Topic: Show me your steering dampers!

[PeWe]

Fact is that a steering damper helped my bike to not get wobble. Driving uphills in the alps with passsenger, overloaded bike with luggage need extra stabilty when the downforce at front disappear by a small twist with the throttle.

Shocks were Marzocchi AG Strada, needle bearings in swingarm that was tightened, front tapered roller bearings that were tightened with no "clonk" when using front brake. Rims and tires good and all wheel bearings too. No leak in fork indicating a lash.

My bike feels more stable than ever this year. I had a lash in front that could be fixed by tighten the top nut on tripple tree. Lower bearing race probably not seated correctly when assemble the bike 2013 after frame paint. Race seated by use leaving a lash.

This in combination with Dunlop StreetSmart tires that gave bike good handling with very quick reaction into corners. Leaning the bike and it react direct.
The steering damper was replaced end of last year with a better bracket. I think it make bike stable even with lowest setting.

The CB750 had a nickname as "Wobbling fence" here back in the days!   Installing longer fork pipes, replacing front fender without bracing and 16" rear rim with fatter tire was a perfect method to get wobble before 100mph. Brake into a corner (to 30-50mph) lean the bike and give full throttle. The rear wheel jumped around followed by the front.

I scared friends behind me that were sure that they saw me riding to my death:) I remember some events when I considered to abandon the ship before the bike went into the forest just beside the road in 100mph or more, sometimes could WOT help, or no more power available. I hanged on like riding a mechanical bull running out of control.
I mounted a steering damper when going back to std wheels, fork and better shocks.

Z1-900 was not that stable either according what I heard back then.

[Deltarider]

 

Do you think all the manufacturers fitting them to their bikes are all wrong..?

No, please read what I've wrote before: certain bikes under circumstances may benefit from a damper. Pewe's 750 is a good example*. And if a manufacturer thinks it is wise to deliver bike such and such with a damper, it's a good thing. Who would I be to question that? But that doesn't imply that just anyone on any standard bike needs one. Don't you think it would have been law a very long time? 

I don't even know why you're here....?

Your tone... really. Let's say that if I wasn't here, soon enough there would be somebody else to destinguish between proven facts and anecdotes. Then, one can never rule out the what I call the 'Now that I've spent money on it, it must be good bias'. But feel free to present as much studies as possible. I couldn't find them.
* My own bike when packed feels even better and more solid on the road than without luggage but there are ways and ways to pack. I never ride two up. The scariest thing that ever happened to me was on the Italian autostrada entering a tunnel at 130 km/h. All of a sudden it was like the bike and I was floating on air. Although the bike continued fine and undisturbed in a straigh line, no unrest whatsoever, I felt that even the slightiest move of me would have sent me into the wall or even the ceiling. It was like there was hardly anymore roadcontact and we were hoovering. It was very scary and I was in fear of death. Even now, when I think of it, I start sweating. It happened only once and I still don't know what caused it. Must have been the design of the tunnel that somehow created lift.

[Retro Rocket]

Do you think all the manufacturers fitting them to their bikes are all wrong..?

No, please read what I've wrote before: certain bikes under circumstances may benefit from a damper. And if a manufacturer thinks it is wise to deliver bike such and such with a damper, it's a good thing. Who would I be to question that? But that doesn't imply that just anyone on any standard bike needs one. Don't you think it then would have been law a very long time? 

I don't even know why you're here....?

Your tone... really. Let's say that if I wasn't here, soon enough there would be somebody else to destinguish between proven facts and what I call the 'Now that I've spent money on it, it must be good bias'. But feel free to present as much studies as possible. I couldn't find them.

You don't get it at all, these old bikes were far from "best practice" at the time, they were ground breaking but NOT the best handling bikes around, suspension on a motorcycle is a comprised technology. Lets forget the Honda, lets talk Kawasaki H2750, an evil handling bike that works far better with a damper, feel free to ride without one but you'll convince no one that knows the bike that its "irresponsible", {your words} to recommend one, quite the opposite.  Why should it be law..? Its not law to use the best tires , shocks, oil,  chain, brake pads,  I could go on but I'm sure you get the point, most of those things can make any bike safer. Your last statement is your opinion and crap, once again, HAVE YOU EVER USED ONE...? Do you even take time out to understand why they are used...?  Your "study" claim is  ridiculous, simply because you can't get your head around why they are a useful accessory  to some, doesn't mean a damn thing, {they have been used for well over 50 years}, go read about them and why they are used, I've used them on every bike I've owned, fitted some myself and bought bikes that had them fitted at the factory, I've even changed out a factory non adjustable one for an adjustable one, I love them and definitely notice the difference, I like to be able to adjust it to suit my riding style, or where I ride, and I like the improved stability and the FACT that they take out a lot of small movements from the bars on a long ride,  means you can relax more, making it more comfortable and safer, as it aids in fatigue management, all valid points and FACT. You've been in this very same discussion before on the forum, saying exactly the same things, simply because you deem them unnecessary, means you continue to dismiss them without valid reason, no one is forcing anyone to use them and using one will certainly NOT hinder any motorcycle. You may not need it at all, until the very moment you need it, then its too late..
Here you go...

