Topic: RE: Tytronic Electric ignition $75 from China

[Jore]

I was exaggerating a bit, forgot to mention that my kickstart lever is not the original unit, since the splines in the original where pretty mangled so I headed down to the bike salvage yard and got another lever with the spline count, although a bit shorter, still I feel the bike's easier to start now, I just have to figure out what's the deal with #1 not firing in idle, I'll swap all the jets and emulsion tubes from 1 to 4 and see if it's carb related or what.

[Terry in Australia]

I'm guessing that you've got a plugged pilot jet or circuit in that carb mate, you'll need some carb cleaner and an air compressor to do it properly, but once cleared, it should purr like a kitten with that new ignition!  

[rotortiller]

Just an update. Pulled the bike out for a ride last week and the Tytronic unit is still working fine after  several thousand klicks. Started up easily after winter storage.

rt

[rotortiller]

Another year later and and the inexpensive Tytronics unit is still working great. Lots of heat cycles and several thousand more miles driven last year. I think I will order another for my brother's SOHC at this point.

[Terry in Australia]

Nice! I thought about buying one but all my 30(+) year old Marteks and Dyna's all still work fine, so I don't think I'll ever need to buy another one?

[PeWe]

My bikes have points (+HM module) so they do not need either
Good to know for others in search for a new ignition system.

I could not resist to have a look since the old link is not working
Today not much cheaper than Dyna-S shipped from USA
https://www.ebay.com/itm/112375970916?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dynatek-Dyna-S-CDI-ECU-Ignition-Honda-500-550-750-CB750-CB550-DS1-2-4-Cyclinder/360531363039?epid=171216577&hash=item53f15804df:g:PEkAAOxylh1SH5Sf

[dave500]

dynas seem to have trouble?

[Terry in Australia]

dynas seem to have trouble?

I've never had a bad one Dave, but I'm told that for awhile a few years ago some duds were leaving the factory. I've only ever had excellent service from Dyna, I had a good Dyna S for Suzuki GS1000 but no rotor, so I emailed Dyna in the US and they were happy to send me out a rotor for a CB750 so I could install the dyna in my last K1 bitsa that I traded for my RC51. Some folks here said that Dyna gave them a hard time, but they were really nice with me. The well used Dyna III that I bought from a member here in 2017 is at least 30 years old, and still works fine in my K2.

[dave500]

yeah Terry electronics can be fickle?but also i guess also a lot of wrong/poor/#$%* house dumb installations?some #$%*s cant even wire up a brake light?they get it wrong and fry the unit?

[brewsky]

some #$%*s cant even wire up a brake light?

Guilty of that once!
Trying to figure out how a brake light can come on when the brake light switch OPENS!

[Terry in Australia]

yeah Terry electronics can be fickle?but also i guess also a lot of wrong/poor/#$%* house dumb installations?some #$%*s cant even wire up a brake light?they get it wrong and fry the unit?

Yeah mate, I destroyed a pickup on a Martek a few years ago by connecting power to one of the signal wires, and I reckon that's what's probably happened to a few others too. Points are OK though, especially for stock bikes, so I can understand the resistance to change, even though you won't find any engine from a whipper snipper to a superbike with points nowadays.

[PeWe]

The isuue with points is to set them up correctly which take time. Both points must have same dwell to make engine to run even.

Adjusting a point affect the ignition, less gap advance it so the plate and/or 2:3 point has to be moved which affect the gap again. Advancer marks match when it is in its most counterclockwise position of its play.
Whith patience, timing light and dwell meter it will work fine.

The advantage of electronic ignition is that the plate can be moved sideways in its play without affecting the ignition as points do.

So it's understandable that people gives up and use Dyna electronic or similar. If I should change I should go for Dyna 2000 which skips the mechanical advancer, rev limiter included.

I like the points, it has been a challenge to get it right. I have it on both my bikes, K2 stock and ny modified K6.

One thing is to not let it advance early as it will with not cut springs and advancer not in correct end if its play.
Engine will run as too lean before 3000 rpm on 5:th gear, especially before 2000 at take offs. Richen up air/ fuel screws will fix that but idle will smell rich. I'm sure people tries to fix this by synching carbs.... I have tested a lot with my K6.

Both my bikes can run even on 5:th gear on 2000 rpm and slowly twist the throttle up to full without any hesitations.
My K2 has bench synched K6 carbs with stock filter.

 My K6 has Mikuni TMR32 with pods. I have fiddled with the synch with Morgan carbtune which I most likely did not really needed to do.

An open loud exhaust system make this more visible. More backpressure is more forgiving as I have seen.

[dave500]

I can trickle my 550 down to 2000 in top gear and pull away easy.

