint. will probably get around to painting the cases this weekend.
 as of now, I'm happy with the exterior, just a couple of kerosene (possible translation misshap, English is not my first language) wipe downs and it should be ready for paint. I want to get the insides as clean as possible before I paint, to avoid chipping or messing up the paint while cleaning the inside.
 Planning to take them to a DIY wash room tomorrow and blast them with a high pressure wash to remove any remaining debris in there (also taking my cylinder block and head, sandblasted them today, carefully and masked of with plugged holes, but probably a lot of sand left on them).
 So is there anything else i should so to the cases before starting assembly? or is just drying and blowing air through them efter the power wash enough?

Attaching a couple on photos of the latest progress.
 -removed broken bolt from case (Imagine my happiness when it came out!!)


 -lapped valve seats, left is lapped intake, right is unlapped.


 -mock up of the engine, and a great drill attachment to remove old paint and grime that is really kind to the alu.


 -testing rider position, crucial step!


Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build, halfway(ish) there!
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2016, 05:26:21 PM »
Nice job getting that cylinder stud out.

From looking at the photo, you might want to consider using rearsets in conjunction with the clip-ons. Unfortunately, brat seats are not always the most compatible design with a sport riding position and clip-ons. 
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
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"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline b.linden

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Re: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build, halfway(ish) there!
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2016, 05:30:27 PM »
Nice job getting that cylinder stud out.

From looking at the photo, you might want to consider using rearsets in conjunction with the clip-ons. Unfortunately, brat seats are not always the most compatible design with a sport riding position and clip-ons.

that would be nice, I really do want to be able to have a passenger though.. But hey, I'm pretty limber! I'll just throw my feet up on the passenger pegs for longer rides :):)

Offline gtacb750

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Re: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build, halfway(ish) there!
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2016, 06:31:01 PM »
What type of wheel did you use to clean the cases?

Anyone with more experience having any input on it? I was very tempted to try and not use abrasives during my rebuild in case of it being left in the cases but it looks so pretty.

Offline b.linden

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Re: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build, halfway(ish) there!
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2016, 07:03:31 PM »
What type of wheel did you use to clean the cases?

Anyone with more experience having any input on it? I was very tempted to try and not use abrasives during my rebuild in case of it being left in the cases but it looks so pretty.

I think its called a nylon wire wheel.. in the pictures the case is also sanded with 400 grit paper. since I'm painting it im not going to any higher grit.
With abrasives do you mean blasting it?

Offline b.linden

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Re: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build, halfway(ish) there!
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2016, 05:57:14 PM »
So I have the cases painted and pretty much ready to go! Just waiting for my new primary chain (the bottom case showed some wear marks, don't want to take any chances), cam chain and HD studs(accidentally broke some of the old ones ::)).
 When i took the engine apart i just put all the internals in sealed plastic bags and boxes, are the good to go or should they be cleaned, oiled or prepped in som way before assembling the engine?
 Also, the crank has been stored on an bench under a cloth.. could've done that better.. so Im thinking that I should clean that before putting it in, since there is a possibility it picked up som kind or foreign material during the vinter. any thoughts on that? and whats the best way to clean it up? is it OK to just degrease, rinse with water and then oil it up a bit? note: the con rods are still on the crank.

Offline calj737

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Re: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2016, 07:17:03 PM »
I would encourage you to NOT rinse any internals with water. Empty cases, sure.
But not the hard parts. I like Diesel. Rinse, wipe down, then coat with assembly lube as appropriate. Assemble and ride.

I like Diesel because it is a solvent and a lubricant in one. Easy enough to get, pretty cheap for a gallon too. Wear glove else your hands (and all rags) will stink for days. Best not let the wife catch you rinsing parts in the house  :o
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2016, 07:50:43 PM »
Loving this so far!  Keep up the great build log b.linden.  No issues with the english by the way 8) sounding good!

I would encourage you to NOT rinse any internals with water. Empty cases, sure.
But not the hard parts. I like Diesel. Rinse, wipe down, then coat with assembly lube as appropriate. Assemble and ride.

I like Diesel because it is a solvent and a lubricant in one. Easy enough to get, pretty cheap for a gallon too. Wear glove else your hands (and all rags) will stink for days. Best not let the wife catch you rinsing parts in the house  :o

Cool tip Cal, I will give this is a shot on my engine!

