Author Topic: Cold header pipe # 1 cylinder - eventually kicks in (Read 6532 times)

b1jackson · « **on:** May 31, 2016, 02:54:27 PM »

My 550 is starting very well. Now that the outside temp has warmed up, it fires pretty much as soon as you hit the starter button. But number one cylinder seems to be late to fire up. I feather the throttle and it clatters abit and runs rough. After about 30 seconds, if I shut it off, the header pipe is dead cold. All others are warm.

I pull the plug, there is plenty of spark there and the plug is slightly wet. Plugs are brand new and I've even swapped the plug with a known working one and it seems to do the same thing.

Eventually if I head out on the road or rev it up abit, it suddenly kicks in and works good. It's always the same cylinder. What could be causing this?

flybox1 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 31, 2016, 02:57:57 PM »

tell us what you have recently done to the bike, including any maintenance items.

Air, Spark, Fuel. You've eliminated spark as the issue. Move on to the others.

b1jackson · « **Reply #2 on:** May 31, 2016, 04:47:25 PM »

I really haven't done anything. I bought it as a non runner. Put a battery in it and it started and ran pretty good. The PO put a new set of plugs and air filter in it. There is a new fuel filter inline as well. I've given it liberal doses of seafoam as well.

And just as a follow up I may actually be running on 3 cylinders. I went for a 15 minute ride and when I came back, I squirted a little wd40 on each header. The middle two sizzled off the wd40, the outside #4 did too but slightly less and #1 did nothing and was obviously still cold or not hot enough to evaporate wd40. All cylinders had good compression of over 100lbs I believe it was. Also tested all those before I even started.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 31, 2016, 06:39:17 PM »

Check and adjust the valve lash would be my suggestion for your next step. (tension the cam chain first)

mystic_1

harisuluv · « **Reply #4 on:** May 31, 2016, 06:44:23 PM »

We need to start from the basics of what you've given us.

How are you concluding that the cylinder "kicks in."

In other words, you're right, and then X happens, then you say my cylinder is firing now because X happened. What is X?

navydad · « **Reply #5 on:** May 31, 2016, 06:52:12 PM »

Same issue with #3 on my 650. Cause was a plugged low speed jet in #3 carb.

NoLuck · « **Reply #6 on:** May 31, 2016, 07:55:45 PM »

Did you check to see if you had fuel in carb #1? Drain the carb to see if it had fuel like all the others?

Did you check resistance in OHM's for your #1 spark plug boot, and on the spark plug wire?

RevDoc · « **Reply #7 on:** May 31, 2016, 08:25:41 PM »

B1, you say you bought the bike as a non-runner. What was the reason the PO gave for it not running.? Did you go to the download page and get the shop manual for your bike and go through the complete 3K checklist to establish a proper base-line to work from to sort out any issues? Many times that alone will resolve problems so you are not randomly shooting in the dark.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 31, 2016, 08:39:38 PM »

Quote from: RevDoc on May 31, 2016, 08:25:41 PM

get the shop manual for your bike and go through the complete 3K checklist

That's exactly where i was going too, need to run through the basics first, cam chain and valves are the first step then timing then carbs. One system affects the next so do them in order.

Although, if the bike had been sitting and the carbs haven't been cleaned yet, then the problem is very likely to be a clogged jet.

mystic_1

Hondawggie · « **Reply #9 on:** May 31, 2016, 09:40:09 PM »

Quote from: b1jackson on May 31, 2016, 02:54:27 PM

My 550 is starting very well. Now that the outside temp has warmed up, it fires pretty much as soon as you hit the starter button. But number one cylinder seems to be late to fire up. I feather the throttle and it clatters abit and runs rough. After about 30 seconds, if I shut it off, the header pipe is dead cold. All others are warm.

I pull the plug, there is plenty of spark there and the plug is slightly wet. Plugs are brand new and I've even swapped the plug with a known working one and it seems to do the same thing.

Eventually if I head out on the road or rev it up abit, it suddenly kicks in and works good. It's always the same cylinder. What could be causing this?

How many miles are on it?

b1jackson · « **Reply #10 on:** June 01, 2016, 01:39:27 AM »

32000 miles

b1jackson · « **Reply #11 on:** June 01, 2016, 01:47:07 AM »

Quote from: NoLuck on May 31, 2016, 07:55:45 PM

Did you check to see if you had fuel in carb #1? Drain the carb to see if it had fuel like all the others?

Did you check resistance in OHM's for your #1 spark plug boot, and on the spark plug wire?

Yes, all carbs getting fuel as I drained each bowl several times. I'm wondering if it's weak coil as I'm not convinced that cylinder 4 is performing that well either. So I'll test those with my multimeter tonight as per No Luck's similar thread.

Just to update, it doesnt kick back in and run on all 4. After a road test, cylinder 1 is still cold.

Deltarider · « **Reply #12 on:** June 01, 2016, 02:42:55 AM »

Quote

You've eliminated spark as the issue.

Not yet. If you have spark with the plug out and against the engine, it doesn't mean you have spark when plug is replaced. So start with the easiest.
Whilst idling check carefully if there are any sparks flying between #1 plugcap and/or HTlead and the head (ground). This is best observed in the dark. You can often hear it. Although this is a common complaint on CB500/550s, it's often overlooked.

