Topic: Which headlight relays and where?

[mgzych]

Hi, all.

For those of you making use of relays to power your headlight, thereby minimizing voltage drop and preserving your switchgear, some questions for you:

1.   What make, spec, physical shape, etc. relays are you running?
2.   Home-made harness or kit?  If kit, which one, from what provider?  If home-made, what size wiring did you use?
3.   Did you keep the existing headlight socket intact, or cut it off and wire the relay switching circuit directly?
4.   Where did you mount the relays?  Did you/could you fit them in the (stock?) bucket of your ride?  Or did you find another home for them?

Pictures would be a blessing!

Thanks for your help,
Mark

[flybox1]

I have a relay powering my H4 HID.
Bought this pre-made relay. Mounted it inside the CB750s upper frame tube triangle (under the tank), and ran the wires to the headlight.  Its a relay set up for two headlights.  I just terminated one side.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/30-Amp-Xenon-HID-Conversion-Kit-Relay-Wiring-Harness-for-H1-H3-H4-Single-Beam-/371249514277?hash=item5670320725



Use the diagram and add in your own H4 connectors in place of the "ballast' connectors

[caretta]

I used Eastern Beaver's H4 kit. The kit is very well made, the relays are small and high quality, works as advertised and you will be hard pressed to build a kit from parts for much less money. Eastern Beaver is in Japan so shipping did take about 10 days. Read Eastern Beavers web site info to answer most if not all of your questions.

http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/H4_Kits/h4_kits.html

I mounted my relays under the tank to save room in the headlight shell. Plenty of wire to remote mount the relays.

[70CB750]

I had some old VW relays in my box of electric goodies, used those, made my own harness:

[madmtnmotors]

I'm running two of these in the stock headlight bucket with the stock harness:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/dorman-conduct-tite-30-amp-12-volt-4-pin-universal-relay-84601/5760055-P?searchTerm=30+amp+relay#

I also made up jumper wires to adapt the stock harness connectors to the spade terminals on the relay too. One relay is dedicated strictly to power the coils and the other relay powers everything else.

[mgzych]

Love the feedback (and links and photos)!  Keep 'em coming. Thanks!

[mgzych]

I have a relay powering my H4 HID.
Bought this pre-made relay. Mounted it inside the CB750s upper frame tube triangle (under the tank), and ran the wires to the headlight.  Its a relay set up for two headlights.  I just terminated one side.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/30-Amp-Xenon-HID-Conversion-Kit-Relay-Wiring-Harness-for-H1-H3-H4-Single-Beam-/371249514277?hash=item5670320725



Use the diagram and add in your own H4 connectors in place of the "ballast' connectors

Flybox, did it get you hi & low beam?  Or not applicable with HID? 

[mgzych]

I used Eastern Beaver's H4 kit. The kit is very well made, the relays are small and high quality, works as advertised and you will be hard pressed to build a kit from parts for much less money. Eastern Beaver is in Japan so shipping did take about 10 days. Read Eastern Beavers web site info to answer most if not all of your questions.

http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/H4_Kits/h4_kits.html

I mounted my relays under the tank to save room in the headlight shell. Plenty of wire to remote mount the relays.

Thanks, Caretta.  This is one that I was looking at. How did you connect in the bucket?  With H4 connectors?  Posilocks?  Bullet connector?  What was your thought process?  Would you do the same if you were to do it again? 

[mgzych]

I had some old VW relays in my box of electric goodies, used those, made my own harness:

70CB750, relays mounted remote from the bucket I presume?  Under the tank? 

[mgzych]

I'm running two of these in the stock headlight bucket with the stock harness:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/dorman-conduct-tite-30-amp-12-volt-4-pin-universal-relay-84601/5760055-P?searchTerm=30+amp+relay#

I also made up jumper wires to adapt the stock harness connectors to the spade terminals on the relay too. One relay is dedicated strictly to power the coils and the other relay powers everything else.

Madmtnmotors, 2 of those cube-like jobs in the bucket along with an H4 plug in the back of the reflector?  That's what I'd like to do but I'm struggling to convince myself they'd fit.  Is your bucket like this one?

How did you make the other connections in the bucket?  Bullet connectors or something else? 

