Author Topic: 1971 Honda CB500 - Charging Issue (At wits' end) (Read 14558 times)

zerodaydave · « **Reply #25 on:** June 05, 2016, 05:34:27 PM »

Yea. I have a basic understanding of wiring. Haha.

But I think I get what you are saying and I will show him this.

Also the issue you from yesterday is fixed! Stoked on that.

When we first starting chatting you told me that the Clymer manual was pretty useless. Is there one you recommend?

zerodaydave · « **Reply #26 on:** June 13, 2016, 05:50:33 PM »

Quick update: Bike is running really well. I've been commuting on it for a week or so. I did my first canyon run on it as well so I'm super psyched. Glad to report no electrical issues and battery holding constant above 13v. I did just purchase the m-lock and some bar end lights to replace the led turn signals. I also received the stator I had rewound at Ricks. So I'm gong to pop that in as well to replace the one I got off of ebay.

Thanks again man!

Mr Ed · « **Reply #27 on:** June 27, 2016, 03:25:10 PM »

Sorry to hijack but does the CB 400F also use an electro magnet instead of a physical magnet? Thanks. Ed

scottly · « **Reply #28 on:** June 27, 2016, 06:34:44 PM »

Quote from: Mr Ed on June 27, 2016, 03:25:10 PM

Sorry to hijack but does the CB 400F also use an electro magnet instead of a physical magnet? Thanks. Ed

Yes

Mr Ed · « **Reply #29 on:** June 28, 2016, 12:13:58 PM »

Excellent! Thanks

zerodaydave · « **Reply #30 on:** July 12, 2016, 02:16:33 PM »

Me again!

Back after riding around with no issues for about a month!

This time I took the carbs off cleaned them out and synced them up.

During the syncing process the antigravity 8 cell battery died during the idle process.

I put the battery on a tender and performed a full charge.

Here are the results:

- at terminal 12.89v
- at idle (1k) 12.61v (manual specs 12v)
- at 2000 12.85v (manual specs 12.4v)
- at 3000 12.91v (manual specs 13.2v)
- at 4000 12.91v (manual specs 14.4v)
- at 5000 12.91v (manual specs 14.5v)

I'm correct in assuming I have a problem again right? What could have changed I didn't touch any of the wiring!

The whole charging system is brand new with the exception of the battery which has been discharged a few times when I had my past charging issues.

zerodaydave · « **Reply #31 on:** July 12, 2016, 02:38:31 PM »

Honestly it's been discharged so many times I'm thinking that's what it is too. Question though. Wouldn't the voltage increase while I'm revving even though the battery was bad and couldn't hold it? You should still see the voltage go up to spec right?

scottly · « **Reply #32 on:** July 12, 2016, 07:03:08 PM »

Quote from: zerodaydave on July 12, 2016, 02:38:31 PM

Question though. Wouldn't the voltage increase while I'm revving even though the battery was bad and couldn't hold it? You should still see the voltage go up to spec right?

Yes, if the charging system is working properly, the voltage should go up, more slowly if it is recharging an undercharged "good" battery, and much quicker with a "bad" battery, or no battery at all.

BTW, your "tender" may not be fully charging your battery: after sitting, a fully charged LiFe battery should read over 14V with no load.

zerodaydave · « **Reply #33 on:** July 13, 2016, 07:23:17 AM »

I've ordered a new battery. Hopefully that's it. We will see. Fingers crossed. I didn't load test it because I couldn't find a place around me that could do it. I agree that the full charge is only coming out at 12.89 after 10 hours. In the past it was around 14 like you said.

Everything in the charging system is new like I said. And honestly with the help of Calj737 it was charging to spec up until I took off my carbs and let the battery die twice trying to sync them.

scottly · « **Reply #34 on:** July 13, 2016, 10:56:26 AM »

What are you going to do with the old battery? Can I have it?

zerodaydave · « **Reply #35 on:** July 13, 2016, 12:41:40 PM »

Ha if it isnt a bad battery the old one is going in a KZ400.

scottly · « **Reply #36 on:** July 13, 2016, 06:04:14 PM »

Ahh, shucks.

