Author Topic: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method  (Read 8346 times)

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Offline grcamna2

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Re: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2016, 09:03:46 am »
On my 350/550, i just taper trim a section of tubing to twist into the bowl drain screw hole.
My 750's PD carbs allow me to place the tube on the overflow pipe, so no parts like this are needed.
It cant show you a float needle is leaking, but it will show you what your fuel level is.
If you used the factory tool to set the float heights (confident it is perfect) your fuel level should fall in that +/- 3mm below bowl top edge range.
If it doesn't, further investigation is needed  :-\
Check float pin smoothness.
Check float needle slides smoothly in its seat.
Check floats are not twisted on their hinge axis (one of the float lobes will measure differently than the other)
check for wear ring around tip of float needle preventing it from seating/sealing.
Compare all float needles for differences, like my picture above.

I appreciate the checklist. I think I will try using a certain dia. of clear tube and taper/trim it to fit inside the drain screw hole w/ the screw removed,I can possibly be able to find a few different diameters to work on many different size drain screw applications.  :)
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 09:07:49 am by grcamna2 »
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Offline strynboen

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Re: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2016, 09:04:00 am »
you can use komp air to adjust the flots..its easyer and dont have fuel floting all over...but need a regulator to get lov pressure..just put air in the fuel line..it are klerly vhen the floth snapp the air flow

on my 550 i use the drain tap to test..and on a400 i can press the fuel line in the hole..and" it are leak free
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 09:09:11 am by strynboen »
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Re: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2016, 12:20:50 pm »
A sight window in the bowl with a "full line" indicating correct fuel level would be nice. Like some of the imports
(for us) cars used to have.

Offline grcamna2

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Re: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2016, 12:23:32 pm »
A sight window in the bowl with a "full line" indicating correct fuel level would be nice. Like some of the imports
(for us) cars used to have.

I had a carb. I rebuilt on an old Datsun truck that had that.
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Offline persson-johan@hotmail.com

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Re: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2016, 01:27:30 pm »
Nice! Ive been looking for something like this quite a while!

One factor to consider when setting the float level by measuring the float dry is that after 40+ years the plastic ones definitely don't float as they used to since they hardened and shrinked. The only accurate way to set a float of unknown condition is by the "clear tube" way.

What's the total cost with shipping for you US guys? They want 20-30 bucks in shipping for me in Sweden. Maby I could buy from someone here if you are ordering?


Offline Eydugstr

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Re: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2016, 01:36:08 pm »
To the OP - TY for posting this!

Offline Deltarider

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Re: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2016, 01:57:26 pm »
Quote
What's the total cost with shipping for you US guys? They want 20-30 bucks in shipping for me in Sweden. Maby I could buy from someone here if you are ordering?
Come on, man, walk into some metal workshop and have it machined (threaded?) for you while u wait.
It's a shame no one in this forum has machined some in the first place. To sell to the rest of the members I mean. Some copper tube and a 0.75 6mm threader (?) is all what it takes. If I can do it, anyone else can.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 01:59:13 pm by Deltarider »
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Offline Bailgang

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Re: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method
« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2016, 02:52:28 pm »
Quote
What's the total cost with shipping for you US guys? They want 20-30 bucks in shipping for me in Sweden. Maby I could buy from someone here if you are ordering?
Come on, man, walk into some metal workshop and have it machined (threaded?) for you while u wait.
It's a shame no one in this forum has machined some in the first place. To sell to the rest of the members I mean. Some copper tube and a 0.75 6mm threader (?) is all what it takes. If I can do it, anyone else can.

Delta, you'd make a great motivational speaker. :)
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Offline Don R

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Re: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method
« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2016, 03:53:49 pm »
 Around here if you walk into a machine shop with a project like these they just roll their eyes. Thanks for the link, and doing the legwork. I could list a couple times I needed clear tubes but i'm obviously not as good at carbs as some guys are.
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Offline greenjeans

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Re: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method
« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2016, 06:32:54 am »
If you have a collection of old carb parts, you can also take a drain screw and drill it all the way through.
Then take the edge of the screw and grind it down until the tubing will fit over the screw.

I am going to make a carb rack this weekend that will sit on a table and/or fit into a vise.  I'm going to make it have the ability to rotate.  Can't believe I haven't made one yet.   Will post the results.
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Offline grcamna2

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Re: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method
« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2016, 08:05:15 am »
Around here if you walk into a machine shop with a project like these they just roll their eyes. Thanks for the link, and doing the legwork. I could list a couple times I needed clear tubes but i'm obviously not as good at carbs as some guys are.

The same thing with machine shops around here;if you want something done around here 'you've got to know somebody'..
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Offline flybox1

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Re: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method
« Reply #36 on: June 02, 2016, 08:24:55 am »
Buy a (10pk) baggie of M6 x .75 straight grease fittings for $8 and drill the tip hole big enough to pop out the check ball and spring ;)

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Offline 754

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Re: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method
« Reply #37 on: June 02, 2016, 08:35:31 am »
 The grease nipple may not have enough head to allow the o ring to seal against carb body.
 