[mgzych]

I'm running two of these in the stock headlight bucket with the stock harness:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/dorman-conduct-tite-30-amp-12-volt-4-pin-universal-relay-84601/5760055-P?searchTerm=30+amp+relay#

I also made up jumper wires to adapt the stock harness connectors to the spade terminals on the relay too. One relay is dedicated strictly to power the coils and the other relay powers everything else.

How did you make the other connections in the bucket?  Bullet connectors or something else?

Maybe you tried to explain this I. Your last paragraph, but I'm not sure I'm visualizing it correctly. 

[flybox1]

Flybox, did it get you hi & low beam?  Or not applicable with HID?

High beam,N/A...just low beam, and I wanted it that way.
Allows me to turn on/off when needed, instead of auto-on w key.

[caretta]

I bought Eastern Beavers H4S-F which has the longer leads so I could get the relays mounted remotely. This is on a 400F which has the smaller 6 3/8" headlight so space was a big consideration. I did have enough room in the shell to plug Eastern Beavers H4 connector directly into the stock, but still good, Honda headlight connector. It is a tight fit but it did fit.

One reason I went with the Eastern beaver kit is that he only uses known high quality parts, wire and connectors, no cheap Chinese junk. The Panasonic relays are a known high quality part used by many better makers of electronics. The wire is all cross link and the connectors are industry standard type connectors. Eastern beaver has also thought the whole marginal stock Honda wiring thing out and has came up with simple solutions.

I researched some other kits and they are available but I liked Eastern Beavers thought process on his website and the actual parts he lists and uses. I have made numerous high power headlights for various vehicles using Bosch relays and parts but when I priced the same components to make the Honda setup myself I found I would not have saved much money over the price of Eastern Beavers. Sure you can do it cheaper with cheap parts of unknown origin or quality but I don't use crap parts in my life for anything.

I will use Eastern beavers knowledge and kits/parts again if I do more motorcycle headlight cures. Simple, high quality parts and good knowledge. Only drawback I can see is the slightly higher shipping from Japan and the longer shipping time.

By the way, the anemic alternator on the 400f does keep up with battery charging with the 60/55w H4 shining brightly but I also am using LED's for the tail/brake light and the four instrument lights. 146 watts of charging power is really pathetic but it is what Honda gave me. I don't know what bike you are running but it pays to look into electrical usage and generation.

[madmtnmotors]

I'm running two of these in the stock headlight bucket with the stock harness:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/dorman-conduct-tite-30-amp-12-volt-4-pin-universal-relay-84601/5760055-P?searchTerm=30+amp+relay#

I also made up jumper wires to adapt the stock harness connectors to the spade terminals on the relay too. One relay is dedicated strictly to power the coils and the other relay powers everything else.

Madmtnmotors, 2 of those cube-like jobs in the bucket along with an H4 plug in the back of the reflector?  That's what I'd like to do but I'm struggling to convince myself they'd fit.  Is your bucket like this one?

How did you make the other connections in the bucket?  Bullet connectors or something else? 

My stock K8 headlight bucket is a bit larger than the one you have pictured. I am using a stock headlight as well. The connectors that I used were chosen to match the corresponding stock connector, whether it be bullet or spade. The only non-stock connection was from the main power wire feeding the stock ignition switch, which amounted to stripping a little insulation and soldering a splice, then wrapping it tight.

[Mantree]

I have a relay powering my H4 HID.
Bought this pre-made relay. Mounted it inside the CB750s upper frame tube triangle (under the tank), and ran the wires to the headlight.  Its a relay set up for two headlights.  I just terminated one side.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/30-Amp-Xenon-HID-Conversion-Kit-Relay-Wiring-Harness-for-H1-H3-H4-Single-Beam-/371249514277?hash=item5670320725



Use the diagram and add in your own H4 connectors in place of the "ballast' connectors

Flybox, did it get you hi & low beam?  Or not applicable with HID?

Sorry for the bad photo it's drawn on a paper towel at work. It would be easy to do high low if you don't want a power off switch. Just wire hot side for that relay coil to the high beam switch on the handlebar then run the high beam off of the switched pin and low beam off of the normally closed circuit

Sent from my ME302KL using Tapatalk

[Deltarider]

Before this develops in another hype, maybe it is good to know that later CB500/550 models in Europe came standard with 55/60 Watts halogen and did not have a relay. For instance mine did and I never had an issue. The only relay I mounted was for the Voxbell horns that draw 10A. What I would do if I owned an American model however is disconnect the running lights and auto light on when key is switched arrangement rightaway. Who ever invented that... 

