Author Topic: Need some help trying to start bike with suspected frigged kill switch (Read 21427 times)

b1jackson · « **Reply #25 on:** July 02, 2016, 04:27:08 PM »

No voltage from the black wire feeding into the regulator

My battery to frame ground is good and clean. Where else should I check?.

scottly · « **Reply #26 on:** July 02, 2016, 06:06:43 PM »

That helps narrow it down to the key switch itself, or the connection of the black wire into the main harness, where all the other loads are fed from. You might want to check that the red supply wire still reads 12v with the key turned on. (A high resistance connection might allow enough current to light your LED taillight, but might allow the voltage to drop like a rock under the normal loads.)

b1jackson · « **Reply #27 on:** July 03, 2016, 02:29:52 AM »

Yes, will do. I already have the headlight opened up. The other possible factor in this since we are now digging into that is that it is not the original headlight. A couple of the POs had swapped around different buckets so perhaps there is a mangled up black wire in there causing some grief. I hope so!

Thanks again lads for the prompts, tips and support!

b1jackson · « **Reply #28 on:** July 03, 2016, 07:56:21 AM »

Ok, here is where things stand now. Followed Cal's suggestion and got into the headlight bucket.

- repaired a white wire going into the headlight. It was a bit ratty and the only one where I thought things looked rough.

- carefully and one by one, unplugged, cleaned with emery cloth, and put a dab of dielectric grease on every connection no matter the color. The only wire disconnected is a brown/blue one that I am pretty sure is just the original tail light feed. The male end was taped off.

- confirmed 12v at the ignition switch then started testing each connection having a black wire feed going in.

The only one that registered any voltage was the single black into the black wire spade connector. This look like it feeds into from the harness into the dash warning lights between the speedo and tach. This one only registered 0.05 volts.

Again, key was in on position with a fully charged battery.

scottly · « **Reply #29 on:** July 03, 2016, 11:38:04 AM »

With the switch plugged into the harness, check for 12v on the black wire on the switch side of the plug, and also on the harness side of the plug.

b1jackson · « **Reply #30 on:** July 03, 2016, 03:03:50 PM »

Ok. Back from the shop with an update!

Stripped off all the tape in the harness up to the junction point of the black wires. Things looked pretty good and I cleaned up one splice along the way. Here is a pic of the junction point where black power feeds connect. Tight and clean.

I then took a closer look at the fuse block with the volt meter (and not just the test light). You recall it was a bit melted and I removed the lower brass clips as I had some power going into them and shouldn't. I tested power (via the volt meter this time) and noticed the fuse blown. I removed it and tested voltage to each end of the brass clip. 12.5v on one and 2.5v or something like that on the other?

Then I thought I'd try and stick another fuse in a poof...burnt out in my finger tips.

Pretty sure both posts of the main fuse holder should read 12volts correct? Is this the short causing me grief?

Yes...I will order a new fuse block as I think it's finally been solved. Thoughts?

scottly · « **Reply #31 on:** July 03, 2016, 04:13:57 PM »

Was the ignition switch turned on when the new fuse blew? With no fuse installed, you should read 12v on one clip, and zero on the other. Please post a pic of the back side of the fuse block.

b1jackson · « **Reply #32 on:** July 03, 2016, 05:06:00 PM »

Here is the back side of the fuse block with the bottom two clips removed.

I think the key was turned to "on" when I went to put in the fuse but can't confirm that. It got a little hot in my finger tips! Based on my further tests below though, it may have been off.

No fuse in holder, key in off position

0.12v on left side of main fuse terminal and 12.5v on the right side

No fuse in holder, key in on position

0.0v on the left side of the main fuse terminal and 12.5v on the right side

Here is a closer up of the front of the fuse block

scottly · « **Reply #33 on:** July 03, 2016, 05:11:50 PM »

With the key off, insert a new fuse. Does it get hot or blow? If not, turn the key to on and see if it blows or gets hot. (This assumes any loose black wires aren't grounding out)

b1jackson · « **Reply #34 on:** July 03, 2016, 05:28:43 PM »

I'll pick up some more fuses tomorrow. I hope we are closing in on it!

scottly · « **Reply #35 on:** July 03, 2016, 05:43:27 PM »

Well, I don't know if we are closing in on it or not yet. Not sure how you had 12v at the switch with a blown fuse? Don't worry, we'll figure it out. In the meantime, return all the wiring to the original configuration. (If you had asked, I would have told you not to bother to unwrap the harness.