A steering stabilizer is a suspension system for the side-to-side motion of your front end. If you have ever watched racing you may have witnessed what a violent head shake can do. If not check out this video for a graphic illustration. A steering stabilizer works in a way that's similar to your bike's front forks. Internal circuitry and hydraulic valving adjusts the amount of shock transferred through the bars to your arms. There is an attachment point to the frame and this sometimes violent motion is transferred to the frame, allowing you to maintain control of the motorcycle and even helping to reduce rider fatigue. So much like your front forks were designed to handle vertical impacts, a steering stabilizer is designed to reduce lateral movement. Hydraulic fluid passes between controlled chambers to dampen the forces of impact. Units are often called steering dampers as well as stabilizers. Not everyone needs a steering damper, but there are many situations that can be improved by adding one to your motorcycle. Riding rough terrain, whether asphalt or off road, can be helped with a stabilizer. Allowing the damper device to absorb those constant bar movements reduces rider fatigue and increases safety. Long distance touring and riding with worn or knobby tires all add to rider fatigue. You are constantly making small corrections to the steering as you ride. Reducing the amount of input a rider uses can help make you safer and allow you to concentrate on traffic, and other road conditions.

There's plenty of info online, I suggest you go do some homework... And again, Have you ever used one...? 

[strynboen]

vhy start talking Kawasaki.
.its Honda sohc..standart bikes ve have in talk..and they do fine ..so vhy att stering dampers ..they do fine vitaut..


  hard tuned or modified bikes or heavy loadet touring bikes. and krazy powered 2 strokes Kawa"s.can need a ekstra help to stay stabile. ok for mee
..can ve take this as thrue.??

[FunJimmy]

Interesting that none of the self proclaimed experts have introduced the topic of rider input effecting motorcycle stability. I remember reading about it in Keith Code's "Twist of the Wrist" books and the videos are easy to find on YouTube. I'm not suggesting riders go either way on this topic. It has no effect on my life if you choose to put steering dampers on every bike you’ve owned or not but let’s try to bring more conversation and less opinion to the topic.

Rubbish Delta, the exact same argument could be used against everything you've said, I don't even know why you're here....?  Another thing a damper does is take steering pressure away from your arms allowing you to be more relaxed, especially on a long ride, have you ever even used one..?. Study, thats laughable, you do understand the physics of a motorcycle..?  Do you think all the manufacturers fitting them to their bikes are all wrong..?  Seriously mate, there are heaps of points raised as to why they are a great accessory and what they actually do, you just don't want to hear it, no one is "making" anyone believe anything thats not true, telling people it's irresponsible to use a damper as insurance is the stupidest thing you've said yet... Go do your own study and get back to us then...

Riders should remain relaxed at all times while riding a motorcycle. It’s not inconceivable to conclude that manufacturers install technology to assist (and protect) the average rider and to reduce the potential for catastrophic outcomes. Think about that statement next time you read about traction control and ABS brakes. These are costly technologies designed to make riding a motorcycle safer and limit liability. Your pro-dampner arguments have a similar tone.

Your "study" claim is  ridiculous, simply because you can't get your head around why they are a useful accessory  to some, doesn't mean a damn thing, {they have been used for well over 50 years}, go read about them and why they are used, I've used them on every bike I've owned, fitted some myself and bought bikes that had them fitted at the factory, I've even changed out a factory non adjustable one for an adjustable one, I love them and definitely notice the difference, I like to be able to adjust it to suit my riding style, or where I ride, and I like the improved stability and the FACT that they take out a lot of small movements from the bars on a long ride,  means you can relax more, making it more comfortable and safer, as it aids in fatigue management, all valid points and FACT.

There's plenty of info online, I suggest you go do some homework... And again, Have you ever used one...?

Yes there is and one man’s opinion does not make it FACT!


From Sportrider magazine. http://www.sportrider.com/riding-skills-series-tankslappers

1. The "tankslapper" is a very frightening experience. Usually occurring when accelerating hard over bumpy pavement, a tankslapper ensues when the front tire becomes airborne, then regains traction outside the rear tire's alignment. The resulting deflection bounces the tire off to one side, followed by another bounce in the opposite direction as it contacts the pavement again. Unless the bike's steering geometry is able to damp out the deflections quickly, the resulting oscillations from the front tire as it bounces back and forth will swiftly gain in strength, causing the bars to swap from side to side with increasing ferocity. The oscillations can be violent enough to rip the bars out of your hands, and fling your feet off the pegs. You can guess what happens next.

2. The easy cure for this problem is a steering damper. Many sportbikes now come stock with one, as the radical steering geometry needed for quick handling can otherwise cause some instability in certain situations. While a steering damper is an easy fix, it shouldn't be a cure-all; if you're forced to adjust the steering damper's stiffness (if available) until you can barely turn the bars in order to keep the bike's handling stable, there is a problem somewhere in your chassis setup. A too-stiff steering damper can also cause handling problems by itself; if your steering damper is adjustable, and you find that your bike won't hold a line (especially in slower corners), or gets into a small wobble or oscillation in high speed corners, try backing off the stiffness a little and see if it helps.