Seriously, when I got my LiFe 4 cell battery 5 years ago, the first thing I did was conduct bench testing, recording both the charge and discharge characteristics. Based on those tests, it would require an average charging current of 5 Amps for 50 minutes to raise the voltage of your 8 cell from 13V to 14V. Even if your charging system was working properly, it didn't have enough time to recharge the battery, and the "tender" may not be up to the task.
If you want, ship me the battery and I'll do a proper charge and load test for free, but you will have to pay for the round trip.

zerodaydave · « **Reply #37 on:** July 14, 2016, 06:29:52 PM »

So I charged the battery over night and it was at 13.20v.

I tested the bike again and here is what I got:

Terminal 13.20v

Idle (1k) 12.92

2k 13.8v

3k 13.14v

5k 13.14v

So it's all in spec according to the manual except for 3k - 5k should be 14.5k?

I rode the bike to work and back today in stop and go traffic about 20m each way and let the bike sit.

I tested it again and it was at 13.19v.

Sorry for the noob question but do I have an issue? It's charging a little bit right? Is it just weak? Or is it good.

scottly · « **Reply #38 on:** July 14, 2016, 06:55:40 PM »

Sounds like you need to leave the tender on for longer; last time it got the battery up to 12.89V, and this time it got the battery up to 13.20. Your charging system must be doing something, since you ended up with nearly the same voltage you started with. The 13.8V at 2K dropping to 13.14 at 3K and above is troubling though.

zerodaydave · « **Reply #39 on:** July 14, 2016, 07:04:07 PM »

I just got the new battery from and tested it out of the box it's at 13.2v at the terminal.

I threw it in and I have the same results I can't beak past the 13.15v in the 3k - 5k range.

scottly · « **Reply #40 on:** July 14, 2016, 07:29:51 PM »

Place your red voltmeter lead directly on the battery + terminal. Connect the black meter lead to the white wire going to the Ricks regulator. Turn the key on and check the voltage. Report the results.

zerodaydave · « **Reply #41 on:** July 14, 2016, 08:05:51 PM »

There's no white wire. I think it's green as that's the only wire that test would work on. At 3k it was 13.7v reporting with + on the terminal and negative on the green.

scottly · « **Reply #42 on:** July 14, 2016, 08:20:24 PM »

If you got 13.7 volts on a green wire, but only 13.14 at the battery, it suggests a bad ground connection between the battery- and the frame. Test the voltage from the battery- terminal to the green wire where you measured 13.7.

zerodaydave · « **Reply #43 on:** July 14, 2016, 08:25:55 PM »

So positive on the green wire and negative on the negative terminal correct?

scottly · « **Reply #44 on:** July 14, 2016, 08:29:07 PM »

Yeah. And if there is no white wire on the reg, what is connected to the white field coil wire?

zerodaydave · « **Reply #45 on:** July 14, 2016, 08:46:16 PM »

Ok ...

See attached picture of the connector from the stator and field coil. There is a white wire that goes to a white wire from the field cool shown in the pic attached and on the other side that white wire goes into the back of the rectifier/regulator. There is no voltage on that white wire when I tested + to the + terminal and - to the white wire.

zerodaydave · « **Reply #46 on:** July 14, 2016, 08:58:49 PM »

More pictures

scottly · « **Reply #47 on:** July 14, 2016, 09:16:47 PM »

Quote from: zerodaydave on July 14, 2016, 08:46:16 PM

There is no voltage on that white wire when I tested + to the + terminal and - to the white wire.

I would have expected 1 volt, more or less. With the meter black lead connected to battery -, and the red meter lead connected to the white field wire, what is the voltage with the key on?

zerodaydave · « **Reply #48 on:** July 14, 2016, 09:29:07 PM »

Just at idle (1k) it's 11.50v from the field coil wire.

scottly · « **Reply #49 on:** July 14, 2016, 09:39:51 PM »

Ok, now measure the voltage from the battery- to the green field coil wire, as close as you can get to where it exits from under the cover. Key on, but the motor doesn't need to be running.

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Author Topic: 1971 Honda CB500 - Charging Issue (At wits' end) (Read 14558 times)