Author Topic: Show me your steering dampers!  (Read 30768 times)

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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #50 on: May 12, 2016, 01:57:31 PM »
I wouldn't drive my car out of the driveway without my seatbelt on, it doesn't matter how slow or careful you might be driving, you can't account for all the other morons on the road. Belt up and live!

As much as those steering dampers in the pics look cool, I've seen a heap over the years with quite a bit of slack in them before the actual damping starts to work, this was common in the crappy Kawasaki copies that were all over eBay a while ago.

Personally, it'd be of little benefit to have one on a bike, so it'd be a good idea to check your damper regularly for a smooth even damping motion for the full range of movement.

I've got a much better rotary damper on my BMW R1100GS, it Mounts on the top triple so is easily adjusted on the fly, but very expensive compared to the old style dampers in the pics above. Cheers, Terry. ;D
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Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #51 on: May 12, 2016, 03:27:57 PM »
I added my damper just due to fear. After watching tank slap videos I went right to purchase one. It's relatively easy to install and can dramatically help. As others said, it's not a devise to put a bandaid on your bikes issues, but a nice complimentary add on. But it's not only bike problems that can cause them, road oddities and large bumps can start them too. So even if your bike is rock steady a damper can even further protect you.

We're pretty exposed out there. People, animals, pot holes, sand...they're all trying to kill you. In my eyes, another little helping hand is welcomed with open arms.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #52 on: May 12, 2016, 04:00:41 PM »
Quote
Delta, if you don't know why dampers are used, after being told numerous times already,  its a waste of time explaining it over and over again..
OK, then let me ask this:
Did any of you that experienced wobbles, tank slappers and the like*:
a) Inform Honda that there's something seriously wrong with their product and a steering damper should have been provided?
b) Inform US authorities there's a serious safety issue that needs to be adressed? I'd recommend to report it to the same authorities that did such a wonderful job on warning stickers and mirrors (objects in this mirror...). There can be no doubt they take things very serious indeed.
c) Inform road authorities there's a dangerous situation on road such and such and a warning sign would be the least they could do, responsible as they are for these third world quality roads in the first place?
d) Now we all know how hard it is to pass the US license test. Not only you are supposed to tell your left from your right blinker, you should also know the difference between a green and a red light AND HOW TO ACT and most important of all: the infamous rolling stop at a stopsign that has to be avoided AT ALL TIMES (oh, boy, oh boy, that one tough). Now, are there any of you steering damper users that did take an advanced motorcycle training, like motorcyclecops undergo?
e) Is there an explanation why (overhere) to my memory I've not seen steering dampers on police patrol bikes? And do you think I can sue the unresponsible police trainers that not only showed up on a bike without a damper but also failed to warn us we should start with mounting one?
I apologise in advance for wasting your time.
* Yes, I've often experienced the usual unrest at around 60 km/h. Nothing to worry about as long as both hands rest on the handlebars and yes, I've experienced (only a few) speed weeves at speeds over 160 km/h. Nothing to worry about, just don't sit upright but lower your chest (again) to the tank.

