Topic: My Petcock is not a well behaved Pet.

[JWilde]

What are the chances that, aside from the pool of fuel (not a lot) when this happened, that it got into the crankcase? Are the chances high or low?

There is always that risk.
Moreso if you were losing half a gallon overnight like me!

Inspect.determine.repair

Wasnt hardly that much. more like a 1/4 cup if that.

[JWilde]

What are the chances that, aside from the pool of fuel (not a lot) when this happened, that it got into the crankcase? Are the chances high or low?

Depends on where it leaked from. That's why it's good to try and find out. If it was from the carbs, the overflow should have made it so it leaked from the bottom of the carbs and not gotten into the crank case. If it leaked out the carb mouth then the overflow is clogged and it's possible it got into the crankcase too. You can check oil level and smell it but if it's not a lot then you won't be able to tell.

Obviously if it leaked from the petcock it would just run onto the engine and find its way to the floor.

Because it happened after the bike was sitting for a number of days, I'm thinking that you have a constant but slow leak out the overflow tube. Slow enough where it evaporates before it forms a puddle. After a while it would run the bowl dry and when you turn the fuel on again the float sticks down (as is the case often with dry float bowls) and fuel runs out.

Based on my best recollection it leaked from the BOTTOM of the carbs (I remember it leaking over the top of the alternator cover just below the carbs).  So youre saying if it leaked from the area where I saw (which later dripped down to the floor) then it DIDNT get in the crankcase?

[harisuluv]

If you're going to say I'm off base, then please show me what I'm off base about.  Otherwise it's just ad hominem.

Please show me what I was wrong about.  In the meantime I have asked you:

1.  Show me a CB350F/400F kit that uses rubber tips, which you have not done.
2.  You CONCEDED that the cause of YOUR OWN BIKE which you gave an anecdote about, was DUE TO "tips that had worn and leaked." 
3.  You probably didn't even realize that JWilde's bike doesn't have rubber tips, otherwise why would you bring it up?
4.  I asked you a very simple question:  "How did you fix your issue on YOUR bike due to worn tips?"  You chose to dodge this questiion because: if you fixed your problem by replacing them with new metal tipped float valves then why didn't you suggest that to JWilde instead of going on about ethanol?  (Keep in mind JWilde's bike DOES NOT have rubber tipped float valves!
5.  Your 1100F is a red herring.  No one has been talking about it but you, and admittedly by YOU, it doesn't leak from the overflow valves anyway!
6.  You stand by avoiding ethanol.  Who cares, no one said that they prefer it, or recommend it, the only thing being discussed is JWilde's problem AS A DIRECT CAUSE OF ETHANOL.
7.  Your CB550 fire is irrelevant.

Please again, address what I was wrong about.  Instead of ad hominem attacks, please set me straight.

[JWilde]

If you're going to say I'm off base, then please show me what I'm off base about.  Otherwise it's just ad hominem.

Please show me what I was wrong about.  In the meantime I have asked you:

1.  Show me a CB350F/400F kit that uses rubber tips, which you have not done.
2.  You CONCEDED that the cause of YOUR OWN BIKE which you gave an anecdote about, was DUE TO "tips that had worn and leaked." 
3.  You probably didn't even realize that JWilde's bike doesn't have rubber tips, otherwise why would you bring it up?
4.  I asked you a very simple question:  "How did you fix your issue on YOUR bike due to worn tips?"  You chose to dodge this questiion because: if you fixed your problem by replacing them with new metal tipped float valves then why didn't you suggest that to JWilde instead of going on about ethanol?  (Keep in mind JWilde's bike DOES NOT have rubber tipped float valves!
5.  Your 1100F is a red herring.  No one has been talking about it but you, and admittedly by YOU, it doesn't leak from the overflow valves anyway!
6.  You stand by avoiding ethanol.  Who cares, no one said that they prefer it, or recommend it, the only thing being discussed is JWilde's problem AS A DIRECT CAUSE OF ETHANOL.
7.  Your CB550 fire is irrelevant.