3. Not all sportbikes need a steering damper, however. Many have steering geometry setups that offer quick handling, while still providing the necessary stability to damp out any front-end oscillations. In most cases, one of the biggest contributors to a tankslapper is your body positioning and grip on the bars. Some people ride in a more upright position when carving corners, but when accelerating over bumpy pavement, that upright body position puts even more weight transfer to the rear, which causes the front end to get lighter. Also, the more upright torso means that your grip on the bars is tighter in order to stabilize your upper body. That firmer grip feeds more input into the front end, something it doesn't need while it's busy trying to damp out the inputs from the bouncing front tire. It actually forms a vicious circle: you grip the bars tighter because they're starting to flap back and forth, but that only feeds more input into the front end, compounding the problem further.

4. The easiest way to avoid tankslappers while accelerating over bumpy pavement is to--believe it or not--keep a relaxed grip on the bars. Relaxing your grip on the bars means you must lean forward in order to assist in keeping your torso stabilized. This helps put more weight on the front end, which keeps the front tire on the pavement. Since you're not using your arms to stabilize your upper body, get your weight onto the footpegs so that you can get your body as far forward as possible; this also allows you to grip the tank with your knees for more stability.
If you do get into a tankslapper, keep your weight forward and--as hard as this sounds--maintain a relaxed grip on the bars. Let the motorcycle's chassis deal with damping out the oscillations. Don't try to be a human steering damper; you'll only make the problem worse. Tankslappers can definitely soil your undies; but if you're able to deal with them correctly, you'll usually ride through them before you know it.

[FunJimmy]

From Misti Hurst

http://www.motomom.ca/whats-a-tankslapper/


A tank slapper is a rapid, high intensity and unwanted motion of the handlebars back and forth.  Literally it is the slapping of the bars from side to side that can get violent enough to actually hit the tank of the motorcycle, hence the name “tankslapper.”  The bad news is that they are scary as hell and can cause some pretty nasty crashes.  The good news is that there are some very effective techniques you can use to handle them.

What causes tank slappers?

The suspension system on a motorcycle is designed to make the ride more comfortable for the rider and primarily to keep the tires in good contact with the road surface which can include bumps, cracks, pot holes and all manner of imperfections.  This system must work while the motorcycle is straight up and down and also during turning when the bike is leaned over, sometimes at very extreme lean angles.

In his book, A Twist of the Wrist II, Keith Code explains, “the process of head shake (which can be the beginnings of a tank slapper) begins when the tire hits a ripple and, along with the suspension, compresses. This throws the wheel slightly off-center.  When the suspension and tire release, the wheel is light and flicks back toward a centered position, but again, slightly off-center.  Still off-center when it loads again from the next ripple; again it is flicked past its centered position.  The cycle of flicking back and forth repeats as the front-end seeks to stabilize through this automatic and necessary self- correcting process. Any bike will do it, and what most riders fail to realize is that this shake is a necessary part of the bike’s suspension system.”

The little wiggle in the front of the bike is how the motorcycle self corrects and gets itself back on track. Ever see a motorcycle race where something, either a tank slapper or a big slide causes the rider to either be ejected from, or fall off the bike?  As soon as the rider is no longer on the bike  it wiggles a bit, straightens out, keeps on going perfectly straight until it runs out of momentum and falls over.  This is a classic example of how a bike, if left to its own devices will sort itself out.

Code mentions that, “based on the amount of wiggling, squirming and overuse of controls most riders exhibit, the bike would, if it could, surely ask them to leave.  Riders create instability on their own mounts.”

Head shake can be caused by hitting a bump or a ripple in the pavement or it can occur when accelerating hard out of a corner.  Hard acceleration can cause the front end to get light or even wheelie which means that the tire is no longer following the road very well, and when it touches back down it can skip or bounce or be off-center, starting off the headshake.  Code explains that, “the good news is that if your bike is basically tight (steering head bearings not excessively worn, forks and shock not sticking etc.) the head-shake stays up front and does not transfer to the rest of the bike.”

Eventually, the oscillation will die out on its own, unless we interfere.


How Riders make the situation worse:

Our normal reactions when the handlebars start to slightly shake are to stiffen up on the bars.   When we stiffen up the head shake is transferred through our bodies to the whole bike and that is when the shaking can get more violent. Code says that “too tight on the bars is the most common source of motorcycle handling problems.”

 
How to Prevent a Tank Slapper:

Knowing that gripping the bars too tight is what transfers head shake through the bike and makes it worse,  we can work to prevent a tank slapper from ever occurring by maintaining a relaxed position on the bike at all times.  Practice sitting on your bike with your knees gripping the tank for more stability.  Sit back a little further in your seat so that your arms have a nice bend in them with your elbows pointed to the ground and then flap em like you’re doing the funky chicken.  That’s relaxed, and from that position you can easily use your legs to lift your weight off the seat a little bit, like a jockey on a horse, so that your butt is not banging down hard on the seat.  Think light as a feather, one with the bike, Zen and the art of motorcycle riding……

Installing a steering damper is another way to help prevent tank slappers.  A steering damper works to limit the travel and intensity of any head shake that the bike is experiencing by damping or soaking up the excess energy. They are necessary on some of the more modern bikes that have aggressive frame geometry, relatively short wheelbases and powerful engines. Dampers are mounted up front so that there is insufficient leverage to transfer shake through the bike.  Keep in mind though that a motorcycle with a damper will still shake if you are tight on the bars, so relax!