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Offline flybox1

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Re: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method
« Reply #38 on: June 02, 2016, 08:48:19 am »
The grease nipple may not have enough head to allow the o ring to seal against carb body..
true.  washer first, then oring  ;)
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Offline grcamna2

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Re: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method
« Reply #39 on: June 02, 2016, 09:17:56 am »
Good idea !  :)
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
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Offline Deltarider

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Re: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method
« Reply #40 on: June 02, 2016, 11:55:00 pm »
Flybox, compliments, that's the ingenuity we love.
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Offline flybox1

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Re: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method
« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2016, 06:51:17 am »
Flybox, compliments, that's the ingenuity we love.
Thank you, Delta. :)
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

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Offline PeWe

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Re: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method
« Reply #42 on: June 03, 2016, 07:44:57 am »
Check the fuel level in carbs is a must if the bike run rich at idle. Or too lean on the road in higher speed.
I had to check the floats in my smoothbores since i had very rich idle and sooted plugs. Change jets/air screws did not help. I got the hint in this forum to check floats when they must be flooding. I did not accept that when the carbs worked  better 30 years ago. (Probably not perfect when the only plug that did not sooted to non functional state after 15 minutes was NGK D8EA)
I understood after a while that the floats must be flooding. Check float height by measure in mm saw I as useless when the floats might be flooding anyway due to bad valves, floats stucked. Clear tube will tell as it also did, the float level was 1mm over instead of 2-4mm under.
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Offline Duanob

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Re: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method
« Reply #43 on: June 03, 2016, 10:16:16 am »
Quote
As for an "epidemic" level of maintenance, I see only good outcomes from people learning and correcting things wrong with their machines.

Well, that's not exactly what I wrote about, now is it? No Sir, I'd say it's far from it. Here goes. Over the years I've seen a striking difference in frequency of the subject 'float level' between the international (mainly US) site and the European sites (almost none!). I've tried to find out why this is. There's the internet inherited echoing ofcourse, but I've tried to find out if there could be another reason as well. All manuals have faults, even Honda's. Now where Haynes here and there suggests that something hardly ever is a problem, Clymer presents all possible repairs without reservation. By offering their clear tube test, one could think this is often a problem. But if I ask dealers it isn't.
If in one carbrack float levels are much different from one another, I'd be curious to know what caused it. If it's wear, then why isn't equal on all four? I can further inform you that in the years our bikes swarmed the roads, checking the floatlevels was not even on the maintenance list nor is it in the Maintenance Operations section of the Original Honda Shop Manual CB500-550. Again, there's nothing wrong with checking, but I advise: check and doublecheck and think twice before you start tampering with these fragile parts with the risk of sending yourself or the owner after you into the woods. If my advise does not apply to you, good.

Dude, we all know you suffer from carbophopia, why spread it to everyone else? I enjoy working on my carbs and making sure they are correct. All bikes that have sat around for more than a couple of years with ethanol fuel in them should be dismantled and cleaned. Then a carb sync is in order. And no i don't want to hear about your special gas you have in europe that we don't have over here. That's life we deal with it.

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Offline Deltarider

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Re: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method
« Reply #44 on: June 03, 2016, 11:48:21 am »
Quote
Dude, we all know you suffer from carbophopia, why spread it to everyone else? I enjoy working on my carbs and making sure they are correct. All bikes that have sat around for more than a couple of years with ethanol fuel in them should be dismantled and cleaned. Then a carb sync is in order. And no i don't want to hear about your special gas you have in europe that we don't have over here. That's life we deal with it.
Sir, with all dude respect, I posted about striking differences I've seen in the various SOHC Four sites where it concerns the approach towards carbs. I've looked for a cause and I put it that beside the internet echo's (it Always seems to come in waves) maybe, maybe it has to do with a difference in the way the Haynes manual presents things and the way Clymer does it. It is for everybody to decide what is useful for him or her. But even when a set of carbs has been lying around for 30 years, in principle cleaning is all what it takes. Then there's dismantling and dismantling. For instance separating the carbs from eachother has nothing to do with it. I've not seen one SOHC carbrack yet, no matter how old or neglected, where the desmodromic didn't still function as it should. You seem to be in dialogue with me. I direct my experience to others that are often new to these bikes and carbs. If this forum would be their only source, they could easily conclude that all this work that others describe is necessary and 'the way to do it'. In their (newcomers) interest I'd like to shed another light. Why it is so painful for you, I don't know. Talking about phobia let me illustrate my point a bit further, if I may. If I had the buyers choice between two identical bikes, one from someone that has never touched the carbs and the other from somebody (could be you) who tells me he has spent hours on the carbs, which bike do you think I'd choose? Which bike would you choose? Got it? For simple machines, I like to give simple tips, like how people could start the timing of the ignition by just adjusting the breakerpoints and how they can do carb maintenance by simply removing the floatbowls. I am far from telling people they should raise/lower the needles (What?! Over the internet?!) without having seen the bike. I wouldn't dare commenting on plug colouring and how could I ever? Are our screens calibrated then?
Most complaints about US gas are by your countrymen (and if you do a search I'm sure you'll find the corn syrupfree type that they recommend) and oh, Europe is spelled with a capital and 'phobia' has a 'b' in it. I wish you a very pleasant day.
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Offline calj737

