Topic: Electrical Overhaul

[SD750F]

I have added a few comments from time to time on electricals, wiring, and the ignition system. Well I am taking the next step. I am currently redesigning the entire electrical system from head to tail. New wiring harness and a control head. Here is my outline:

New body electricals with: New battery cables. New solid state regulator and rectifier, A single main fuse using the new automotive style fuse (15A). New Solid State starter relay. And a Solid State ignition power relay remotely controlled from a new head control and the existing right hand controls.

New Head electricals with one small low profile water tight enclosure containing controls for: Solid State blinker flasher with programmable timing, load independant. Light sensor for controling an internal low beam headlight flasher that turns of at night and controls instrument backlights. Possible HID lamp driver. Coil pick-up line for future digital tachometer. Include watertight external connectors for right hand controls, left hand controls, main harness, headlight, and front turn/running lights. Resetable fuses for brake, signal lights, and control circuit. Will design a clamping circuit to prevent damage for under/over voltage.

This will include reducing the wire gauge size for controls. And increasing wire size for power and grounds. And a new harness for the tail lights and brake light. New starter cables will be included. The only existing sensors will be the rear brake, front brake, clutch safety in line with the neutral sensor, and oil pressure sender.

I will try to design with an universal concept so most 550/750 owners could use it.

I will provide pictures of the process as well as schematics and diagrams of the finished project. Is anyone interested in this idea? Let me know and provide feedback.

Taking out my HP calculator....

Scott

[mrbreeze]

So are you basically gutting out the stock wiring and components and starting from scratch? It sounds like a lot of work but will have many rewards in that it will be modernized and hopefully incorporate parts that are cheaper and easier to come by. I'm sure there will be a bunch of us here that are interested (myself included).The hand controls are the first things that come to mind for me. I'd like to see more bullet-proof switches that are easier to come by. Please post more on this subject.

[SD750F]

Yes, my plan is a completly new build. New harness from the side electricals to the head unit (can be mounted anywhere there is room). New harness from the head unit to the tail assembly. New harness from the head unit to the sensors (neutral, rear brake switch, and oil pressure). And I am going to re-wire my stock hand controls (re-build, refinish, and re-wire with smaller gauge so I can run inside the bars without voltage drops).

The head unit will have inputs for the basic hand controls. So they would be able to use any after market controls that will fit our 7/8 inch bars. Or others if the bar mounts are modified. The head unit is going to be a high quality printed circuit board that I am going to design.

Scott

[mrbreeze]

You're the man Scott!!!! This sounds good. I'm no electronic wizard but I know enough to make improvements. I have a few hand controls that I bought through ebay and most were junk. I am currently running the stock left control that came with my bike when I bought it in 2000. I have not had any problems there but the right side......different story. When I bought the bike,the start button was missing (common problem with these bikes). I lived in a small town in Wyoming at the time and had no computer so I had only a small bike shop and not much else to source parts. The guy I bought the bike from had a small bone yard with various jap bikes but no 750's. I got a right hand control off of an old 350 so I could get the start button fixed. It didn't fit so I ended up using that whole 350 control on my 750. The kill switch was bad on that plus no headlamp switch. I wired the headlight to run at all times (key on) and have no kill switch. I have another one that fits my bike and tore it down to remove the anodized finish and polish the bare aluminum. It looks killer but is a lot of work and I would rather put it back together with better electrical components.Sorry to ramble on but I think you know where I'm coming from. Can't wait to see what you come up with and maybe I can help you through some issue you might have with another part of the bike. Talk to ya later.

[SD750F]

A major problem with the switches in the hand control, especially the right one where there is high current going through both the start button as well as the kill switch. I am going to reduce the current load on these switches to increase their life expectancy. Also the left hand control has some current running through the switches, but not as much as the right. So the end effect is that every switch on a stock, or aftermarket hand control set-up, will have the current reduced by becoming "control" switches for the solid state relays in the head unit... I am also going to "re-build" my hand controls and will post what I come up with and how to do it.

Scott

[mrbreeze]

Good idea on the start button.....use it to trigger a remote mounted solenoid. I like it!! I think you will come up with some good stuff. It sounds like you have a good deal of electrical knowledge. That plus the ability to engineer and fab will come up with some great ideas.

[ic455]

Sounds great, Scott.  I plan to do a similar rewire on my K6 750, since the wiring is hacked to bits from front to back.  I've already replaced the primary fuse with an inline 15A automotive fuse holder (the original glass fuse holder terms were corroded and the PO had the wrong physical size fuse in it, so it would work sometimes and sometimes not) I plan to do the same for the other two fuses.  The idea of smaller wire for the controls is excellent, and will doubtless make it easier to run wiring through handlebars.  I'll probably keep a hold on starting mine to hear what you've discovered

[SD750F]

The work has begun... I took some components out of the left side, and removed my left hand control. I will take some pictures tomorrow and outline the game plan for both of these items. I already have some weird ideals for the hand controls... I think some of you will get a kick out of them. Until tomorrow.