 
What to do if you experience a tank slapper:

If you do find yourself in the unfortunate situation of experiencing a tank slapper first hand don’t try to muscle the bike or force it to stop as it will only make it worse.  Try to relax your grip on the bars, pinch the tank with your knees and lift your butt off the seat a little bit.  Also, don’t chop the throttle as that will put more weight onto the front and potentially make the situation worse.  Ideally you want to continue to accelerate if possible to get the weight further to the back of the bike, or at least maintain a steady and smooth throttle.

Popping a wheelie would eliminate a tank slapper immediately because there would no longer be a front wheel bouncing back and forth in an effort to straighten itself out, but I don’t know too many people that could pull off a stunt like that in the middle of a panic situation.

If all else fails, let go.  The bike will try to fix itself.


Another important thing to remember is that occasionally very violent tank slappers can force the front brake pads and brake pistons away from the rotors, causing the brakes to go soft or even to fade completely.  So, once you regain control of the motorcycle, check your front brakes and if they feel soft then pump the lever a few times until the pressure returns.

Finding yourself in a situation where the motorcycle you are on is suddenly out of control is no doubt a scary predicament.  The more knowledge you are able to arm yourself with, the better equipped you are to handle emergency situations, and the more you are able to practice certain techniques (such as being nice and relaxed on the bike at all times) the more likely you will be to actually do it when it is absolutely necessary.  It’s a pretty cool feeling to be able to consciously decide to do something that makes a bad situation better.

[754]

 I get the feeling that for some the steering damper is abit like wearing a ST Christopher medal...ie, it creates a bit of false sense of security..
 Get into a wiggle or sketchy situation, tighten up the damper.. There that oughta fix it..
 Whereas without it,, whoa something wrong here...... better check things over

[bwaller]

Jim, it's curious how different people suggest opposite reactions. One suggests weight over the front, then Code suggests accelerate to shift weight to the rear.  Both are probably correct.  I've always found either hard on the brakes OR hard on the throttle can cure head shake. However a full blown tank slapper that chirps the front tire left & right and takes the bars out of your hands doesn't allow for much rider input. I suppose of course on a straight stretch of road a gain of control is possible from the worst case scenario, but is only likely because the rider did let go of the bars! Just like the race bike that straightens up after the rider was spit off.

[FunJimmy]

Jim, it's curious how different people suggest opposite reactions. One suggests weight over the front, then Code suggests accelerate to shift weight to the rear.  Both are probably correct.  I've always found either hard on the brakes OR hard on the throttle can cure head shake. However a full blown tank slapper that chirps the front tire left & right and takes the bars out of your hands doesn't allow for much rider input. I suppose of course on a straight stretch of road a gain of control is possible from the worst case scenario, but is only likely because the rider did let go of the bars! Just like the race bike that straightens up after the rider was spit off.

I've thankfully never had head shake that violent. If I did I think everything would go slow-mo as my life flashes before my eyes. I've been ok managing speed wobbles by lightening up on the bars and letting them flutter in my palms till it settles down but I like the idea of wheeling to get control. Don't think that option exsisting with the 550 tho.

[Deltarider]

There's a lot of opinions in this thread, not so many facts. There are quotes but not every time we've been given the source. From what I've seen in the automotive industry, if every, just every bike would benefit in safety from a steeringdamper, it would have been law a long time. The truth is: some bikes may need them, others don't. Someone pointed out a steeringdamper was also offering a more relaxing ride. If there's anything that I don't want to come in between me and my steering, it is this. If you allow me. Below you see pics of two cars that I have owned. Of the legendary Peugeot 504 I had more than one and I've crossed the Sahara desert twice in other 504s. Nor the 504, nor the MB, in spite of their weight, had powersteering. Except for buses and trucks in those days powersteering was an American thing. Both the Mercedes and the Peugeot however were very pleasant to drive. The steering was accurate and didn't require much effort. More importantly, these cars were always going exactly where I wanted them to go and, even more important, when I was distracted like looking sideways whilst chatting with whoever, I always felt when I had to do minor corrections. It had some sort of built-in alarm you could say. In the seventies I made my first crosscountry trip in the US. Occasionally I drove American cars and it was my first experience with powersteering. Although I was warned the average american car would behave like a floating mattress, I couldn't believe this was allowed: not only was the car not going precisely where I wanted it - it was going there more or less - it also needed far more reactions of me. Steering was insensitive and more than once (true, when I wasn't concentrated as needed) I found myself already halfway out of my lane. No doubt powersteering has evolved and is much better now than it was then, but still I don't like it. Unfortunately nowadays you can't buy even the smallest Fiat or it will have powersteering.  When then two other things arrived in cars, in every car (!), knowing electric window openers and AC, I decided not to own cars anymore. I rent them when needed, but I don't want them. Where in the old days the crank to open the windows was always in the same spot, now in every car I drive, I have to look for the switch (Is it in the door? Oh, is that the mirror? Is it on the console? Which way does it go and how long should I press? Ooops, it is already fully open). Again, operating is not intuitive anymore but has become insensitive. Then, what's the point of electric window openers when I don't even have them at home? AC can be a blessing in hot climates, in our moderate climate it isn't needed. When you use it, it's a 12-15% increase in fuel consumption and if you don't use them regularly like in winter, there's a chance of fungi build up that can be hazardous to your health (I'm allergic to fungi). Again, if there would be an option to buy a car without it and save weight, but there isn't. Even the smallest cars have them.
If I was convinced a steeringdamper would ad safety for me and my particularbike I'd try one. In spite of the looks that reminds me of the thing I had in my body to repair a bone fracture. Now that I'm warned that steering can become smoothed out... thank you. I've experience with that. It is not for me.