)

b1jackson · « **Reply #36 on:** July 03, 2016, 06:32:24 PM »

I'm ok with the re-wrap of the harness. The bike is getting a slight cosmetic upgrade as well as I go along and new shiny tape looks better than old faded crusty stuff.. Plus I can get an idea if any butchery happened underneath by the PO. Will check back in tomorrow.

scottly · « **Reply #37 on:** July 03, 2016, 06:41:41 PM »

Rather than buy new glass fuses, you might want to go ahead and switch out the whole fuse box? For testing purposes, you could get a single blade-fuse holder and wire it in place of the main fuse. The headlight and taillight won't work, but we're not concerned with them now.

b1jackson · « **Reply #38 on:** July 04, 2016, 01:48:52 AM »

Do you mean just solder in a single blade holder in to the back of the panel onto the two red terminals?

scottly · « **Reply #39 on:** July 04, 2016, 11:46:46 AM »

No, unplug the fuse box from the harness, mount spade lugs on the new fuse holder wires, and plug them into the harness plug at the two red wire locations.

b1jackson · « **Reply #40 on:** July 04, 2016, 02:29:58 PM »

Key turned off, put in fuse....all good.

Turned key on and poof...out it went.

I bought a cheap inline fuse so will do the bypass trick next.

b1jackson · « **Reply #41 on:** July 04, 2016, 04:06:11 PM »

Insert sad trombone sound here......

Disconnected fuse block and plugged in an inline fuse (20amp) between the two reds and pop!

So where now? Short somewhere between the headlight cluster and the fuse block?

b1jackson · « **Reply #42 on:** July 04, 2016, 04:52:22 PM »

No issues with unwrapping. I'm a visual learner and it helps me understand where all the pieces go. Harness has now been unwrapped from the steering stem, around the coils and all the way under the fuel tank to the air box. No issues there. Re-wrapped with shiny new tape. Same with the 4 inches or so that easily reachable going out of the harness into the fuse block.

The only spots not yet checked are where it drops in between the air box and the battery and the connections going into the little plastic triangular box beside the horn.

scottly · « **Reply #43 on:** July 04, 2016, 04:59:41 PM »

The problem isn't inside the harness wrapping. If the fuse blows only when the key is turned on, it means the short is after the switch. The black wire(s) are somehow connected to ground or a very low resistance load, such as the starter motor. When you were messing with the solenoid, did you happen to connect a wire to the post on the starter side?

b1jackson · « **Reply #44 on:** July 04, 2016, 05:38:23 PM »

No I didn't but the starter will be worth a closer look. Recall the PO said that he tried to start it without a ground hooked up and he thought he toasted the solenoid? Maybe there is a starter connection that took a jolt of juice and shorted out.

b1jackson · « **Reply #45 on:** July 04, 2016, 06:28:52 PM »

Quote from: b1jackson on July 03, 2016, 05:06:00 PM

No fuse in holder, key in off position

0.12v on left side of main fuse terminal and 12.5v on the right side

No fuse in holder, key in on position

0.0v on the left side of the main fuse terminal and 12.5v on the right side

I wonder after my recent tests if this earlier test when I was thinking it was fuse block sheds any light or narrow it down? Since I've taken fuse block out now and tested with an inline and it popped, could this mean a feed of 0.12 v into the line somewhere?

scottly · « **Reply #46 on:** July 04, 2016, 06:56:27 PM »

Your symptoms have changed since you first started. You now have a short circuit to ground on the common harness black wire, fed from the key switch. To locate the short without spending a small fortune on fuses, wire a light, like a tail light, with spades and replace the inline fuse with it. It will limit the current to a safe level, and allow you to unplug loads and view the effect: with a dead short, the bulb will be as bright as when directly across the battery terminals. With a normal, non-fuse blowing load, it will be dimmer. You might want to start by disconnecting the black wire between the harness and the kill/start switch.

b1jackson · « **Reply #47 on:** July 05, 2016, 02:42:55 PM »

Well would you look at this!

Being the newbie that I am, I thought I was into all the connections when I was in the headlight bucket and I cleaned and snugged every connection. Not realizing the black power junction is right here!

Unplugged the black wire to kill and the horn and had dash lights, signals. Plugged the horn back in and had beep beep.

Then plugged in the black kill switch wire back in and pop goes the fuse.

How can I bypass the kill and still use the starter, have lights, etc?

BomberMann650 · « **Reply #48 on:** July 05, 2016, 03:48:49 PM »

Kills work by grounding out the electrics right? Or do these ones complete a circuit? Can't remember off the top of my head.

Seems to me unplugging the kill bypassed the problem. So your problem lies somewhere between that connection and wherever the other end of that wire goes!

b1jackson · « **Reply #49 on:** July 05, 2016, 04:10:32 PM »

There is also this issue with the button. It still goes in and out it the button is busted.

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Author Topic: Need some help trying to start bike with suspected frigged kill switch (Read 21427 times)