Scott

[paxtonpony]

Interesting timing.  I'm currently trying to wire up some 05 GSXR controls to my harness.  They look nice.  Damn shame I can't figure out the Honda harness because it's been spliced and diced who knows how many times.  I actually have wires that change to different color wires 3 times in a 1 foot section.  Definitely feeling in over my head once I got to really looking at the harness with it's collection of unknown snipped wires.

[SteveD CB500F]

Good idea on the start button.....use it to trigger a remote mounted solenoid.

Isn't that exactly what Mr Honda did 30+ years ago!

Seriously though, take a look at Frank Coopers site for ideas. He did a similar thing on his 500 a few years back.

Frank Cooper

[bill440cars]

        Thank you  Breeze, for bringing Scott to our attention and Thank you Scott, for your expertise.

                                                               Later on, Bill

[SD750F]

Here are the old regulator and rectifier assemblies. One of the major items that will be updated in the new design. Both of these items will be replaced with modern technology in a combination unit. I will not spend my time re-designing this item, but will provide links to manufactures and provide wiring diagrams to replace. This way any individual out there can use part or any particular item of my overhaul in their own project.

[TomC]

Hi Scott
     Have you looked at Frank Copper's site that SteveD gave a link to in reply #9? His rectifier looked to be a good, cheap, and simple replacement for the Honda rectifier. His voltage regulator is more complicated and I have no idea what all the parts would cost. But I like his idea of taking the power for the field from between the alternator and the rectifier. Except for a small start up current coming through an LED.
     In his ignition controller Frank Copper has noticed some thing that most have overlooked. The coil needs an amount of time to saturate. This time can be expressed in degrees, distributor or crankshaft, only at one RPM. If this time is provided as a certain numbers of degrees there will be too much time a low RPM and too little time a High RPM. To little time reduces the spark. To much time wastes electricity, heats up components, and produces little additional spark. Giving the coil the correct time to saturate and not more should reduce the current draw at low RPM and improve the spark at high RPM.
            TomC

[SD750F]

My intention was not to have a big electronic design and construction for the normal person. Keep the electronic stuff to the one new control head that I will make available. I want to keep my electrical design thread focused on the wire harness and provide some guidance and information for anyone that was considering any changes to their electrical system. That way, anyone could use part, or all of my suggestions.

I plan to use an off the self technology to replace both the rectifier as well as the regulator on my bike just because I like the environmentally protected enclosure. The harness design can be used with either new, or existing rectifiers/regulators. And of course to follow the mantra stated above.

here is a picture of the integrated regulator/rectifier that I plan to use with my redesign.

[SD750F]

LEFT HAND CONTROL

Okay, since I am going to build a new control head with electronic sense and drives for all the lights, I wanted to re-build both the right and left hand controls. Today I will start with the left. This control has more internal switches than the right so I figures that I would start with the most complex of the two.

Here is a picture of the old existing Left Hand Control. Note that the Super Sport had anodized controls. Mine were sun bleached so the un-even anodization will have to be removed to provide the finish that I am looking for. Polished aluminum with some areas stain finish with a bead blast. Also see the heavy insert stamping just below the signal switch. Also note the cast markings for the Horn, Light (Hi & Lo), and the Turn Switches. Some of these are really shallow so my hand grinding to clean up the fit and shape will remove them. Is this a big deal. i don't think so. Besides the only one that I really want to keep is the Turn markings including the deep R | L markings. Because after I am done with the shaping and finishing I am going to re-paint these Black, Red, and Green.

Now that I have all the internal wires and switches removed I will go over my planned changes. The Horn button I am replacing with a lathe turned clear lexan piece that will be back-light with a small Red LED. The Light Hi and Lo switch I am replacing with a cast reproduction that I am making (will provide instructions how I did this in a later entry) that will be again clear acrylic. This switch will be back-light with Amber for Low, and Blue for High. The turn switch I would like to replace also, but after reviewing it's construction I decided to keep it black and drill two small pilot holes to mount a Red LED on the Left side of the switch slide, and a Green LED on the Right side. These will flash along with the signal blinkers when activated. Also I am going to modify the internal switch assembly to be a momentary switch. That way I can activate a signal, have a time out, or cancel with another activation to the right or left when one is active... What do you think?

And as I stated before, all of the wires located in this Hand Control will be reduced in size. There will be not current of the previous levels. So this can be done to reduce the whole wire bundle overall size. As it stands on paper now, with all the new indicator LED's, the conductor size, not including the Clutch switch will be 10 wires. No problem getting a cable with 10 18-22 AWG wires in a fairly small overall diameter. So that is what I am going to do.