[Wobbly]

I get the feeling that for some the steering damper is abit like wearing a ST Christopher medal...ie, it creates a bit of false sense of security..
 Get into a wiggle or sketchy situation, tighten up the damper.. There that oughta fix it..
 Whereas without it,, whoa something wrong here...... better check things over

Amen.

[Retro Rocket]

I get the feeling that for some the steering damper is abit like wearing a ST Christopher medal...ie, it creates a bit of false sense of security..
 Get into a wiggle or sketchy situation, tighten up the damper.. There that oughta fix it..
 Whereas without it,, whoa something wrong here...... better check things over

I get the feeling you just like generalizing  Frank, but nice story anyway. I tighten up a damper when riding quick on poor roads, we have plenty of extremely long, poor condition roads in Australia, anyone who rides here knows that, I'd even go as far as to say that, we have some of the worst roads in the world for a developed country. In the States where you have grooved roads and highways, a damper would be a great addition, taking some of the movement out of the bars. I've NEVER experienced a "wiggle" then turned up a damper   .  Your description of "getting into a "wiggle" or "sketchy situation", is just vague at best, probably a guess.?  I've been in plenty of "sketchy" situations and never had a tank slapper..? ALL bikes, regardless of condition, can  have a tank slapper, its physics and has already been explained....

Interesting that none of the self proclaimed experts

Nice try Jim, no one proclaimed any such thing   

Yes there is and one man’s opinion does not make it FACT!
[/quote]

Hahaha, sure Jim....   Coming from someone who's never experienced one at all and all you do is quote someone elses opinion...sure mate. All the stuff you posted is great if you are experienced and or  have experienced one, I have on a couple of occasions, thats definitely helped me understand what to "attempt" to do, although it will probably make fcuk all difference. And as Brent said, there's more than one school of thought on how to handle these situations,  they happen extremely fast and your last thought is to take weight of something you are trying to control. I've also been told to only use the rear brake only when experiencing a tank slapper, but, as I've said, they happen extremely fast and don't allow any time to think, you are thinking whilst trying not to crash or hit anything with your adrenaline maxed out, not easy to do, release your grip and have the bars ripped out of your hands, I've seen better riders than myself go down badly due to a tank slapper on a perfectly good bike... I've been lucky and been able to ride them out, One I stayed on the road through sheer luck and the second, I ended riding over a small embankment across a dirt track and into a park, and still stayed upright, through sheer luck i might add, and some dirt bike skills. I've never alluded to not making sure any bike is set up correctly first before deciding to add a damper, I take that for granted.. Jim, your speed wobbles are probably a completely different thing, like the old 900 Kawasaki's or H2 Kawasaki's or even my stock standard 900 boldor, they wobbled straight out of the crate, usually due to frame flex, sub standard shocks, poor tires and other frame related problems, a tank slapper is basically a resonant frequency in the front of the bike. The people that think a damper is a "feel good device" couldn't be more wrong.... NEVER use a damper to disguise a problem, make sure everything is set up properly first, then decide if you think your bike can benefit from one..  I like what a damper does, I like they way it makes a bike feel more sure footed and even more slightly relaxed. If you ride like a Grandma then you probably will never have the need for one, but who knows.... ...

[FunJimmy]

