Topic: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method

[Garage_guy_chris]

Ok so a couple weeks ago i was asking about the thread size of the drain screws. after some dead ends and screwing around on the net for entirely too long i found a happy coincidence. Many Suzuki's use the same thread ( M6 x 0.75 ) on there carburetor drain screws. In addition you can buy an inexpensive tool to do just this "clear tube method" on the zuki carbs.   I will probably email Z1 and see if they will list these gizmo's for our honda's too

I decided to pick up a couple to try, they came today and they screwed right into my spare set of 750 72-76 round tops drain screws! 

anyways here is a link to Z1 enterprises where I found them

https://www.z1enterprises.com/product/ZSM01-208

There is a fancier version which is based on a Suzuki service tool ( # 57001-208 ). I imagine this would work as well but its a fair bit more expensive

https://www.z1enterprises.com/product/57001-208

Anyways heres a few photo's

[MoMo]

Cool , thanks for  researching and posting ...Larry

[JMS28411 I'm no Spring Chicken]

Great, now if only there was a way to adjust the fuel level without removing the float bowls

[flybox1]

Sweet find.

[Deltarider]

My own that I've threaded myself is maybe not as nice but costed nothing. I used it only once. In this forum the checking and adjusting of floatlevels have reached the level of an epidemic. I suppose it has to do with the Clymer manual. In Europe Haynes is used more. There's nothing wrong with checking (have the bike idling), but unless level is more than 2 mm of, I wouldn't bother. You will never feel the difference. But even then before starting to mess with parts that are designed to work well without maintenance, I'd make @#$% sure fuel supply is not hindered in any way and for instance vent tubes are free. Also you may consider using a fuel additive (a little bit can be enough) that keeps the fuel system clean if you do not operate your bike regularly. Such an additive may prevent intermittent sticking float needles.

[PeWe]

Z1 has clear tube tool for Mikuni VM29 smoothbores too.
https://www.z1enterprises.com/product/ZSM-VM29FT
Speci to fit Mikuni RS series too. I have used it on my Mikuni TMR32 (later flatslides). I have only one, check each carb one by one

[calj737]

In this forum the checking and adjusting of floatlevels have reached the level of an epidemic.

I would submit that the single greatest reason many need to perform this "inspection" while you have not is that most every bike on this forum is a recently acquired, previously semi-abandoned project bike of someone else's. Establishing a baseline for known-good configurations in the carbs is not only prudent, but often the very source of issues for many bikes.

Its delightful that you've owned your bike for such an extended time period. But equating what you need to do to maintain it, and that which others need to do to get bikes to run is apples and oranges. So do bear that in mind.

As for an "epidemic" level of maintenance, I see only good outcomes from people learning and correcting things wrong with their machines. 

[evanphi]

Well said, Cal. There's nothing wrong with a little bit of work on your new-to-you bike to ensure everything is correct before you start jumping to conclusions.

You don't want to be this guy:

Also sweet find on those adapters. I made some myself when I ordered new drain screws.

[Deltarider]

As for an "epidemic" level of maintenance, I see only good outcomes from people learning and correcting things wrong with their machines.

Well, that's not exactly what I wrote about, now is it? No Sir, I'd say it's far from it. Here goes. Over the years I've seen a striking difference in frequency of the subject 'float level' between the international (mainly US) site and the European sites (almost none!). I've tried to find out why this is. There's the internet inherited echoing ofcourse, but I've tried to find out if there could be another reason as well. All manuals have faults, even Honda's. Now where Haynes here and there suggests that something hardly ever is a problem, Clymer presents all possible repairs without reservation. By offering their clear tube test, one could think this is often a problem. But if I ask dealers it isn't.
If in one carbrack float levels are much different from one another, I'd be curious to know what caused it. If it's wear, then why isn't equal on all four? I can further inform you that in the years our bikes swarmed the roads, checking the floatlevels was not even on the maintenance list nor is it in the Maintenance Operations section of the Original Honda Shop Manual CB500-550. Again, there's nothing wrong with checking, but I advise: check and doublecheck and think twice before you start tampering with these fragile parts with the risk of sending yourself or the owner after you into the woods. If my advise does not apply to you, good.