Scott

[SD750F]

LEFT HAND CONTROL ENCLOSURE

Here are a couple pictures of the first stage of roughing in the Left Control aluminum enclosure. Note that I removed the deep marking just below the Turn control opening. Also cleaning up the contours and fitting of the two halves. Looks like I might be able to save the Hi/Lo as well as the Horn markings, but the Light might have to go. A lot of concave radii that make it hard to hand grind. But the right bits in the Dremel and taking my time I think will be the ticket. Emery paper and padded emery blocks seam to make fairly quick work of the aluminum and remove most of the black anodize. Will the taste of aluminum ever leave my mouth???

Scott

[mrbreeze]

Your plans sound interesting Scott.You are doing the fun part now. I started with the right control. Someone here said to use oven cleaner to break down the anodized surface so I did that. It took alot of work with the Dremel and hand sanding but I have it shining up pretty nicely. I still want to work it out some more to get it smoother. I'm glad I didn't put it back together now that you are doing your project because I am definitely going to want to go with the internal switches and wiring that you are going to be using.I also am planning on getting Euro bars now that my seat is cut down so that will also make it easier to run the wires.Will be in touch.

[chung]

I have seen quite a few of the Combo Reg/Rec unit partially fail. The Regulator fails leaving you to replace the Rectifier along with it. You should consider using separate units. If I recall, the cost difference was substantial.

[coolcat2002]

SD750,

Where did you go?  I'm am taking notes about where you're getting this stuff and how you're doing it.
The rat's nest ( I believe that's the term) for all those wires in the headlight is just ridiculuous. 
Please update us.

Your humble servant,

E

[SD750F]

I will return with this thread very soon. I have been busy with a business move at the beginning of the year and getting my frame and engine done for the remaining part of the project.

Scott

[Pinhead]

Instead of using that (expensive) r/r unit that you have pictured above (DOHC 750's & SOHC 650's?) try to incorporate something similar to the one that I made in my sig. It took almost no time to "engineer" as all I had to put together was the rectifier (very simple). It works extremely well, is a LOT cheaper than any other bike regulator/rectifier unit (cost me $15 in parts), and should last just as long (probably longer).

[jevfro]

I'm watching this thread anxiously...  It's a great idea and one I've been contemplating for a while myself.  Will you be printing (or etching i should say) your own boards for the control head?  If so please concider making a few extras if it is cost effective and I would gladly purchase one.

[LoopsAndLogic]

I too have been watching this thread. It's very interesting!! You my man, are taking on a big job and I give you big credit for it.

I too was going with the R\R combo, but would like to keep them separate.

Have you ever thought of going with controls from a GL500?? There pretty bullet proof!! If you can find them without any cracks in the housing. The PO's usually tighten the screws too much. I used them on my CB400F and they work great and look awesome!

Can't wait to see more

LL

[stresssolutions]

Any updates?  I had such high hopes for this...

[troppo]

Any progress yet scott?
Reading through this thread has been fascinating, and i really want to see the end results, maybe even find out how much you want for some parts..cheers
troppo

[SD750F]

More updates soon. I have had a very busy winter at work doing some new product designs and working on a medical product. Trying to finish up the engine right now with a minor breakdown to check the valve guides and then new head gaskets and a fresh coat of high temp ceramic paint (dark gray). I had a couple brackets made to my drawings that allow me to use a cheap engine block frame. Will provide update pictures soon...

Scott

[SD750F]

Oh, I night as well provide a picture of the new powder coated frame... I have decided to paint the bike all in monochromatic colors and bead blast parts.

Scott

[Gittfiddler]

has there been any progress lately or has this been taken some where else? very eager.

[Pinhead]

has there been any progress lately or has this been taken some where else? very eager.

Agreed.

[mrbreeze]

I ended up using Yami 650 controls from Mike's XS (even helped rope Seaweb into running them on the chrome bike!!). I still am anxious to see a good plan for doing up the stock ones.

[snipcod]

Aw no news on this?  I just got my bike and am dying for info on this.  I was planing on gutting the wiring and this was the best read so far. 

[steamnjn23]

interesting read.   anything further?

[wannabridin]

bump for this, any updates??  i have some ideas for a new harness, but i'd love to see your drawings, maybe i can just make one up on my own...  lets see your ideas!!!

[wannabridin]

bump??

[steamnjn23]

thread died.  please contact the undertakers.

[Cafe_Brat]

Hey Scott, any new advances on the project? I am redoing my harness and think that this would be a great alternative to the original schematics.   Also would your harness require resistors for any led lights?

[Clinto]

[Mace]

The ashes have been scattered!