Hahaha, sure Jim....   Coming from someone who's never experienced one at all and all you do is quote someone elses opinion...sure mate. All the stuff you posted is great if you are experienced and or have experienced one, I have on a couple of occasions, thats definitely helped me understand what to "attempt" to do, although it will probably make fcuk all difference. And as Brent said, there's more than one school of thought on how to handle these situations, they happen extremely fast and your last thought is to take weight of something you are trying to control. I've also been told to only use the rear brake only when experiencing a tank slapper, but, as I've said, they happen extremely fast and don't allow any time to think, you are thinking whilst trying not to crash or hit anything with your adrenaline maxed out, not easy to do, release your grip and have the bars ripped out of your hands, I've seen better riders than myself go down badly due to a tank slapper on a perfectly good bike... I've been lucky and been able to ride them out. One I stayed on the road through sheer luck and the second, I ended riding over a small embankment across a dirt track and into a park, and still stayed upright, through sheer luck i might add, and some dirt bike skills. I've never alluded to not making sure any bike is set up correctly first before deciding to add a damper, I take that for granted.. Jim, your speed wobbles are probably a completely different thing, like the old 900 Kawasaki's or H2 Kawasaki's or even my stock standard 900 boldor, they wobbled straight out of the crate, usually due to frame flex, sub standard shocks, poor tires and other frame related problems, a tank slapper is basically a resonant frequency in the front of the bike. The people that think a damper is a "feel good device" couldn't be more wrong.... NEVER use a damper to disguise a problem, make sure everything is set up properly first, then decide if you think your bike can benefit from one..  I like what a damper does, I like they way it makes a bike feel more sure footed and even more slightly relaxed. If you ride like a Grandma then you probably will never have the need for one, but who knows.... ...

I’m not against or pro-dampener. I've owned several bikes over my life time and the only one that came with and still has a dampener is the Ducati Superbike. None of the others have ever required a steering dampener and I keep the Ducati Superbike Ohlins dampener set at minimum resistance. I prefer to feel the road and how the bike is reacting. Canadian and US roads vary greatly. Some are baby bum smooth while others (paved forest service roads) can be hair raising and littered with frost heaves and broken asphalt. Suffice it to say that there has been ample opportunity to get into a violent tank slapper.

Did you even read Keith Code’s “Twist of the Wrist” series or the Misti Hurst’s feature on tank slappers? I suspect not. Probably scared of being schooled by a girl. Some people have their minds made up and can't be convinced. That's ok too.

Take a look at the high lighted text in your quote above RR. I don't think it would make a bit of difference even if Matt Mladen sat down and told you everything about tank slappers. You’d still be preaching the same ole rhetoric. To survive riders need to react to situations instinctively. Even if it seems counter intuitive. Like relaxing your grip when the bars are shaking violently. Counter intuitive? Ya, maybe but it could make a world of difference. We’ve all seen video of riders getting ejected and the riderless bike straightens up and glides perfectly down the track until it looses speed and falls. No rider input messing things up.

How about managing rear wheel slip and the risk of regaining traction and high siding? Most will instinctively chop the throttle ensuring a high side. Few will keep the gas cracked and ride it out. There’s no time to think about it Mick. You just have to do it. Even if it doesn't feel like the right thing to do.

Nice to have you back.

[JWExperience]

Have fun beating your head against a wall...


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[Retro Rocket]

Have fun beating your head against a wall...


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Ahhh, is that what happened       

[Retro Rocket]

Hahaha, sure Jim....   Coming from someone who's never experienced one at all and all you do is quote someone elses opinion...sure mate. All the stuff you posted is great if you are experienced and or have experienced one, I have on a couple of occasions, thats definitely helped me understand what to "attempt" to do, although it will probably make fcuk all difference. And as Brent said, there's more than one school of thought on how to handle these situations, they happen extremely fast and your last thought is to take weight of something you are trying to control. I've also been told to only use the rear brake only when experiencing a tank slapper, but, as I've said, they happen extremely fast and don't allow any time to think, you are thinking whilst trying not to crash or hit anything with your adrenaline maxed out, not easy to do, release your grip and have the bars ripped out of your hands, I've seen better riders than myself go down badly due to a tank slapper on a perfectly good bike... I've been lucky and been able to ride them out. One I stayed on the road through sheer luck and the second, I ended riding over a small embankment across a dirt track and into a park, and still stayed upright, through sheer luck i might add, and some dirt bike skills. I've never alluded to not making sure any bike is set up correctly first before deciding to add a damper, I take that for granted.. Jim, your speed wobbles are probably a completely different thing, like the old 900 Kawasaki's or H2 Kawasaki's or even my stock standard 900 boldor, they wobbled straight out of the crate, usually due to frame flex, sub standard shocks, poor tires and other frame related problems, a tank slapper is basically a resonant frequency in the front of the bike. The people that think a damper is a "feel good device" couldn't be more wrong.... NEVER use a damper to disguise a problem, make sure everything is set up properly first, then decide if you think your bike can benefit from one..  I like what a damper does, I like they way it makes a bike feel more sure footed and even more slightly relaxed. If you ride like a Grandma then you probably will never have the need for one, but who knows.... ...

I’m not against or pro-dampener. I've owned several bikes over my life time and the only one that came with and still has a dampener is the Ducati Superbike. None of the others have ever required a steering dampener and I keep the Ducati Superbike Ohlins dampener set at minimum resistance. I prefer to feel the road and how the bike is reacting. Canadian and US roads vary greatly. Some are baby bum smooth while others (paved forest service roads) can be hair raising and littered with frost heaves and broken asphalt. Suffice it to say that there has been ample opportunity to get into a violent tank slapper.

Did you even read Keith Code’s “Twist of the Wrist” series or the Misti Hurst’s feature on tank slappers? I suspect not. Probably scared of being schooled by a girl. Some people have their minds made up and can't be convinced. That's ok too.