Offline b.linden

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Re: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2016, 04:26:37 AM »
I would encourage you to NOT rinse any internals with water. Empty cases, sure.
But not the hard parts. I like Diesel. Rinse, wipe down, then coat with assembly lube as appropriate. Assemble and ride.

I like Diesel because it is a solvent and a lubricant in one. Easy enough to get, pretty cheap for a gallon too. Wear glove else your hands (and all rags) will stink for days. Best not let the wife catch you rinsing parts in the house  :o
thanks! Will try the diesel for the crank. The transmission and other parts thats been stored in boxes I will probably just put back in as is. 
« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 08:15:38 AM by b.linden »

Offline b.linden

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Re: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2016, 04:29:55 AM »
Loving this so far!  Keep up the great build log b.linden.  No issues with the english by the way 8) sounding good!

Thanks man! Enjoying the ride so far  ;D

Offline b.linden

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Re: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2016, 12:17:16 PM »
Started putting the engine together now, and the transmission is pretty much done. Just unsure about The neutral switch or what its called. this thing

The way I figured was that when the transmission is in neutral, the "high point" on the rubber thing, or the spot with coppar plating, should be touching the switch ?? is this correct?
 In the manual there is a wague description of lining up a groove in the gear shift drum with the switch, but it was way to hard to see to make any real sense of it! So I just manually lined gears up(neutral) and the set the rubber thing in that position. I'm pretty sure this is correct, but a confirmation would be greatly appreciated!

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2016, 10:43:48 PM »
Looks like your neutral switch is missing the wire from the loop on the brass terminal at the 1 o'clock position.

Also, your rear bearing should be a pressed in fit. Are you sure you bought the correct bearing for your wheel. The old bearing has a number on it that a bearing shop could match up if you don't have the correct sized one.

Dropping the front forks in the triple trees will change your rake and trail and thus the nice crisp handling of the bike unless you adjust the rear ride height to compensate. The fork tubes on the late 550s ('77 - '78) are longer than the '74-76 bikes, fwiw. I think the fork lowers are different (shorter?) as well.

Need to fix the bearing problem in the rear.

Download the Honda Shop manual from the sohc/4 site for your 550.
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline b.linden

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Re: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2016, 09:26:03 AM »
Looks like your neutral switch is missing the wire from the loop on the brass terminal at the 1 o'clock position.

Also, your rear bearing should be a pressed in fit. Are you sure you bought the correct bearing for your wheel. The old bearing has a number on it that a bearing shop could match up if you don't have the correct sized one.

Dropping the front forks in the triple trees will change your rake and trail and thus the nice crisp handling of the bike unless you adjust the rear ride height to compensate. The fork tubes on the late 550s ('77 - '78) are longer than the '74-76 bikes, fwiw. I think the fork lowers are different (shorter?) as well.

Need to fix the bearing problem in the rear.

Download the Honda Shop manual from the sohc/4 site for your 550.

I probably just pulled the wire when i dissasembled. Its still on the wire harness.

Yeah, the bearing is fine, its pressed in! its the bearing seal thats giving me trouble.. it came with the all balls bearings. the old seal didnt fit either, which I think is wierd.. in the pictures i took when i took it apart the seal also seems to just be loosely fitted to the retainer. its like 1mm to big to fit inside the retainer, so just seams odd that it wouldent me meant to fit

I have lower shocks than stock, but will adjust more when im closer to a finished bike!