Ok, seams the strawman is alive and well in this post. Lets put a few myths to bed here. The CB750 was designed and built in the late 1960's, the frames virtually remained unchanged for about 10 years, we were no where near the advancements we now take for granted on todays motorcycles, most Japanese bikes of this era were well known for their evil handling traits, these were caused by poor geometry and poor frame design, weak swingarms and poorly damped suspension didn't help either. The early K models were know for their ability to oscillate into a tank slapper due to their relatively small trail numbers, around 3.7 inches, even todays sport bikes with quicker steering 17 inch wheels have trail closer to or just above 4 inches, there's a good reason for this but these bikes still have steering dampers from the factory. Honda went a way to rectifying this in the F models and later K models by reducing trail by 10 mm and adding a little to the rake, both of these changes aided stability, but there's still no problem or reason you shouldn't use a steering damper, its an insurance policy that works and makes riding a motorcycle just a bit safer. It doesn't matter how well you set up a stock motorcycle, there's always the chance you'll get a tank slapper, the causes aren't always a poorly maintained bike, they are caused by resonant frequencies, and it only takes a small bump and the right set of circumstances and it happens, and its scary as hell. I've had 2 tank slappers, one caused by loose steering head bearings on a GT550 Suzuki, I was asked to ride it to see if I could identify why it was wobbling, I ended riding uncontrolled off the side of the road and into a park, that could easily have been worse, the 2nd was on a very well set up 750/4, It had new Koni shocks, tapered steering head bearings good tires and the front end of my mates 750/4 race bike {where i bought my first RC engineering parts}, at that time it was the best handling bike I'd owned and I used to have fun blowing my mates off in the back streets locally, I was riding it quite fast and tipped into a bend in the road, hit a small bump and it went into a violent tank slapper that damaged my steering stop and dented my tank with my thumbs, after that I fitted a damper on that bike, and rode the wheels off it for another couple of years.  If delta is lucky enough to live in a country with perfect flat roads and all motorcycles ever sold to his country were perfect then great, in reality, there are plenty of things that can cause a bike to experience instability, check all the moving parts on your bike, when you are happy its all working as intended, then fit a damper as piece of mind if you want, they DO WORK and are a great little insurance policy...  All modern sport bikes have them stock... ;)

Well, not wanting to argue with the armchair experts here, but Honda actually supplied a (non adjustable) steering damper as an optional item, along with a right hand front brake disc/caliper assembly, an oil cooler, you name it, you could buy it, as an optional extra, they just didn't install them on their bikes in the factory to keep the price down.

I'm not for a moment saying that for everyday use you actually need one, but hell, for 100 bucks they're cheap insurance. Cheers, Terry. ;D

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Offline Deltarider

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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #53 on: May 13, 2016, 02:53:52 AM »
First: I do not deny that there are certain bikes that under circumstances could benefit from a steering damper but I'm far from recommending them categorally for just any ordinary bike. Then I'd like to dive somewhat deeper in it, so, Terry, if you can give me a partsnumber or anything of the steeringdamper Honda marketed, I'll have a look at it. Having not seen them here I'd like to know whether it is genuine Honda or maybe Honda Australia. This because I know merchandising and where in one market Honda will have mugs with the Honda logo, I wouldn't be surprised that in another local market they do accessories. For example  I've seen VDO oilpressure and -temperature gauges that had the Honda logo. I doubt very much they were Honda btw, the quality was poor (plastic gadgetry) and I've only seen them once.
Now before the usual horror videos dive up with nothing but anecdotal value, I'd recommend to watch this video say from 04:00. Although the sound is a bit poor, the content is very instructive indeed. Most of the bikes shown are of our category and generation. There's some good advice on how to prevent and deal with wobble and weave. Note that in over 13 minutes the word steeringdamper is not used once.
As said before, I experienced some wobbles and at sustained high speeds (>160 km/h) a few weaves but they never made me panick (training?) and the tendecy of the latter was cured by a set of Koni rear shocks. I've put a question on the German site how steeringdampers relate to their annual 'TÜV' test and if they're allowed at all. As soon as I know more, I'll inform you.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 03:41:44 AM by Deltarider »
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #54 on: May 13, 2016, 03:07:19 AM »
The bike will be more unstable with bags and lots of luggage. Not properly tightened front end, swingarm bolt...
..one more thing... the wobble usually start after 160kmh (>100mph).
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 03:10:40 AM by PeWe »
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #55 on: May 13, 2016, 03:49:24 AM »
G'Day Mate, No, they weren't an Australia specific part, but I saw them in Honda dealers "back in the day". I've got a genuine period Honda steering damper in a box that a friend in Oregon sent me years ago, so next weekend when I'm back in Melbourne I can take a pic if you like and see if I can find a part number, they were a common damper that Honda supplied for use on a lot of their bikes back in the 60's and early 70's. Cheers, Terry. ;D   
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Offline bwaller