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Re: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method
« Reply #45 on: June 03, 2016, 12:37:43 pm »
If I had the buyers choice between two identical bikes, one from someone that has never touched the carbs and the other from somebody (could be you) who tells me he has spent hours on the carbs, which bike do you think I'd choose?
Neither. We all know you're too cheap to buy anything new. And why on Earth would you risk buying a new bike that you haven't owned since man began walking upright?You might actually have to adjust the carbs.  :o ::) ::) ::)
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Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method
« Reply #46 on: June 03, 2016, 01:01:13 pm »
A sight window in the bowl with a "full line" indicating correct fuel level would be nice. Like some of the imports
(for us) cars used to have.

I wanted to do the same thing, but the sight holes are about $20 a piece.  $80 to look at the fuel level of the carbs.

Here is the thread if you want to read up on it  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107297.0

Offline grcamna2

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Re: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method
« Reply #47 on: June 03, 2016, 01:15:37 pm »
A sight window in the bowl with a "full line" indicating correct fuel level would be nice. Like some of the imports
(for us) cars used to have.

I wanted to do the same thing, but the sight holes are about $20 a piece.  $80 to look at the fuel level of the carbs.

Here is the thread if you want to read up on it  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107297.0

I like that idea as long as I could confidently seal the 'sight window' from leaking.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline Deltarider

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Re: 750: Found new inexpensive tool for clear tube method
« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2016, 08:39:15 am »
Quote
Neither. We all know you're too cheap to buy anything new. And why on Earth would you risk buying a new bike that you haven't owned since man began walking upright?You might actually have to adjust the carbs.  :o ::) ::) ::)
As soon as I find a cameraman, I'll demonstrate how I do the maintenance with the carbs in situ and I will do it blindfolded. Now who is carbuphobic?
For who is interested - and tired of removing the carbrack with the danger of damaging the boots - you'll find the directions for a normal inspection here.
1. Unscrew the 4 floatbowl screws (later to be replaced by same size allen screws)
2. Pull floatbowl carefully downwards in a straight line. If you number the floatbowls 1,2,3 and 4, you can use them as containers for all the brass parts of that particular carb.
3. Remove springleaf
4. Remove float by carefully(!) extracting it's swingpin. Don't pinch it when you use pliers and do not exercise force. Some manage to break their whatever it is called (towers?). If the swingpin is hard to extract, spray some WD-40. Caution: whilst removing the float, have your free hand cupped under it to collect the tiny floatneedle that will fall down. Don't loose it! They are expensive.
5. Pull the main jet using your thumb and finger. Some wiggling does it.
6. After removing the main jets twist the throttle wide open so the slide and the needles will rise and with your free hand insert from below a match or wooden toothpick into the needle jets (aka emulsion tubes). When that is snug in the needle jet, cant or turn the wooden toothpick a mm or so and you can wiggle the emulsion tube out easily. Some WD-40 at forehand can help. Essential in this procedure is that you open the throttle so the needles are up. BTW, sometimes the needle jet just drops by itself after the main jet is removed, so start with your hand cupped under it.
7. Use a small screwdriver and 'slid it in sideways (horizontally)' to unscrew the slow jet. Spraying a little bit of WD-40 may be of help. Think first and make sure you turn it in the right direction. Gently!
8. All parts go in 1,2,3,4, numbered floatbowls or little containers
9. Now all parts can be inspected and cleaned. Also carefully inspect the tiny O-rings that seal the main jets.
10. The airscrews (in the sides of the carbs) can be removed at all times. Caution: do not loose the little spring under them. On these carbs they don't have tiny O-rings.
11. Back to the carbbodies. Use a can carbcleaner with a straw and spray from below the carbbodies upwards in all it's orifices. Don't forget the openings where the airscrews sat.
12. Install in reverse order. Do not overtighten the slow jets! But it has to sit welll or it will come down (happened to me once).
13. Install floatbowl using new little allen screws instead of the old dreadful crosshead screws. Much easier for future removals.

You need to be at ease and well concentrated. Don't hurry. On a CB500 carb #1 and #2 are a bit harder due to the presence of the clutchcable. Make it a Zen exercise (that's how Soichiro designed motorcycles, with Zen). I can do it blindfolded and after the first time so can you.
This method can be exercised with 022A, 069A, 087A, 627B, 649A carbs.

If you must be at the needles (if you really must) in principle this can also be done with the carbs in situ, but I myself prefer to have the rack on the table. But remember, once you've loosened the carbarms you're in for another sync (Some can't get enough of that). Although I did the procedure out of curiosity, I have the feeling that as far as the 500/550 you can do a lot of tuning with just the main jets and airscrews and leave the needles where they are - and except in this site - that is common practice. And I'm sick and tired of seeing the same carb diagrams (which does what when) over and over again. It's from the books and just doesn't match my own experience. If you feel you must change the needle position (if you really must) use a good JIS screwdriver to undo the little crossheads in there or you will ruin their heads.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2016, 01:25:09 am by Deltarider »
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