Author Topic: sohc5 up and running  (Read 5328 times)

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Offline turboguzzi

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sohc5 up and running
« on: June 10, 2016, 12:35:31 pm »

Am following george’s request, but since it’s not a sohc4, doing a separate thread
 
And sorry for tricking you in with a catchy title, it’s a sohc single with five valves, not 5 cylinders .... :)
 
So building this frankenstein kept me occupied on and off for the last two-three years. Frankestein as in: 1992 TZ250 4DP frame, 1992 XTZ660 motor bored to 700cc pretty hotly tuned (12.5:1 CR, twin 38mm flatslides, massive porting, etc.) , ducati 916 fork, TZ250 front wheel, ducati monster rear wheel, one-off isle of man TZ long type fuel tank, Aprilia RS125/250 bodywork, Honda TSR250 “bumble bee” tail, ZX6R carbon silencer, unknown source water radiator and the list goes on. Any wonder why it took a while to match together and complete?
 
Let’s add to the list various trial and errors iterations for oil tank & venting systems (got precious advice from hipo sohcers on here...), one failed try to build a crank end starter which led to having to build a proper 7HP rear wheel starter, that 700 lump with high CR laughed at any other start method.
 
But now that it’s up and running as it should, it already repaid the effort with huge satisfaction, and with time in my hands I could even make it pretty, unheard off! First race in Vallelunga everybody was going on with “che bella!” and even Russell Benny, owner of world champion  Phase One endurance team gave me his compliments. The guy made my day.
 
I kind of imagined that riding a pukka race bike would feel different than anything street based and it really is, with 280 lbs weight, 75hp, modern geometry, suspension and tires.... talk about a scalpel, bike limits are way beyond my own. And thats before even running slicks. Will take little steps here, moving on from medium compound contis to softs and then maybe slicks next year. Also still need to get used to use the torque rather than the revs of an I-4.
 
Only bummer is that for now we are only 4-5 supermonos so no separate category, we’re all grouped to doing regularity with the early 90’s superbikes and 600 supersports. Hopefully more supermonos will pop up and we’ll be racing for real. The category was extremely popular in europe but essentially died when 600’s got so good and cheap to run. Honestly, I am having so much fun diving under those heavy superbikes in turns that i really dont mind.
 
Last, a personal story. People will tell you that racing bikes are dangerous and that it will all end in tears. Well, for me this one is just the opposite. Two and a half years ago I was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes and became insulin dependent from day one, that’s pretty much a turned-upside-down-for-life condition. Wasn’t even sure I will even be allowed to race again. So  this project kept me going through a really difficult period, giving me tons of motivation and the day I passed my medical test for my racing license renewal I felt like born again. So next time people tell you about the dangers of racing, you have a good story to defend our cause :)

Offline simon#42

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2016, 03:07:48 pm »
you should have left the tz250 engine in it yossef !

it would have been quicker , lighter and you would have been able to start it by turning the back wheel with your hand .

is this what happens when you stop eating chocolate ?

Offline JohnN

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2016, 03:14:56 pm »
Impressive bike and story. That would fit our Open Singles class- keep us posted on results, I'd like to try a project like that myself.
John
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Offline turboguzzi

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2016, 04:14:15 pm »
you should have left the tz250 engine in it yossef !

it would have been quicker , lighter and you would have been able to start it by turning the back wheel with your hand .

is this what happens when you stop eating chocolate ?
Simon, bought the frame before i got diagnosed and the original motor was never there to begin with.  and where would all the fun and tech challenge of figuring it all out be with a ready to race TZ? :) it was a deliberate free choice to re-engineer the whole thing even if i thought it'd be easier :)  not complaining.... quite the opposite, amazingly beautiful learning experience and I'm a tinkerer at hearth.
BTW i can eat 90% cacao chocolate regularly or even get cake when i get a "low"!