[ekpent]

 Who here has made an inexpensive and easy to build carb stand to do that check while the carbs are off the bike. Be a handy item. I always load them up with gas off the machine to check for leaks etc. before reinstall, especially on non SOHC machines that I'm not as familiar with.

[calj737]

Who here has made an inexpensive and easy to build carb stand to do that check while the carbs are off the bike. Be a handy item. I always load them up with gas off the machine to check for leaks etc. before reinstall, especially on non SOHC machines that I'm not as familiar with.

I made a jig to hold them in my bench vise while I set float levels (keeping all 4 level and installed on plate). Works well and there's no reason all 4 carbs can't be measured simultaneously with it.

Before you ask, I'd post a picture except said jig is now in the scrap yard buried with the junk created when my shop roof collapsed. I'll make another in the future and post it.

[evanphi]

Who here has made an inexpensive and easy to build carb stand to do that check while the carbs are off the bike. Be a handy item. I always load them up with gas off the machine to check for leaks etc. before reinstall, especially on non SOHC machines that I'm not as familiar with.

http://www.customfighters.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96473

[calj737]

As for an "epidemic" level of maintenance, I see only good outcomes from people learning and correcting things wrong with their machines.

Well, that's not exactly what I wrote about, now is it? No Sir, I'd say it's far from it.

True, that statement isn't, but I quoted your earlier statement. Yes, Sir, it certainly is what you implied.

Here goes. Over the years I've seen a striking difference in frequency of the subject 'float level' between the international (mainly US) site and the European sites (almost none!). I've tried to find out why this is.

As I stated, likely due to the preponderance of abandoned, new-to-Owners who don't know the history of the bike, or have inherited someone's "project". Simple. Must there be a technical reason in order to assuage your point of view? Your own [sic] "advise" would be well-followed by you; if it doesn't apply to you, good. Why feel compelled to wade in and pontificate on the merits of something you disagree with as you've never had the need nor seem to understand it's requirement? Makes you noisy in my book.

Perhaps you are better suited to following the European sites where those members follow the Haynes book and keep their grubby hands off the floats. Then at least, you wold not be tormented with visions of float bowls a scatter, and prying on fragile carb parts by unskilled North Americans.

[ekpent]

 That PVC set up looks quite nifty plus that stuff is fun to play with. Great idea.

[evanphi]

That PVC set up looks quite nifty plus that stuff is fun to play with. Great idea.

I was thinking of making something like that that would rotate and have some pins so you could flip it over, etc... work on the underside. Then I just said screw it because I didn't need more clutter!

[grcamna2]

I've been using a float level gauge and setting them to the factory spec for years and so far so good.

[DH]

 Again, there's nothing wrong with checking, but I advise: check and doublecheck and think twice before you start tampering with these fragile parts with the risk of sending yourself or the owner after you into the woods. If my advise does not apply to you, good.
[/quote]



This is good advise, and has, at some time ( in many cases) been ignored. A lot of P.O.s went "into the woods" and never came out.
The new owner inherits the problems and must restore things to where they belong. Clear tube can be useful in restoring things.
It's just a verification tool IMO. altho it can be used to fine tune things too, Gauges in link look nice

[seanbarney41]

I agree with Delta that if your float level is correct, don't go bending things up in an effort to adjust.  But here in America, where virtually every bike has been previously owned by, at least, five different ham fisted, mutton headed mechanical retards, you really should do the clear tube check.

[flybox1]

I've been using a float level gauge and setting them to the factory spec for years and so far so good.

Awesome! You know your bike and what is in it.
See picture.....Imagine you get this bike, pull the carbs to clean them.  Check all float levels and you set #2 to 'book' value not knowing what lies underneath, as so many new bike owners do.  The result? High fuel level in bowl #2, and obviously rich running.  Begin tail chasing and multiple threads here about carb tuning, blah, blah, blah.    But 5 minutes verifying fuel level would put the new owner right back into this carb to find out what was wrong.  The float pins were in the bike i just purchased, and the PO wonders why he had carb issues 
Be thorough. Check your work.  The clear tube method is advised for anyone, wanting to verify they did a float adjustment correctly, or if running aftermarket float valves.