Please again, address what I was wrong about.  Instead of ad hominem attacks, please set me straight.

Aftermarket parts may have been used in my carb rebuild. I understand there may be a possibility that rubber tips may have been used.

[harisuluv]

Look JWilde, my only interest is in preventing the spread of misinformation.  If you want to try non ethanol fuel and let it sit for 3 days with the petcock on--then please do it and report back to us.

[JWilde]

Look JWilde, my only interest is in preventing the spread of misinformation.  If you want to try non ethanol fuel and let it sit for 3 days then please do it and report back to us.

Im trying Star Tron.

[flybox1]

I know of no 350F rubber tipped float valves.  Not OEM.  Not aftermarket.  None.
If there were, I would have found and used them.

[harisuluv]

I know of no 350F rubber tipped float valves.  Not OEM.  Not aftermarket.  None.
If there were, I would have found and used them.

Yes.  Only likely explanation would be using the wrong part.  Which would definitely be suspect as it's not the intended bike.  This scenario is doubtful though.

[BomberMann650]

What are the chances that, aside from the pool of fuel (not a lot) when this happened, that it got into the crankcase? Are the chances high or low?

Depends on where it leaked from. That's why it's good to try and find out. If it was from the carbs, the overflow should have made it so it leaked from the bottom of the carbs and not gotten into the crank case. If it leaked out the carb mouth then the overflow is clogged and it's possible it got into the crankcase too. You can check oil level and smell it but if it's not a lot then you won't be able to tell.

Obviously if it leaked from the petcock it would just run onto the engine and find its way to the floor.

Because it happened after the bike was sitting for a number of days, I'm thinking that you have a constant but slow leak out the overflow tube. Slow enough where it evaporates before it forms a puddle. After a while it would run the bowl dry and when you turn the fuel on again the float sticks down (as is the case often with dry float bowls) and fuel runs out.

Based on my best recollection it leaked from the BOTTOM of the carbs (I remember it leaking over the top of the alternator cover just below the carbs).  So youre saying if it leaked from the area where I saw (which later dripped down to the floor) then it DIDNT get in the crankcase?

For future reference.  The cover on top of the lower case is a starter motor cover.
There are two rubber seals in that area.  One gaskets the cover itself, and there is an o-ring where the starter gear slides into the case.

Likelihood of gas getting into case from spilling onto that - zero.

Jwilde, you may want to read the cb350f manual as a bedtime story to your new baby.  Mazeltov btw

[DaveBarbier]

What are the chances that, aside from the pool of fuel (not a lot) when this happened, that it got into the crankcase? Are the chances high or low?

Depends on where it leaked from. That's why it's good to try and find out. If it was from the carbs, the overflow should have made it so it leaked from the bottom of the carbs and not gotten into the crank case. If it leaked out the carb mouth then the overflow is clogged and it's possible it got into the crankcase too. You can check oil level and smell it but if it's not a lot then you won't be able to tell.

Obviously if it leaked from the petcock it would just run onto the engine and find its way to the floor.

Because it happened after the bike was sitting for a number of days, I'm thinking that you have a constant but slow leak out the overflow tube. Slow enough where it evaporates before it forms a puddle. After a while it would run the bowl dry and when you turn the fuel on again the float sticks down (as is the case often with dry float bowls) and fuel runs out.

Based on my best recollection it leaked from the BOTTOM of the carbs (I remember it leaking over the top of the alternator cover just below the carbs).  So youre saying if it leaked from the area where I saw (which later dripped down to the floor) then it DIDNT get in the crankcase?

I can't 100% say for sure, but if it was me and I thought it was leaking out of the bottom of the carbs (out the overflow tubes) then I wouldn't even bother worrying about fuel in the crankcase. I would try to recreate the issue and then diagnose and fix it. If I couldn't recreate it, I'd go ride and whistle at girls while they ignore me.