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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #56 on: May 13, 2016, 04:32:07 AM »
Here's a picture only, I'm not jumping into this.  ;D



Offline brewsky

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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #57 on: May 13, 2016, 05:00:34 AM »
Here's mine!! ;)
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Offline strynboen

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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #58 on: May 13, 2016, 05:54:40 AM »
here is mine on a 69 cb 77... ;D.
.still dont vant one on my cb sohc...uh it not on the Photo...but mostly as the above.
.the handel is just a  bit different .
.it dont aktuly damping..just sqvesse a bit..so it teighten up..not as a hydralik one do..so not aktuly a damper..just teighting the stering

..different animals vith the same name
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 06:01:07 AM by strynboen »
i kan not speak english/but trying!!
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=60973.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144758.0
i hate all this v-w.... vords

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #59 on: May 13, 2016, 06:32:22 AM »
Thanks guys. That looks like an exciting spedometer, Strynboen, must be fun to make them needles go wild.
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Offline Stev-o

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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #60 on: May 13, 2016, 07:06:24 AM »
Seems the engineers felt the need for some type of dampening on the 60's bikes.

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Offline Deltarider

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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #61 on: May 13, 2016, 08:30:53 AM »
Quote
.still dont vant one on my cb sohc...
And neither will I.
1. Never had anything happening in over 100.000 kms on all imaginable kinds of roads in Europe.
2. My dealer back then who owned a CB500 himself (and could easily have sold me one), informed me I didn't need one.
3. I look after my bike. Bushings, tyres, bearings are all in good order. Koni rear shocks cured the exceptional weave I experienced.
4. Never seen one on a CB500P (police)
5. Trainers didn't have one on theirs and neither did they advise us we should have one.
6. I don't like the looks. In fact, I think it looks silly, like some sort of crutch but that's personal.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 08:38:00 AM by Deltarider »
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Offline nobody

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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #62 on: May 13, 2016, 08:47:31 AM »
To each their own but I wobbled and weaved and crashed on the highway at 80 miles an hour, that #$%* hurt. While I respect that worn out suspension caused the crash, and am currently rebuilding the bike to address such issues, I'm simply not interested in doing that again.

So when you crash a bike at 80 and decide you don't care about adding a damper when all your busted body parts heal up and you get back on your bike again, by all means, that's your choice. But I never came here asking if you thought I needed one, so please stop turning what I intended to be a technical thread about how to mount a damper and what options are available into this ridiculously immature argument over who needs them and who doesn't.

I don't want to wobble to the ground again, I want a damper. Period.

Thank you to those who included valid technical input. It's appreciated.
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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #63 on: May 13, 2016, 09:01:04 AM »
Save your money and get something that is more adequate for you:




Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #64 on: May 13, 2016, 09:34:30 AM »
Save your money and get something that is more adequate for you:



Totally! This Matthew guy is a really baby. Only real men don't like safety. I bet you wear a helmet and heed traffic lights too while not drinking alcohol, LOSER!

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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #65 on: May 13, 2016, 09:52:15 AM »

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #66 on: May 13, 2016, 10:02:10 AM »
Quote
But I never came here asking if you thought I needed one, so please stop turning what I intended to be a technical thread about how to mount a damper and what options are available into this ridiculously immature argument over who needs them and who doesn't.

I don't want to wobble to the ground again, I want a damper. Period.
This is a forum.That means more people than just you read the posts. That's the idea of a forum. Sorry, I hurt your feelings although I could do it a bit more: try to buy good well known parts for your bike instead of aftermarket junk the quality of which has been disputed here for years. But then, you never came here asking about that either. Good thing is: you had not just one but two boxes to open, lucky you!
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Offline nobody

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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #67 on: May 13, 2016, 10:12:34 AM »
Think what you want, my feelings aren't hurt. It just annoys me how frequently the internet devolves into nonsense.