Offline scottly

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2016, 05:43:17 pm »


I kind of imagined that riding a pukka race bike would feel different than anything street based and it really is, with 280 lbs weight, 75hp, modern geometry, suspension and tires.... talk about a scalpel, bike limits are way beyond my own. And thats before even running slicks.
Sounds like a potent weapon to me! ;D Four strokes are much more tractable than two strokes, and less likely to suddenly spin the rear tire, in my experience. What RPM is the 75hp figure at?
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline mystic_1

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2016, 07:19:58 pm »
What is this i don't even...




mystic_1
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."
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My build thread:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68952.0

Offline mystic_1

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2016, 07:20:55 pm »
 :o

"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."
- John Augustus Shedd

My build thread:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68952.0

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2016, 01:23:59 am »
yes, that's it mystic. in the usa this motor is well known, it's in Raptor 660 Quads!

around 8000 scottly

Offline bwaller

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2016, 05:54:49 am »
Glad you're happy TG, it has been a lot of focus on your part getting it ready. 4 stroke on rails.

It was decided to temporarily include this type bike in our modern GP class (modern 2 strokes) by a majority vote at our annual meeting. This created a huge hub bub withing the GP ranks. They fought so long for their own non diesel class and felt the new bikes would be going backwards. Ultimately there were no new singles at the first round so I don't know what will happen. If they don't show in numbers the whole idea will be poopooed by the end of the season.

I thought you would have many more racing there, shows what I know! Maybe a flash in the pan idea? I hope not for your sake.

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2016, 06:16:39 am »
we're thinking about it brent, the 2 strokes are more into corner speed, the superbikes are more or less parked mid turn :)
and yes, we expect the 2 stroke guys not to like the idea.....

Offline simon#42

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2016, 07:25:37 am »
at one time the singles were very popular in England  . i raced a 250 in a series called superclub , it was decent  quality racing in all classes . unfortunately our race was always the one after the singles
and was always delayed while they cleaned the track up after them . eventually they moved them to the race before dinner break and the last race to make cleaning up easier
bsb also had them as a support race once but the cleaning up played havoc with the tv schedule and they were never invited back .
actually racing them was not so bad they do run fast corner speed like a 250 they are just 50 or so pounds heavier and have a couple of hp less
i cant see the attraction in building one though , hard to start , hard to keep cool while waiting for your race and as reliable as a politicians promise .

yossef its a pity my aprilia's have been sold . i could have let you see just what precise handling is , your 92 is a good frame but is slow steering compared to the latter stuff .

on the plus side if there are only 4 or 5 of them starting the race there will only be a couple finish so it should be podiums all year !

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2016, 08:39:17 am »
thanks for the gentle ribbing simon, but here i am stuck with my odd creation....  luckily this year we are doing regularity together with the 92' SBKs, so me being dog slow will not matter that much :) nice relief ! 

Offline ivanhoew

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2016, 01:28:23 pm »
i had a rotax super mono on  the chassis dyno  once , 72 bhp. i warned the chap about using  soft slick , after a bit of running there was a chunk of rubber missing from the tyre every 6 inches ....we worked out that was on each firing stroke .

he gave me an old hyjeira box section frame ,with a mono skock and rsu forks, oh and weird rivetted ally wheels ..., still have not done anything with it .


robert.
just do it .

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2016, 02:27:21 pm »
would be nice to see a pic robert. i remeber that hejira built some carbon frames for rotax singles.... is it one of them?

Offline 754

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2016, 06:23:19 pm »
Sounds like Astrallite wheels..
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Offline ivanhoew

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2016, 11:29:13 pm »
hi TG


 ...no not carbon , way before then i think , its on pretty slim tyres ,maybe a 350 rear wheel , 754, that sounds about right , they are just raw ally,,,hold on let me go and guggle astralite ..... and yup that's what they are .

its a bit buried under tarps and engines , i will try to get some close ups . i did wonder about building another turbo 500 twin for it .the chassis is totally made up of straight box section steel ,pretty ugly , but maybe functional .

robert.
just do it .

Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2016, 06:24:38 am »
and those quads are fun as can be, although a bit overweight.
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Offline simon#42

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2016, 08:26:11 am »
i had a rotax super mono on  the chassis dyno  once , 72 bhp. i warned the chap about using  soft slick , after a bit of running there was a chunk of rubber missing from the tyre every 6 inches ....we worked out that was on each firing stroke .

he gave me an old hyjeira box section frame ,with a mono skock and rsu forks, oh and weird rivetted ally wheels ..., still have not done anything with it .


robert.

the hejeria  frame is much better than it looks , they helped me with an rg500 back in the day and were very good
i am also a fan of astralite wheels , they are strong yet will give in a crash saving your frame  they also dont really
deteriorate  with age like a mag wheel , on the down side they are a bugger to clean .

Offline Mitchell

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2016, 07:01:56 am »
Very sweet build turnoguzzi. i dont know much about these motors but have riden a few raptors and know how powerful they are, i bet your race bike is a blast. And your not alone on the forums here im a type 1 diabetic as well, im glad to see it hasent stopped you from doing what you love.

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2016, 10:20:28 am »
tnxs mitchell, indeed the US raptor market means that there are plenty race parts available, cranks, rods, pistons. cam are bit more tricky as most raptor ones are made for better pull down low, mine wakes up only at about 5500 :)  take real care, yossef

Offline ivanhoew

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2016, 12:09:27 pm »
would be nice to see a pic robert. i remeber that hejira built some carbon frames for rotax singles.... is it one of them?


piccys ...











just do it .

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2016, 02:43:27 pm »
uhm... interesting :)

resurrected some rougher looking stuff, but that frame is, ahem, not exactly pretty.

looks wide enough to house a cb500/4!

wouldnt mind the astralights for a build thoguh!

Offline ivanhoew

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2016, 01:36:47 am »
exactly . i was thinking maybe one day another 500 twin like my turbo , but na with big bellmouths an megas in a 60s cafe style .
just do it .

Offline simon#42

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2016, 01:56:14 am »
they were not pretty when they were new and this one has not exactly been loved !

Offline ivanhoew

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2016, 06:22:44 am »
did they handle ? i really don't even know whats forks etc are on it lol.
just do it .

Offline simon#42

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2016, 06:40:55 am »
the one i rode handled very well

Offline ivanhoew

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2016, 12:55:48 pm »
was it the same ugly duckling simon ?
just do it .

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2016, 02:54:29 pm »
well, when the fairing is on and covers those angled joints is not that bad....

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C774478


Offline simon#42

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2016, 04:16:21 pm »
was it the same ugly duckling simon ?

not sure , it was a single cylinder rotax but looked  better than the one in yossefs link . i knew them quite well and borrowed a bike from them after i had crashed my own bike
the idea was to get a few championship points , which i did . i cant remember the details but i remember it was much better than i thought it would be .

Offline ivanhoew

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2016, 01:30:40 am »
well, when the fairing is on and covers those angled joints is not that bad....

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C774478





the seat off this went on the project 17 bike ...





with a bit of a trim ....









just do it .

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2016, 11:00:38 am »
that's one fine looking turbo CB500T Sir!
how much hp it puts down?

Offline ivanhoew

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2016, 12:34:30 am »
135 Tg . at 9500 rpm ,and about 75 to 80 lbs/ft i think it was , at 7800. weighs 170 kg with a tank of fuel ,.there's a graph on my 400/4 turbo thread i think . its a cagiva mito frame .
just do it .

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2016, 03:40:48 am »
wow! i know the water cooled twin is robust, was involved in a tear down of a motor with 100,000 km for a mag and it was like new inside... but 135 hp... how reliable is it? my compliments in any case :)
 

Offline ivanhoew

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Re: sohc5 up and running
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2016, 01:06:49 pm »
its been fine since 2002 , i have been off the rd with it since 2014 , but up till then fine no probs .
just do it .