Quote

the outside #4 did too but slightly less

Also check here as described. Then I'd check both plugcaps #1 and #4. First: were they well connected to their leads or so and so? I'd unscrew them from their leads and measure resistance of each individual plugcap. 5-8KΩ is OK, >10KΩ is bad. This is a simple test that everybody with a multimeter* can do. When plugcaps are good, trim 1-2 mm of the HTlead and screw them back on. Please report back. Also on what type plugs you run and what model CB550 we're talking about.
* If you don't have and can't lend a multimeter, I'd advice to buy one, preferably an automotive one that can read dwell.

b1jackson · « **Reply #13 on:** June 01, 2016, 05:07:57 AM »

Thanks all for the tips and possible leads. I'll update when I can. Working all day and this is just an evening/weekend wrencher and not my daily driver.

flybox1 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 01, 2016, 07:00:36 AM »

I need to see a picture of the clear tube test being performed on carb bowl #1

NoLuck · « **Reply #15 on:** June 01, 2016, 08:47:29 AM »

Also did you check that all your pilot jet screws were the same amount of turns out? How many turns out is your #1 carb? If it's fully closed this could possibly be a problem.
Also have the carbs been synched?
I still think it could be a spark issue

b1jackson · « **Reply #16 on:** June 03, 2016, 02:02:55 AM »

Quick update:

All plug caps are 5 ohms with the exception of #4 being 4.7 which I assume is OK. The between leads is around 25 ohms accounting for the boots reinstalled. A couple of the thin wires coming out of the coil had been scraped up with the insulation cut back so I polished up any corrosion on the tips of the connector and put on some shrink wrap and ditched the old stiff electrical tape.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #17 on:** June 03, 2016, 05:33:46 AM »

Quote from: b1jackson on June 03, 2016, 02:02:55 AM

A couple of the thin wires coming out of the coil had been scraped up with the insulation cut back...

Which coil? The issue remains?

Check resistance of the coils. Leads in black/white wire and colored wires (blue and yellow) of each coil.

Try swapping the blue and yellow wires that go to the coils. So yellow is connected to blue wire in coil and blue wire is connected to yellow wire in coil. Then swap the plug wires around so 1/4 are on 2/3 plugs and vice versa. See if the issue moves to the 2/3 cylinders. Edit: can someone confirm that you need to swap the plug wires from 1/4 to 2/3 for this test to work? I'm unsure if not doing this would put your bike out of time and make the test not work.

Second test: Behind your points cover, switch the condenser wires (should be green) on the points.

b1jackson · « **Reply #18 on:** June 03, 2016, 07:26:49 AM »

Yes, I'll do the full coil test tonight. The nicked up wires I repaired were on the coil firing #1 and #4 so that may have been a contributing factor. All connections are getting a polish with emery cloth and a little dab of dielectric grease.

Deltarider · « **Reply #19 on:** June 03, 2016, 10:09:35 AM »

Quote

All plug caps are 5 ohms with the exception of #4 being 4.7 which I assume is OK.

If you mean KΩ they're OK.

Quote

The between leads is around 25 ohms accounting for the boots reinstalled.

Not sure what you mean here.

Quote

A couple of the thin wires coming out of the coil had been scraped up with the insulation cut back so I polished up any corrosion on the tips of the connector and put on some shrink wrap and ditched the old stiff electrical tape.

Are these stock coils? Picture? Important is the plugcaps screw on well.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #20 on:** June 03, 2016, 11:45:34 AM »

Quote from: Deltarider on June 03, 2016, 10:09:35 AM

Quote
The between leads is around 25 ohms accounting for the boots reinstalled.
Not sure what you mean here.

I think he means he tested resistance from one plug wire end to the other without taking the plug caps off. Like from 1/4 and then from 2/3. So around 10k ohms for both plug caps and about 15k ohms for the wires I think that's an acceptable range.

b1jackson · « **Reply #21 on:** June 03, 2016, 02:10:08 PM »

http://blacksquaremotorcycle.com/ignition-coils-test/

Using this as my guide

flybox1 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 03, 2016, 02:13:10 PM »

http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/troubleshooting_charging_system/troubleshooting_charging_system.pdf

b1jackson · « **Reply #23 on:** June 03, 2016, 02:53:50 PM »

Hmm. Testing the coils as per the link I posted and 0.01 is the only reading I can get from each coil. All wires disconnected from the harness. These are stock coils. I'm a long way off 4 ohms. If I have such weak spark, how does it even run?

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #24 on:** June 03, 2016, 03:34:59 PM »

Quote from: b1jackson on June 03, 2016, 02:53:50 PM

Hmm. Testing the coils as per the link I posted and 0.01 is the only reading I can get from each coil. All wires disconnected from the harness. These are stock coils. I'm a long way off 4 ohms. If I have such weak spark, how does it even run?

If you're getting that reading on both coils when your only complaint is 1/4 and 2/3 is firing fine then you must be testing it wrong.

Snap a clear picture of the coils, meter with leads and the wires you're connecting to all in one picture if you can.

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Author Topic: Cold header pipe # 1 cylinder - eventually kicks in (Read 6532 times)