[Deltarider]

But here in America, where virtually every bike has been previously owned by, at least, five different ham fisted, mutton headed mechanical retards, you really should do the clear tube check.

+1 and no one can say I haven't been very consistent in my advice: nothing wrong with testing. Just think twice before you start tampering unless your bike was previously owned by a member here.

As I stated, likely due to the preponderance of abandoned, new-to-Owners who don't know the history of the bike, or have inherited someone's "project". Simple. Must there be a technical reason in order to assuage your point of view? Your own [sic] "advise" would be well-followed by you; if it doesn't apply to you, good. Why feel compelled to wade in and pontificate on the merits of something you disagree with as you've never had the need nor seem to understand it's requirement? Makes you noisy in my book.

Perhaps you are better suited to following the European sites where those members follow the Haynes book and keep their grubby hands off the floats. Then at least, you wold not be tormented with visions of float bowls a scatter, and prying on fragile carb parts by unskilled North Americans.

Are you all right? I have offered my view by referring to differences, experienced mechanics and Honda's guidelines? Is it you don't like differences? Don't you like mechanics that have seen far more SOHCs than you and I ever will? What's wrong with Honda's guidelines? Don't you believe people rather ride than tinker? Do you ever ride yourself?

[grcamna2]

I've been using a float level gauge and setting them to the factory spec for years and so far so good.

Awesome! You know your bike and what is in it.
See picture.....Imagine you get this bike, pull the carbs to clean them.  Check all float levels and you set #2 to 'book' value not knowing what lies underneath, as so many new bike owners do.  The result? High fuel level in bowl #2, and obviously rich running.  Begin tail chasing and multiple threads here about carb tuning, blah, blah, blah.    But 5 minutes verifying fuel level would put the new owner right back into this carb to find out what was wrong.  The float pins were in the bike i just purchased, and the PO wonders why he had carb issues 
Be thorough. Check your work.  The clear tube method is advised for anyone, wanting to verify they did a float adjustment correctly, or if running aftermarket float valves.

I understand what you mean about aftermarket float valves,I used to use them but now replace them with new oem float valves(after i convince the owner they are the best)on all the bikes I work on.
I have only used the float level gauge to factory spec on the many bikes I work on and so far haven't used the 'clear tube method' to double-check the level.I imagine it would give you a very accurate 'real world' level in the float bowls.When I do carbs. I would rather fully sort-out all the components before assembling them and calling it 'done';I don't like doing the same job twice.

[flybox1]

I don't like doing the same job twice.

+100 
Properly maintaining one of these bikes isn't exactly cheap.
Unfortunately, cheap parts are everywhere. . . .

[calj737]

Don't you believe people rather ride than tinker? Do you ever ride yourself?

Depends upon the person I guess whether they'd rather tinker or ride. Reliability is required to ride.

As for riding myself, yes I do, Thank you. By the way, I've got my spurs in you pretty deep right now. I ride as often as weather permits, but over the past 6 years its limited me to less than 40k miles. I don't know whether that constitutes being a qualified rider in your Hymnal.

[grcamna2]

I don't like doing the same job twice.

+100 
Properly maintaining one of these bikes isn't exactly cheap.
Unfortunately, cheap parts are everywhere. . . .

You got me doing some serious thinking now about 'the clear tube method' flybox.
Do you think using one of those tools can help me detect a leaking float valve? I can see merit in getting one if it will help me fine-tune/diagnose the bike more accurately. I would like if I could order all the necessary clear tube adapters to fit the different Keihin and Mikuni carbs. How many different bikes have you used this on ?

[flybox1]

On my 350/550, i just taper trim a section of tubing to twist into the bowl drain screw hole.
My 750's PD carbs allow me to place the tube on the overflow pipe, so no parts like this are needed.
It cant show you a float needle is leaking, but it will show you what your fuel level is.
If you used the factory tool to set the float heights (confident it is perfect) your fuel level should fall in that +/- 3mm below bowl top edge range.
If it doesn't, further investigation is needed 
Check float pin smoothness.
Check float needle slides smoothly in its seat.
Check floats are not twisted on their hinge axis (one of the float lobes will measure differently than the other)
check for wear ring around tip of float needle preventing it from seating/sealing.
Compare all float needles for differences, like my picture above.