[rotortiller]

These bikes are high maintenance compared to modern bikes. Short intervals between valve and cam chain adjustments, oil changes, etc come to mind. We have today bikes that go 20,000k + between valve adjustments, have automatic cam tension, maintenance free ignition systems, solid state reg/rectifier units, sealed batteries etc. Bringing an old tank closer to today's norm with minimal outlay does not seem like a bad thing to me especially when it may be returned to stock  for collector value. The cost of the $100 upgrade ignition is quickly offset by points/condenser costs,  replacement time. and points procurement issues related to the ideal geometric parts. Some old #$%*s recommend shimming points plates to help with chasing timing results. Guys who have several SOHCs will likely appreciate any time savers while those who need to tinker with points may not. Like several people have stated, when installing something more modern that can be messed up is beyond the scope ,  maybe that type of person should stick to points. Having a well priced solid state ignition pick up design with the correct dwell while not absolutely necessary is a wise design choice. I have to laugh at the pro-points guy running low resistance coils,  a Rick's regulator, lithium pack, o-ring chain, pod filters bad mouth any technically advanced ignition system LOL. Pick ur poison wisely when something wears out, hopefully that choice adds reliability, or  for some at least play value.

[Terry in Australia]

The isuue with points is to set them up correctly which take time. Both points must have same dwell to make engine to run even.

Adjusting a point affect the ignition, less gap advance it so the plate and/or 2:3 point has to be moved which affect the gap again. Advancer marks match when it is in its most counterclockwise position of its play.
Whith patience, timing light and dwell meter it will work fine.

The advantage of electronic ignition is that the plate can be moved sideways in its play without affecting the ignition as points do.

So it's understandable that people gives up and use Dyna electronic or similar. If I should change I should go for Dyna 2000 which skips the mechanical advancer, rev limiter included.

I like the points, it has been a challenge to get it right. I have it on both my bikes, K2 stock and ny modified K6.

One thing is to not let it advance early as it will with not cut springs and advancer not in correct end if its play.
Engine will run as too lean before 3000 rpm on 5:th gear, especially before 2000 at take offs. Richen up air/ fuel screws will fix that but idle will smell rich. I'm sure people tries to fix this by synching carbs.... I have tested a lot with my K6.

Both my bikes can run even on 5:th gear on 2000 rpm and slowly twist the throttle up to full without any hesitations.
My K2 has bench synched K6 carbs with stock filter.

 My K6 has Mikuni TMR32 with pods. I have fiddled with the synch with Morgan carbtune which I most likely did not really needed to do.

An open loud exhaust system make this more visible. More backpressure is more forgiving as I have seen.

Yep, if you installed the Dyna 2000 you'd never even look at a set of points again Per, I installed one on a customers stock K1 (one owner low mileage US import) and the difference (especially throttle response) before and afterwards was like night and day. I bought a Dyna 2000i for my Harley Sportster, but never got around to installing it, not that I need to, the 25 year old OEM electronic ignition has never missed a beat anyway.

[PeWe]

Terry, the old ignition was probably not correctly set

The "problem" with points is the pita setup getting it to match the marks and advance correctly. BOTH 1:4 AND 2:3. Good to know the real TDC, checked with piston stop, or when head is off. Compared with advancer - case mark.

Let's see if I can avoid tearing the engine apart when ignition is OK. I see no reason today, cam is a good one...

[Terry in Australia]

Terry, the old ignition was probably not correctly set

The "problem" with points is the pita setup getting it to match the marks and advance correctly. BOTH 1:4 AND 2:3. Good to know the real TDC, checked with piston stop, or when head is off. Compared with advancer - case mark.

Let's see if I can avoid tearing the engine apart when ignition is OK. I see no reason today, cam is a good one...

No mate, I'd installed a new genuine Honda points plate and set the ignition timing correctly, but the owner decided that he wanted to buy the Dyna so I pulled the points plate back out. Swapping the points ignition for a better electronic unit is no big deal, probably an hours work in total for an EI noob, and once done, you'll never have to touch it again.

The ignition cover on my Sportster is riveted in place from the factory, that's how confident they are that their electronic ignitions won't fail. I'm on several Sportster sites, and I don't remember seeing any threads on ignition problems, unlike this site, where there are many ignition threads like this one.

[HondaMan]

dynas seem to have trouble?

The well used Dyna III that I bought from a member here in 2017 is at least 30 years old, and still works fine in my K2.

Wow, you still have a working Dyna III? Neither one of mine lasted a year, back during the 1990s when I could still get one. They are not as hard on the alternators as the Dyna S units, as they made for less duration (about 160 degrees) of ON time.

[dave500]

electronic is the only way,points sucks arse,youll never truly match the 1/4  2/3 perfectly,they worked ok in the day but now electronic is so much more reliable,billions of cars cant be wrong?cars stopped roadside breakdown are more likely crank angle sensor or some other useless smog error/computer #$%*!

[Terry in Australia]

dynas seem to have trouble?

The well used Dyna III that I bought from a member here in 2017 is at least 30 years old, and still works fine in my K2.

Wow, you still have a working Dyna III? Neither one of mine lasted a year, back during the 1990s when I could still get one. They are not as hard on the alternators as the Dyna S units, as they made for less duration (about 160 degrees) of ON time.