[PeWe]

Search for Auto relay 12V  type TYCO or Bosch
Good to plug the relay into a socket where the wires are connected. Easy to replace relay if needed. Wires will not cause short or get loose either

Like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Premium-Quality-Automotive-Relay-12V-40Amp-4Pin-N-O-Bracket-TYCO-TE-/140938481509?hash=item20d0968f65

[70CB750]

I had some old VW relays in my box of electric goodies, used those, made my own harness:

70CB750, relays mounted remote from the bucket I presume?  Under the tank?

Actually I was able to get it in the bucket, pushed it towards the bottom.  They are smaller than those black relays you see in stores.  As I mentioned, they came from a VW fuse panel, modern cars have realys for many things just plugged in next to fuses.

[madmtnmotors]

Of course, if you want to get fancy, these relays are about half the width of the "basic" relay I linked to in my earlier post:

http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=197117437&uq=635987201180030417


and you can get sockets and connectors to make it super neat:

http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=197117429&uq=635987197722889127
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=197117372&uq=635987201671848238


This discussion has led me to order these very items. The next time I'm in there I'll slip the connectors into the sockets and swap out the relays to reduce the overall mass of relay components. Maybe I'll even sketch up a wiring diagram while I'm at it....

[mgzych]

I bought Eastern Beavers H4S-F which has the longer leads so I could get the relays mounted remotely. This is on a 400F which has the smaller 6 3/8" headlight so space was a big consideration. I did have enough room in the shell to plug Eastern Beavers H4 connector directly into the stock, but still good, Honda headlight connector. It is a tight fit but it did fit.

One reason I went with the Eastern beaver kit is that he only uses known high quality parts, wire and connectors, no cheap Chinese junk. The Panasonic relays are a known high quality part used by many better makers of electronics. The wire is all cross link and the connectors are industry standard type connectors. Eastern beaver has also thought the whole marginal stock Honda wiring thing out and has came up with simple solutions.

I researched some other kits and they are available but I liked Eastern Beavers thought process on his website and the actual parts he lists and uses. I have made numerous high power headlights for various vehicles using Bosch relays and parts but when I priced the same components to make the Honda setup myself I found I would not have saved much money over the price of Eastern Beavers. Sure you can do it cheaper with cheap parts of unknown origin or quality but I don't use crap parts in my life for anything.

I will use Eastern beavers knowledge and kits/parts again if I do more motorcycle headlight cures. Simple, high quality parts and good knowledge. Only drawback I can see is the slightly higher shipping from Japan and the longer shipping time.

By the way, the anemic alternator on the 400f does keep up with battery charging with the 60/55w H4 shining brightly but I also am using LED's for the tail/brake light and the four instrument lights. 146 watts of charging power is really pathetic but it is what Honda gave me. I don't know what bike you are running but it pays to look into electrical usage and generation.

Caretta,

I wondered about the Japan shipping by Eastern Beaver.  During my search I came across this outfit:  http://www.cycleterminal.com/headlight-kits.html  His product looks nearly identical to EB's, no?  Uses same relays, I think.  Did you see/consider this one?  He's only a couple hours from me.

Glad to hear of your success with the 60/55w on the 400f.  I'm on a '75 CB550F.  Not sure where to go to identify charging power.

-Mark

[mgzych]

Before this develops in another hype, maybe it is good to know that later CB500/550 models in Europe came standard with 55/60 Watts halogen and did not have a relay. For instance mine did and I never had an issue. The only relay I mounted was for the Voxbell horns that draw 10A. What I would do if I owned an American model however is disconnect the running lights and auto light on when key is switched arrangement rightaway. Who ever invented that...

Deltarider, are you implying then that a relay set-up is not what I need for the headlight on my '75 CB550F?  Rather, I should be considering some other rewiring?  Can you offer a little more explanation on disconnecting the running lights and "auto light on when key is switched"?