You can use a stabilizer, but if you ride regularly and are refilling then it's not helping...or hurting. If it's going to sit for a while, definitely use the stabilizer.

Jag's a good guy, but he's incorrect about trying to remedy your leak with stabilizer and higher octane fuel. And he's also incorrect about higher octane fuel being better. It's either the same or worse as some people say, since higher octane fuel resists preignition more, in a motor that's not designed for it it can create more carbon build up. I don't know if I agree with that.

Carry on!

[DaveBarbier]

For future reference.  The cover on top of the lower case is a starter motor cover.
There are two rubber seals in that area.  One gaskets the cover itself, and there is an o-ring where the starter gear slides into the case.

Likelihood of gas getting into case from spilling onto that - zero.

I might have been the one to bring up fuel in the crankcase first. But let it be known that I meant it could have gotten in by way of the intake (since we're not sure where the leak came from), not from being poured on top of the motor.

[jaguar]

If you're going to say I'm off base, then please show me what I'm off base about.  Otherwise it's just ad hominem.

Please show me what I was wrong about.  In the meantime I have asked you:

1.  Show me a CB350F/400F kit that uses rubber tips, which you have not done.
2.  You CONCEDED that the cause of YOUR OWN BIKE which you gave an anecdote about, was DUE TO "tips that had worn and leaked." 
3.  You probably didn't even realize that JWilde's bike doesn't have rubber tips, otherwise why would you bring it up?
4.  I asked you a very simple question:  "How did you fix your issue on YOUR bike due to worn tips?"  You chose to dodge this questiion because: if you fixed your problem by replacing them with new metal tipped float valves then why didn't you suggest that to JWilde instead of going on about ethanol?  (Keep in mind JWilde's bike DOES NOT have rubber tipped float valves!
5.  Your 1100F is a red herring.  No one has been talking about it but you, and admittedly by YOU, it doesn't leak from the overflow valves anyway!
6.  You stand by avoiding ethanol.  Who cares, no one said that they prefer it, or recommend it, the only thing being discussed is JWilde's problem AS A DIRECT CAUSE OF ETHANOL.
7.  Your CB550 fire is irrelevant.

Please again, address what I was wrong about.  Instead of ad hominem attacks, please set me straight.

And here I was thinking the OP was a clown, guess it's a circus now!
You really are acting a fool.

What is your hang up in rubber tips?  I never ment to use them as the only failure point.

The chopper burning story was just to not make light of a fuel leak, I think we covered that already....never talked about the needles as it did not matter.
Never spoke about the needles in any way with my 1100f issue either, so I don't see what exemption you are taking to it.

Again you are harping on this tip thing.  I didn't bring it up,as the end all be all carb issue. I said aftermarket carb kits are junk.  You then agreed.
It was you that said he didn't have to worry about ethnol because of the metal tips.  I think that is BS.  Plenty of other issues from the fuel.  Also many other rubber bits to leak.

Again you are just repeating the same craziness.

You really are missing the whole point here.

The OP claimed he had a random leak.

Some assumed it was a petcock left on that was exposing a weak seat.

I have, and still do feel that ethanol fuel could cause the issue that he is having.
Could it be something else?  Sure can.
Maybe worn needles.
Maybe the owner is an idiot/liar and left the fuel on.
Maybe the bowl over flow has a small crack.
Maybe a garage mate is messing with him.
Maybe the floats are set wrong.
Maybe floats aren't floating.
Maybe some junk is hanging up the needle.

Maybe a lot of things.

If you are going to be admit you are correct then state your case and move on.
But if all you are going to do is pick a part things that were only said in your head, then see a Dr.

At the end of the day this is the web.
Nothing gets done here.
No bike has ever been fixed here.
Just a place to share real stories of our collective experience.
I did that, and provided the needed context.
You asked questions and were corrected of your misunderstandings.
No just beating a dead horse.

[jaguar]

I know of no 350F rubber tipped float valves.  Not OEM.  Not aftermarket.  None.
If there were, I would have found and used them.