Ha ha, the ignition unit in my K2 is the used one you sent me 10 years or so Mark! I used your ignition plate and rotor, and another members "black box" as your timing plate and rotor looked a bit cleaner than his. I might keep the original points in my "Swamp Rat" build, but might buy one of your ignition amplifiers, just to give it a little extra pop? Cheers, Terry.

[PeWe]

Dyna 2000 does not use the old and probably bad Honda spring advancer.

Setting points up static only will by 100% end up in wrong setting.  Check F vs case mark with strobe light at idle AND ensure full advance at around 2500-2800 rpm will make it to run rather well.
My idle means 1200 rpm, K6 a little bit more, 1200-1400 rpm.

One thing is missing here. Real TDC that must match the advancer.
I have seen on 2 cranks and 2 advancers that they had a huge play, 3-4 crank degrees that affect the low rpm behaviour as I have seen on my K6. If setting it at max clockwise, the ignition will be advanced by 3-4 degrees despite perfect line up with the marks. It match real TDC at max counterclockwise position before tighten the small center nut.

Sloppy springs will advance too early. 
My K6 advancer had real sloppy springs with both arms free movement a few degrees before springs affected them at all. That time Pamco electronic ignition that ran as sh1t due to the advancer springs allowing way too early advance.
Fixed them and much better.

I tested later Dyna-S with 3 ohm coils
Drained battery really quick. Changed to 5 ohm coils and later points back on bike with HM module. Dyna S did not increase the power of the engine, not at all compared to points correctly set.

Dyna 2000 however is the better choice since you avoid the mechanical advancer, you can choose the advance curve the engine needs. Higher compression slower advance curve, etc. This is here the engine can run better avoid pinging etc.

Maybe my K6 will get another power curve on a dyno with Dyna 2000 with 3 ohm coils that it must have according to Dyna homepage, 5 ohm coils not mentioned.
I wonder how the charging system will work then with headlight on? I do not want same result as I got with Dyna S and 3 ohm coils. 5 ohm coils made a huge difference not draining battery without changing anything else that time.

I do not say that points is better, just need more work to get it running as it can. Electronic is shown to be maintenance free once setup in a much easier way and hopefully no fried components as some has reported with Dyna S. My Pamco fried really quick and easy....

If my bike should be a race bike, Dyna 2000 no doubts! Never too far away from the work shop

[rotortiller]

I am glad of any unit works with the stock coils having the same (dwell) as the stock setup regarding similar electrical drain.  My advancer fits the crank tightly matching TDC (DTI) and any slight manufacturing variance between engines would make little difference to performance. Even if I gained or lost 5% power,  I'd never notice it on such an under powered engine design. All ignition systems will suffer when an error is large enough. Now if you put a #$%*ed up sloppy advancer on a crank you reap what you sew points or not.  The average guy will not degree wheel or DTI his timing, and just wants a cool looking smooth running low maintenance retro bike.  Compared to accurately set points points the seat pulll is the same, but it may well start better cold and require no routine maintenance. You  will never get points bounce should you build a high reving structure if points have been replaced with electronic pickups. Guys used to double up on springs decades ago before  inexpensive easy solutions were widely accessible.  Gotta also love China's efficient trade and lack of the skimming middle men too! We are indeed very fortunate today to have so many solutions.

points sucks arse

Glad mine has no "suck arse" and made for a smelly affair. LOL      Is "sucking arse" better or worse than "sucking eggs"?

For any antique points slaved/activating system we are  still talking slightly better than Briggs technology mated to a  "Radio Shack Tandy kit" .
A person can go part way/bandaid or further. The automotive industry evolved from points to, to points activated transistor firing then finally magnetic or Hall sensor firing. Where in history do you want you tech to be? Having a mapped timing curve plays well with electronic fuel injection and modern high reving engine design, however we ain't talking modern here so the theory of diminishing returns holds firm.

[Scott S]

What's the difference between these two models? Anyone know? The first auction says in the description "we have better choice for your bike,http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tytronic-CB500-550-750F-electronic-ignition-UPGRADE-/112375970916?ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT " and has the link to the second unit.

 I'm going to send them a message, but does anyone know of or see an obvious difference?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tytronic-electronic-ignition-cb550f/112102319944

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tytronic-CB500-550-750F-electronic-ignition-UPGRADE-/112375970916?ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

[Tracksnblades1]

I have to  laugh at this. Here we have but another ignition system choice and all I see is a bunch of NSers come out of the wood work. Looks well enough made to me. I'm sure if you routed the wires carefully away from the window you could see the timing marks. Who knows maybe you could flip the pickups around if it bothered you. Easier than mounting and hiding a big HM ignition box under the seat somewhere (which I happen to have well hidden BTW)   You haven't tried it, you don't know, so basically that opinion is worthless.

rt

Do you feel lucky?

"I'll be your Huckleberry ".

[rotortiller]

Since October 2017 the inexpensive Asian Tytronics unit is still working great. Lots of heat cycles and thousands more miles driven since last report a year ago. I will post as promised an update every year including if or when it fails. One more year of operation and it will equal the lifespan of my failed points driven transistor box. Fingers crossed.