Offline b.linden

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Re: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2016, 03:55:35 PM »
Today was finally the day the cases were supposed to go together! Everything started out fine, lubed stuff up, put hondabond on the mating surfaces, and lowered the bottom case on to the upper. It kinda fit...just a smaaaaall gap around the transmission. At first I thought the roller bearing on the counter-shaft had popped out of position and the pin was in the way, but after a quick check it turned out to be in the right position. After some more fruitless troubleshooting I removed the bottom case from the upper. And then i saw the real problem.. The hole in the roller bearing and the pin was aligned, just not completely matched. I Pushed/lightly forced the bearing down on the pin, and the pin went into the hole. BUT now the bearing on the other side popped out of position (the C-clip). after som jiggling that didn't to the job, I pushed down on both sides and both the bearings popped in to place, yeey!
 A short minute of relief, until i tried turning the transmission... something is putting pressure somewhere and the trans in extremely hart to turn. Ill admit that i dont know how hard it is supposed to be, but I imagine that its supposed to, at least kind of, spin freely. I can barely hold the countershaft still when turning the main when its in neutral.
 My patience and knowledge is exhausted at this point. Can anyone tell me what this means? is the gears meshing to hard? and what could have caused that?
 In my moment of despair, i turn to you, SOHC gurus, for enlightenment. please help.
 //Björn

Offline b.linden

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Re: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2016, 11:30:39 AM »
A short problem update. It turns out the countershaft won't turn even with the mainshaft out. So working theory is that when "forcing" the bearing into place it puts some kind of load on one of them, probably the ball-bearing. It could be that the bearing isn't pushed far enough out towards the sprocket on the shaft, causing it to slightly "twist" when pushing it in place on the c-clip. Next step I suppose is taking the gars of the shaft and inspecting the bearings fitment.

Offline budman

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Re: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build, halfway(ish) there!
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2016, 12:01:41 PM »
Neat trick with the playing cards.  Looking good.

What type of wheel did you use to clean the cases?

Anyone with more experience having any input on it? I was very tempted to try and not use abrasives during my rebuild in case of it being left in the cases but it looks so pretty.

They sell them at Harbor Freight in the US.  They work pretty good.
http://www.harborfreight.com/2-in-80-grit-nylon-abrasive-cup-wheel-with-14-in-shank-60512.html
Bud

1973 CB750K3 Chopper
2021 Indian Scout

Offline b.linden

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Re: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2016, 05:17:48 PM »
A short problem update. It turns out the countershaft won't turn even with the mainshaft out. So working theory is that when "forcing" the bearing into place it puts some kind of load on one of them, probably the ball-bearing. It could be that the bearing isn't pushed far enough out towards the sprocket on the shaft, causing it to slightly "twist" when pushing it in place on the c-clip. Next step I suppose is taking the gars of the shaft and inspecting the bearings fitment.

Problem solved! there was a washer between the first gear and the needle bearing that wasn't supposed to be there according to the manual and parts fiche. the washer kept the hole in the bearing to match up properly with the pin by not letting the bearing close enough to the gears. the PO probably put it there because there is a washer between the needle bearing and the gears on the main-shaft, but apparently not on the counter-shaft. The pics show the gap the washer filled.

Offline b.linden

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Re: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2016, 10:15:08 AM »
been a while! moved out of my home town this fall to go to school, so haven't been able to do anything on the bike this fall. BUT i did get some stuff done before I moved which I haven't posted here yet.
 got the engine back together, no big issues.. a couple minor ones but they all got sorted out. Also got the engine in the frame, had the tank painted and went through the carbs, which turned out to be in great shape!
 Attaching a couple of pictures, and posting sometime soon again about what I'm gonna do next (electrics ugh, I'm scared..)

Offline AlBundy

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Re: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2016, 02:30:18 AM »
Where in Sweden are you located? I am also bulding a cb500.

Offline b.linden

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Re: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2016, 06:21:26 AM »
Where in Sweden are you located? I am also bulding a cb500.

 Oh awsome! Just read your thread, might use your wiring diagram as a guide;)
 In Sollentuna, just north of Stockholm!

Offline AlBundy

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Re: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2016, 12:58:48 AM »
Nice! I'm down in Malmö. You are free to use it. If you need help with it just ask. I might be able to help. If not Calj has all the answers about m unit.

Offline b.linden

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Re: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2016, 09:00:29 AM »
Thanks, will be very useful since the only difference between your diagram and my wiring is that I don't use a starter motor!

 Finished the alternator today! soldered the three broken yellow wires from the stator, and assembled the "new harness" from the alternator.
before:



after:


« Last Edit: December 31, 2016, 09:08:49 AM by b.linden »

Offline AlBundy

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Re: -75 honda cb500 cafe/brat build
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2017, 02:08:11 AM »
How many cans did u use to paint the engine? Which paint, and also did u use primer?