Yes.  Only likely explanation would be using the wrong part.  Which would definitely be suspect as it's not the intended bike.  This scenario is doubtful though.

Why?
If you have followed this clown's posting it is probably fairly high on the list of what could be wrong.

And I am saying "something" could be wrong.  Either the incorrect part, or set wrong.

To be fair plenty of rubber tips work just fine in modern gas!

[jaguar]

What are the chances that, aside from the pool of fuel (not a lot) when this happened, that it got into the crankcase? Are the chances high or low?

Depends on where it leaked from. That's why it's good to try and find out. If it was from the carbs, the overflow should have made it so it leaked from the bottom of the carbs and not gotten into the crank case. If it leaked out the carb mouth then the overflow is clogged and it's possible it got into the crankcase too. You can check oil level and smell it but if it's not a lot then you won't be able to tell.

Obviously if it leaked from the petcock it would just run onto the engine and find its way to the floor.

Because it happened after the bike was sitting for a number of days, I'm thinking that you have a constant but slow leak out the overflow tube. Slow enough where it evaporates before it forms a puddle. After a while it would run the bowl dry and when you turn the fuel on again the float sticks down (as is the case often with dry float bowls) and fuel runs out.

Based on my best recollection it leaked from the BOTTOM of the carbs (I remember it leaking over the top of the alternator cover just below the carbs).  So youre saying if it leaked from the area where I saw (which later dripped down to the floor) then it DIDNT get in the crankcase?

I can't 100% say for sure, but if it was me and I thought it was leaking out of the bottom of the carbs (out the overflow tubes) then I wouldn't even bother worrying about fuel in the crankcase. I would try to recreate the issue and then diagnose and fix it. If I couldn't recreate it, I'd go ride and whistle at girls while they ignore me.

You can use a stabilizer, but if you ride regularly and are refilling then it's not helping...or hurting. If it's going to sit for a while, definitely use the stabilizer.

Jag's a good guy, but he's incorrect about trying to remedy your leak with stabilizer and higher octane fuel. And he's also incorrect about higher octane fuel being better. It's either the same or worse as some people say, since higher octane fuel resists preignition more, in a motor that's not designed for it it can create more carbon build up. I don't know if I agree with that.

Carry on!

I never claimed it would remedy things.  Broken parts would need to be changed.
I do maintain that ethanol can break down parts ans cause leaks.
Octane has been beaten to death, every one is in a different camp and unlikely to ever change,  I can live with that.

I will keep running 91/93 because it is the only local way to get ethanol free.
For me that is the more important bit then octane

[harisuluv]

Just backpedaling, moving the goal posts.  You can call me a "clown" or whatever  you want. 

Still waiting on you to answer any of those questions.  Still waiting on to show me what I was wrong about.  Still waiting for you to discount me on anything I've said carb related to back up your saying "With your comments I would really wonder why anyone would use you for thier carbs."

Please show me.

JWilde made a thread about his leaking carbs.  You then gave anecdotes about two of your bikes that had a similar problem which you "solved" with non ethanol fuel.  You then went on to explicitly tell him not to use ethanol fuel. 

You even go as far as to say "I say it was the fuel."

You're saying you didn't bring up the problem of fixing your 550 leak because you were trying to say it was fuel related?  That's funny, cause you left out the part where you FIXED the problem by replacing the float valves!

So when a float valve whether it be rubber OR metal--according to you the ethanol breaks it down and compromises.  So then how would non ethanol fuel "fix" that?  The components that were damaged by ethanol fuel WOULD STILL BE DAMAGED.  Simply changing fuel would not magically fix these supposed damaged components from ethanol.

Now you can say "I never claimed x" all you want.  We don't need a notarized letter of intent on your advice to JWilde.  When you offer your anecdotes on multiple bikes, and then tell JWilde to avoid ethanol fuel, it is pretty clear you are making a suggestion of switching fuel to remedy his problem.  You are also obviously offering the stories from your two bikes as testament to your suggestion.