But thanks anyways.
74 cb750k

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Offline nobody

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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #68 on: May 13, 2016, 10:14:50 AM »
Just don't feel like such activity is really necessary, it pushes people away from what could otherwise be a vibrant community of auto enthusiasts.
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #69 on: May 13, 2016, 12:14:13 PM »
This is the good part of a forum, technical discussions that sometimes turns a little bit hot. All has experiences support an idea or oppsosite. Write about it and we all will learn things based on experiences.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2016, 12:04:42 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #70 on: May 13, 2016, 03:49:22 PM »
Think what you want, my feelings aren't hurt. It just annoys me how frequently the internet devolves into nonsense.

But thanks anyways.

Matt, these same people do this almost every time this subject comes up, I could link you to at least half a dozen threads that this has happened in, some of the same people every time. Use what you want, as Terry said, dampers were actually a factory accessory {also been discusses on the forum previously}, the lower triple clamp is already threaded to accept the damper, they DO help, regardless of what is said by the detractors. Notice its the people that don't use them that think they don't work or know how to use them..? 

Seems the engineers felt the need for some type of dampening on the 60's bikes.

Almost every modern bike too Steve, and a damper can be bought for every bike, strange that there's a market that big for dampers but they are completely useless, according to some... ;)
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Offline toytuff

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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #71 on: May 13, 2016, 04:13:32 PM »
OK, OK, I'll show mine.

Offline Rookster

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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #72 on: May 13, 2016, 08:03:41 PM »
Here's mine.  It's hard to get a good pic in the garage.

Frame clamp


Mounted to the lower tree mount


Scott
« Last Edit: May 14, 2016, 02:07:20 PM by Rookster »

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #73 on: May 14, 2016, 12:14:46 AM »
Quote
Ah, Delta, once again you show up to a basketball game with a softball mitt... ::)o
Ah, calj737, once again you show up with that weary look (also Retro has this habit) when you can't deliver hard evidence. I think I've asked some good questions in the beginning of this thread and then there's the video and there's the experts (people that I call experts and are on a bike for a profession), then there is the law and I can go on, all sound arguments. I would at least have expected some of you to present a study proving I and others are wrong, but alas (again). Look, the fact is: I don't know you nor do I know your riding skills. Then I don't know your bike. is it well looked after? Is it modified? Was it damaged? I've seen 750s going over the road crabwise. If a steeringdamper on a modified bike works for you, fine and don't let the pleasure of giving yourself a present be spoiled by others, but please don't make people believe they can't do without, not with just anecdotes.
If I understand things well, there are people that 'cure' a rotten bike with a damper and there are people that say it's a good thing (the usual best insurance bla bla). That's irresponsible.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2016, 12:32:56 AM by Deltarider »
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Show me your steering dampers!
« Reply #74 on: May 14, 2016, 12:35:12 AM »
Quote
Ah, Delta, once again you show up to a basketball game with a softball mitt... ::)o
How about you then? I think I've asked some good questions in the beginning of this thread and then there's the video and there's the experts (people that I call experts and are on a bike for a profession), then there is the law and I can go on, all sound arguments. Now I would at least have expected some of you to present a study. Look, the fact is: I don't know you nor your riding skills and I don't know your bike (is it well looked after?). If a steeringdamper works for you, fine and don't let the pleasure giving yourself a present be spoiled by me, but please don't make people believe they can't do without, not with just anecdotes.
If I understand things well, there are people that 'cure' a rotten bike with a damper and there are people that say it's a good thing (the usual best insurance bla bla). That's irresponsible.

Rubbish Delta, the exact same argument could be used against everything you've said, I don't even know why you're here....?  Another thing a damper does is take steering pressure away from your arms allowing you to be more relaxed, especially on a long ride, have you ever even used one..?  Study, thats laughable, you do understand the physics of a motorcycle..?  Do you think all the manufacturers fitting them to their bikes are all wrong..?  Seriously mate, there are heaps of points raised as to why they are a great accessory and what they actually do, you just don't want to hear it, no one is "making" anyone believe anything thats not true, telling people it's irresponsible to use a damper as insurance is the stupidest thing you've said yet... Go do your own study and get back to us then...
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750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.