Take a look at the high lighted text in your quote above RR. I don't think it would make a bit of difference even if Matt Mladen sat down and told you everything about tank slappers. You’d still be preaching the same ole rhetoric. To survive riders need to react to situations instinctively. Even if it seems counter intuitive. Like relaxing your grip when the bars are shaking violently. Counter intuitive? Ya, maybe but it could make a world of difference. We’ve all seen video of riders getting ejected and the riderless bike straightens up and glides perfectly down the track until it looses speed and falls. No rider input messing things up.

How about managing rear wheel slip and the risk of regaining traction and high siding? Most will instinctively chop the throttle ensuring a high side. Few will keep the gas cracked and ride it out. There’s no time to think about it Mick. You just have to do it. Even if it doesn't feel like the right thing to do.

Nice to have you back.

FJ, seriously mate, you are full of 1t, you've made a pile of assumptions based on what you believe are the facts, about what I do and don't know about motorcycles, you are telling me sh1t I've known for well over 30 years, I knew this stuff before Mladin was born, and I don't care if you believe it or not....... "To survive riders need to react to situations instinctively", Brilliant, Instinctively or by what you've been taught and experienced...? A bit of both I'd imagine, if at all possible, all this tells me is that you've never experienced a tank slapper, it shows, lets see how instinctive you are when you have one, {instinctive reaction is gained through experience} you have no time to think, if its getting more violent you let go of the bars or grip or loosen your grip, the bars will tear out of your hands anyway, how many videos of experienced racers would you like me to post coming to grief , and with broken wrists afterwards, you have NO IDEA of the forces at work with a tank slapper, you can't hold it anyway, you are a passenger just along for the ride...seriously.... I don't give a sh1t about that articles you posted {I was reading Keith Code articles in the 1980's, I still have articles of his in old Aussie bike mags}, like I already said, there are different schools of thought on how to survive a tank slapper, you only read what you want, and I refuse to argue with anyone that doesn't know what one feels like or how FAST they happen, experiencing one would quickly change your mind, they are without doubt, the scariest thing I've ever experienced on a bike apart from being hit by a car and hitting a massive pot hole at 2 in the morning in the pissing rain on the highway. You speak as if an authority with words like "  maybe, but it could make a world of difference". Pure speculation, nothing else, you don't know, how could you..?   then this little gem, "probably scared of being schooled by a girl", I expect you to post stupid sh1t like that FJ, stupid baseless assumptions... I know girls that would put you and me to shame on a bike, what was your point again..?  Then this beauty, without for one second thinking of just how experienced these guys are..." We’ve all seen video of riders getting ejected and the riderless bike straightens up and glides perfectly down the track until it looses speed and falls. No rider input messing things up.", your a genius mate, off you go to the Isle of man, there's a fortune to be made telling expert riders what they are doing wrong,  , Want to see a video of a bike literally falling apart from a slapper..?, they don't all ride off into the sunset mate and here we are talking the road, along with all its obstacles... And now this, , "How about managing rear wheel slip and the risk of regaining traction and high siding? Most will instinctively chop the throttle ensuring a high side. Few will keep the gas cracked and ride it out. There’s no time to think about it Mick. You just have to do it",  Really  !!, thanks mate, I'd have never guessed. Apart from being a completely different scenario , now you just want to argue about anything, you obviously think your a 2 wheeled genius. Its happened to me a few times, one absolute beauty with my wife on the back, on my 900 Boldor, at about 100MPH on the highway on a change of surface, half way round a sweeping bend, It was awesome, I could have still been spat off, I definitely didn't panic, I rode it out, on throttle, I don't panic mate, Its not in my DNA, call it luck, call it what ever you want.  I also learned years ago to feed the power on {on bikes with enough power to break traction under power}, with the rear brake too, after reading an article written by Mick Doohan in the 1980's, almost the same as riding the rear brake when doing a wheel stand. I grew up around road racers , I ate breathed and sh1t motorcycles when I was younger. I had mates way back in the late 70's and 80's that were incredible riders, I have a friend thats been a multiple Australian champion { a couple of the Aussie members here know of him, I owned one of his race bikes}, the single best rider I've ever known and ridden with, a pure freak on a bike, he was offered a ride with a major world superbike team. I used to ride with these guys, I still know guys at the pinnacle of Australian motorcycle racing, Brent knows one of them, he's a bike builder of world renoun....You've made one big assumption that you must be a better rider and I'm naive and couldn't have possibly read about the subject, you couldn't be more wrong, I'm the most inquisitive person I know...   Nothing you've said is about the damper {thats all i'm interested in }, and what they are used for, or why they are used, all this crap is just semantics, argumentative rubbish, there is no perfect answer, argue away... And by the way, a damper doesn't stop you "feeling the road", you "feel the road" through the bars, Nothing is added between the wheel and the bars that effects road holding, all the normal forces are still transmitted to the rider, it reduces the amount of effort needed on the bars to keep the bike tracking by absorbing some of the buffering from the road,  by adding an amount of resistance to sideways movement, how much resistance is up to the user... I've already answered a few questions in PM's, if anyone else wants to know my opinion on dampers or their intended use, send me a PM, I'll gladly answer your questions, this thread is a joke...