[jaguar]

I honestly wonder if you have dealt with carbs or ethanol fuel.
Clearly you are bad at forums.


Never said changing fuel would fix broken parts.
Never said my stories replicated the OPs issues.

Keep swinging away.

[harisuluv]

Do you ever say anything of substance or do you just make tongue in cheek insults?

I have extensive proof that I have dealt with many carbs, and most if not all of them had ethanol fuel at some point I would imagine.  In my signature there's a link to a few carb rebuilds I have done. 

I have, and still do feel that ethanol fuel could cause the issue that he is having.

There are many things that "could" cause any issue.  You didn't offer up and still maintain this position because there was a .05% chance ethanol fuel is the cause.  You said this cause you believe it is likely the case.  You said this cause you feel there is a SIGNIFICANT possibility that ethanol is the cause.  You didn't say "could" to mean that it also "could" be fairies.  If you believe something is MORE likely to be the case, why would you suggest ethanol over something that was MORE LIKELY to be the case?

So please make your case for why it is likely that ethanol is to blame here.  If you want to just say you were offering up a "could be the case" well then we can just dismiss it cause it could have also been that he spilled gas on that spot or didn't remember.

[jaguar]

Wonder if the OP will ever fix the issue, or report back with credible info so we can finally settle this epic, but useless debate.

I whole heartily dissagree that ethanol is something that would have a limited effect.

I would suggest replacing the worn or damaged bits and avoiding ethanol.

Is your day job a corn farmer?
This is the web, not real life.
This is all in good fun at the end of the day?

Going to be at MidO?
First beer at the derby is on me!

[harisuluv]

So you just go into threads and provide unrelated anecdotes?  You weren't trying to make any suggestion with your anecdote right?  If that were the case you are just as likely to go into a thread about new tires and make the same suggestions.

You just go into threads and out of the blue extol the virtues of ethanol cause you aren't trying to say anything?

[DaveBarbier]

I never claimed it would remedy things.  Broken parts would need to be changed.

Sure seems like you offered it as a remedy.

I DID mention that my 1100F HATED ethanol fuel.
That bike did leak.  Not from the floats, but the cross over tube.
When I moved upstate I only ever ran Stewarts 93(no ethanol) and it stopped leaking.

And from this it sounds like you just switched fuels and you say it stopped leaking.

I do maintain that ethanol can break down parts ans cause leaks.

I haven't heard of it breaking down brass. I'll defer to Harrisuluv on that one.

Octane has been beaten to death, every one is in a different camp and unlikely to ever change,  I can live with that.

The facts are against them about higher is better.

I will keep running 91/93 because it is the only local way to get ethanol free.
For me that is the more important bit then octane

I've got no problem with this.

[harisuluv]

Wonder if the OP will ever fix the issue, or report back with credible info so we can finally settle this epic, but useless debate.

In order for that to be the case, he would have to replicate the same scenario as before.  Which going by what he said he didn't ride for DAYS.  If he got a fuel additive and poured it and then observed it not leaking for an hour that wouldn't "prove" anything regarding this debate.

[jaguar]

That startron has worked wonders for my bikes that sit.
Main thing that it seems to help with is the "separation", not the whole "eats rubber"

[harisuluv]

This is all in good fun at the end of the day?

Going to be at MidO?
First beer at the derby is on me!

That's a nice offer, I'm going to cease activity in this thread for now.

[jaguar]

But all the fun we have had.

No hard feelings here.

[millla03]

In response to the original question...

Sounds like a hung up float as others have suggested. Aftermarket float valves may contribute to this - something to look into when you get a chance. Until then, you might try just sitting on the bike to bring it upright before turning the petcock on. Should help float(s) from getting hung up and prevent spilled gas. Turning off the petcock is good practice, and will prevent gas leaking while the bike is sitting, assuming a hung up float is the culprit.

I put pump gas in the bike - it runs. High octane fuel will add horsepower, much like stickers and chrome.

Hope this helps!