Thanks,
Mark

[mgzych]

Of course, if you want to get fancy, these relays are about half the width of the "basic" relay I linked to in my earlier post:

http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=197117437&uq=635987201180030417


and you can get sockets and connectors to make it super neat:

http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=197117429&uq=635987197722889127
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=197117372&uq=635987201671848238


This discussion has led me to order these very items. The next time I'm in there I'll slip the connectors into the sockets and swap out the relays to reduce the overall mass of relay components. Maybe I'll even sketch up a wiring diagram while I'm at it....

Deltarider,

Sounds interesting, but when I click any of those links, I end up on a page showing me 4,879,353 results!   Can you help me narrow the choices?

Thanks,
Mark

[madmtnmotors]

My bad, try these links:


http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/4-1904124-3/A122157-ND/5342812


and you can get sockets and connectors to make it super neat:

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-potter-brumfield-relays/VCFM-1002/PB1871-ND/2397968
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/60249-1/A27929CT-ND/456893

This time for sure! 

[Deltarider]

Quote from: Deltarider on May 12, 2016, 11:20:05 PM

Before this develops in another hype, maybe it is good to know that later CB500/550 models in Europe came standard with 55/60 Watts halogen and did not have a relay. For instance mine did and I never had an issue. The only relay I mounted was for the Voxbell horns that draw 10A. What I would do if I owned an American model however is disconnect the running lights and auto light on when key is switched arrangement rightaway. Who ever invented that...




Deltarider, are you implying then that a relay set-up is not what I need for the headlight on my '75 CB550F?  Rather, I should be considering some other rewiring?  Can you offer a little more explanation on disconnecting the running lights and "auto light on when key is switched"?

I don't know about your particular model, but wiring and switches of my '76 CB500 are quite sufficent for the use of a 55/60 Watts H4. The bike came with that H4 and so did the CB550F2 and the CB500K3/550K3 in Europe. All these models have the same wires and charging system as yours btw, so I don't know what all this relay fuss is about but it certainly spreads like an epidemic. If I ride with over 3500 RPM I have plenty enough light. Another thing is the charging system that so many complain about. Even with my H4 and 3 Ohms coils I never ever had a charging problem and I always return from a ride with a better charged battery then I started with. Now, been on this forum for quite some years, it struck me that the talk about batteries that run depleted and charging systems that can't cope is always in the US, so I wondered what could be the cause. The use of the bike could be one reason. Americans tend to use motors (cars as well as bikes) for shorter distances than we do (we have a different infrastructure and often we prefer a walk or a pedal bikeride). Also Americans, maybe used to oversized engines in cars, tend to ride with lower rpm than we do which affects charging. Then I asked myself is it only this? I therefore studied differences in the various wiring schemes that could explain why US models possibly run a higher risk to have the battery depleted. The front blinkers that double as running lights consume an extra 16 Watts and Í'm glad we don't have them. Not only there are no studies that suggest they bring extra safety, they also make your bike look cheap and childish like a Chinese toy but that's my opinion. So you can simply save 16 Watts by replacing the bulbs by the ones with one filament like found on older models. Also the blinker itself on USmodels consume a bit more: 23 Watts where we have 21. That's a difference of 4 Watts either side. Tail/brakelight on USmodels is 8/25 Watts where we have 5/21. Again, not much difference but still and when you ride in the city a lot... But what certainly is bad for your energyhousehold is when the headlight comes on, before your engine has even started. It is one of these 'refinements' one can do without and who ever invented that should be shot. If I remember well it was carmaker Saab that - to stand out - started all this 'safety' nonsense (another Saabthing I hate is you cannot remove your key unless the handbrake is on but let's not digress). I wonder how you guys cope when you have to do maintenance with the ignition on. Is the headlight then on all that time? I hope not.
So my suggestion would be, look at the wiring scheme for your model and see if you can disconnect that headlight-on-when-ignitionkey-is-on arrangement. IMO if you want to ride a bike and forget to switch on the headlight yourself (naturally after the engine has started) but have to have the bike do that for you, you are not fit to ride anyway.

[madmtnmotors]

The front blinkers that double as running lights consume an extra 16 Watts and Í'm glad we don't have them. So you can simply save 16 Watts by replacing the bulbs by the ones with one filament like found on older models.

Almost. You would also need to replace the dual contact socket with a single contact socket. Easier yet, you could just disconnect the blue/white wire from the front right and the orange/white wire from the front left and voila'! Your front lights would now be signal lights only.