[JWExperience]

You asked for it, that was like some sighboy #$%* with insults too


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[evanphi]

These back and forths are fun to watch...  BUT DAMN use some PARAGRAPHS.

[754]

 Everybody... C..A...L...M.. down... breathe..... ... just breathe...

[Stev-o]

[FunJimmy]

I don't panic mate, It’s not in my DNA

I’m not saying you do RR but the way you’re going on and on has me questioning if you’re being straight with us. You’ve convinced yourself that tank slappers are inevitable regardless of the bike. You’ve installed and (sounds like) continue to install dampers on every bike. You post statements like “trying not to crash or hit anything with your adrenaline maxed out, not easy to do,” and “they happen extremely fast and your last thought is to take weight of something you are trying to control”. I don’t know how you ride and why you’re so prone to tank slappers when it doesn’t seem to be a global issue with the rest of the motorcycling community. With all your chest beating I suspect it’s got to do with your ability to ride at 95%+ all the time.

And by the way, a damper doesn't stop you "feeling the road", you "feel the road" through the bars, Nothing is added between the wheel and the bars that effects road holding, all the normal forces are still transmitted to the rider, it reduces the amount of effort needed on the bars to keep the bike tracking by absorbing some of the buffering from the road,  by adding an amount of resistance to sideways movement, how much resistance is up to the user... I've already answered a few questions in PM's, if anyone else wants to know my opinion on dampers or their intended use, send me a PM, I'll gladly answer your questions, this thread is a joke...

That makes no sense at all. Road holding wasn’t what I referred to. Feel is different and dampening the steering impacts feel. I don’t have an issue with slappers and they don’t make me paranoid. Perhaps I’d feel differently about them if I had as many or was as prone to them as you are. I hope that never happens.

this thread is a joke...

Comment withheld for sake of the moderators. 

[PeWe]

I have to comment again. I use a steering damper on my CB750 K6-76 because it need it. It feels much more stable. I tested the loosest setting a couple of days ago but had to tighten it to step 3-4 when I started to feel low frequenze wobble at around 160-170kmh as std speed for instability on my bike. I remember the sudden horrible wobble from the back of the days so I make sure to stop it when I feel the beginning of it by a surging front instability before it suddenly getting worse.

If cruising around in speeds as the round signs beside the road say, no wobble and no need of damper.

I noticed last year that the bike got more instability with 4-4 + centerstand than before with 4-1 and no centerstand. Maybe center of gravity or the 4-4 pipes that press rear wheel down and front up due to spoiler effect..?
That started to happen around 160kmh (100mph).

EDIT: It has always been more stable with passenger.
(My total weight today is like myself back in the days x 1.5 doing no 2 at the toilet does not help.)

[Powderman]

Here's the one I installed on my bike. Why is it there? For a number of reason, not necessarily any more important than another. One important reason it's there is because I plan on running it at some LSR venues and regulations require them on all bike, why?, because they are effective. Another important reason it's there is because I have personally experienced a "life before your eyes" tank slapper after closing the throttle at 130mph. It was a combination of me shifting my weight on the seat and the change of force on the bike from pulling to decelerating. I'm lucky it didn't throw me off, one of the scariest moments I ever experienced on a bike. So anything that can help prevent that situation is a no brainer to have. There's really no negative to having one on your bike, only positives.



Actually in this shot it shows a clamp for the frame tube. I ended up drilling a hole in the frame down tube and welding in a threaded bung so the damper clamp itself screws into the frame tube.

[FunJimmy]

Another important reason it's there is because I have personally experienced a "life before your eyes" tank slapper after closing the throttle at 130mph. It was a combination of me shifting my weight on the seat and the change of force on the bike from pulling to decelerating. I'm lucky it didn't throw me off, one of the scariest moments I ever experienced on a bike. So anything that can help prevent that situation is a no brainer to have. There's really no negative to having one on your bike, only positives.

That's amazing! Can you imagine what you could achieve with a chain?

[Powderman]

Another important reason it's there is because I have personally experienced a "life before your eyes" tank slapper after closing the throttle at 130mph. It was a combination of me shifting my weight on the seat and the change of force on the bike from pulling to decelerating. I'm lucky it didn't throw me off, one of the scariest moments I ever experienced on a bike. So anything that can help prevent that situation is a no brainer to have. There's really no negative to having one on your bike, only positives.

That's amazing! Can you imagine what you could achieve with a chain?

There's no fuel in the tank, so a chain is unnecessary. What's your point?   

You said:
"
That makes no sense at all. Road holding wasn’t what I referred to. Feel is different and dampening the steering impacts feel. I don’t have an issue with slappers and they don’t make me paranoid. Perhaps I’d feel differently about them if I had as many or was as prone to them as you are. I hope that never happens. "
During normal riding you turn the forks less than 3°. You will not feel anything from the damper during normal riding because it isn't moving far or fast enough to do anything really.
It doesn't take "many" to make you feel differently, it only takes once.



This thread turned into a pissing match like I've not seen at sohc4 in 5 years.