Author Topic: Need some help trying to start bike with suspected frigged kill switch (Read 20986 times)

b1jackson · « **Reply #75 on:** July 12, 2016, 03:12:34 PM »

Ok. Still confused. Maybe it's staring at wires that's getting to me or the fact I've been on and off with this issue, waiting parts, etc.

New switch from Vintage arrived and it's not quite a plug and play as it has an on/off switch which the original doesn't and therefore some wire colors are different. When I pulled it apart, it looks like a brown/white and black/red wire go into this part of the switch.

So the wire colors from the new switch are:

yellow/red - (also a yellow/red wire in the bike harness)
green/red
black/white
black/red - (-also a black/red in the bike harness
green/white
black

What goes where? How to ignore or bypass the on/off switch?

calj737 · « **Reply #76 on:** July 12, 2016, 03:21:44 PM »

Quote from: b1jackson on July 12, 2016, 03:12:34 PM

So the wire colors from the new switch are:

yellow/red - connects to Electric START button
green/red - Probably your Clutch Safety switch, should be a Gr/R in your stock harness
black/white - RUN switch to coils
black/red - If I'm not mistaken, this is the HL power
green/white - I've got no clue. Maybe its the disconnect while electric start is active?
black - Power from the harness, goes to the RUN switch

b1jackson · « **Reply #77 on:** July 12, 2016, 04:02:51 PM »

Nope...that just popped the fuse.

The push start button part on the new switch has a yellow/red and green/red coming out of it.

scottly · « **Reply #78 on:** July 12, 2016, 06:43:10 PM »

You are integrating an older style switch into a newer harness. Your original switch combined the headlight feed with the start button, while the new old style switch has separate switches for the light and starter. Also, the old style starter button provides ground to one side of the solenoid coil, while the new style provides 12V.
Starter button:
Connect the yellow/red from the switch to the yellow/red on the harness.
Connect the green/red wire to a solid black harness wire.
With no other switch wires connected, key on, in neutral (neutral light on) and or with the clutch pulled in, pressing the button should spin the starter.

Run/kill switch:
The black/white wire from the switch should connect to the harness black/white: no change.

Headlight On switch:
There should be a brown white wire on the new switch, but that must be the green/white? Verify continuity between that wire and the black switch wire when on, and no continuity when switched off. If true, connect the harness black/red wire to it.

b1jackson · « **Reply #79 on:** July 13, 2016, 02:37:29 AM »

Ok. Thanks. Will try tonight and update.

b1jackson · « **Reply #80 on:** July 13, 2016, 04:05:49 PM »

Ok. Here is where I stand. Couple of fuse pops but mostly because I can't seem to follow directions tonight!

- yellow/red hooked to yellow/red harness wire
- green/red hooked to black wire hub in harness
- black/red hooked to black/red harness wire
-brown/white into black wire hub in harness
-black/white hooked to black/white in harness

What works? Everything seems to. Dash, signals, horn, tail, headlight comes on and off with the new switch. High beams work.

I have a left over black wires in harness?

What doesn't work?

I have no spark. Engine cranks over fine but no spark.

Just to catch everyone up this is a pamco system in a bike with a reproduction RH switch

scottly · « **Reply #81 on:** July 13, 2016, 05:40:24 PM »

Quote from: b1jackson on July 13, 2016, 04:05:49 PM

- black/red hooked to black/red harness wire
-brown/white into black wire hub in harness

Connect the black switch wire to a solid black harness wire.
Connect the brown/white switch wire to the black/red harness wire.

b1jackson · « **Reply #82 on:** July 18, 2016, 05:49:22 AM »

Ok. Been away for a few days but just tried this. Still no luck!

By doing what you last suggested, I ended up with a free red/black from the switch.

I put the black switch wire into the 4 wire hub with black input from the harness

I unplugged the brown/white switch and put it into the black/red harness wire

Still no spark and I lost use of the headlight. Wiggled the kill switch in case it was off and blew the fuse.

All along there has been a live brown wire in the harness, disconnected by the PO and assume it had to do with the tail light since there is an aftermarket led in place. I see no solid browns in the diagram that would come into play here.

Arrgggggg!

scottly · « **Reply #83 on:** July 18, 2016, 07:54:00 PM »

Quote from: b1jackson on July 13, 2016, 04:05:49 PM

Ok. Here is where I stand. Couple of fuse pops but mostly because I can't seem to follow directions tonight!

- yellow/red hooked to yellow/red harness wire
- green/red hooked to black wire hub in harness
- black/red hooked to black/red harness wire
-brown/white into black wire hub in harness
-black/white hooked to black/white in harness

What works? Everything seems to. Dash, signals, horn, tail, headlight comes on and off with the new switch. High beams work.

I have a left over black wires in harness?

What doesn't work?

I have no spark. Engine cranks over fine but no spark.

Just to catch everyone up this is a pamco system in a bike with a reproduction RH switch

Go back to this setup and measure the voltage where the harness black/wire connects to the coils under the tank. Key on, kill switch set to run.

b1jackson · « **Reply #84 on:** July 19, 2016, 03:21:52 PM »

Here is my voltage with things hooked back up and key on.

If I unplug the two wires coming from the coils and test from the harness it drops to 0.01.

scottly · « **Reply #85 on:** July 19, 2016, 08:32:44 PM »

So do the headlight and electric starter work?
Exactly what color are the wires from your switch?

b1jackson · « **Reply #86 on:** July 20, 2016, 02:03:40 AM »

Quote from: b1jackson on July 12, 2016, 03:12:34 PM

So the wire colors from the new switch are:

yellow/red
green/red
black/white
black/red
green/white
black

Yes, the headlight works. Low and high beam. Starter button does too. Also, headlight turns off and on with the new switch's off and on slider button (which I actually thought it wasn't meant to do for this bike).

scottly · « **Reply #87 on:** July 20, 2016, 09:15:24 PM »

Quote from: b1jackson on July 13, 2016, 04:05:49 PM

- yellow/red hooked to yellow/red harness wire
- green/red hooked to black wire hub in harness
- black/red hooked to black/red harness wire
-brown/white into black wire hub in harness
-black/white hooked to black/white in harness

The wires from the switch seem to have changed colors; first you had a green white wire, and then you had a brown white wire.
There should be 6 wires from the switch, two for the solenoid/starter button, which you have covered, a solid black wire that supplies 12v to the headlight on/off switch, and a brown/white wire that carries the power from the switch to the headlight. The other two wires should be a black that supplies power to the kill switch and a black/white wire that carries the power to the coils. Your aftermarket switch evidently has different colored wires than the stock switch.
Identify which wire has continuity to the black/white wire with the kill switch set to run, and no continuity when the kill is set to off. This wire should be connected to a harness black wire. If the fuse blows when the kill is turned to run, you have a short on the harness side of the black/white wire.

b1jackson · « **Reply #88 on:** July 21, 2016, 06:19:38 AM »

OK. So I have things hooked back up in the way where all switches, lights etc. seemed to work fine (yes...including the starter button) and will try the continuity test. Thanks again for hanging in with me on this issue.

Just to clairfy, am I disconnecting the black/white switch wire at the black/white harness and testing here at the switch side? With how things are hooked up now, I am just unsure at what exactly you mean by testing continuity to the black/white wire.

scottly · « **Reply #89 on:** July 21, 2016, 09:44:56 AM »

Yes, disconnect the black/white wire, and find which switch wire it has continuity to, with the kill switch set to run.

b1jackson · « **Reply #90 on:** July 21, 2016, 11:26:09 AM »

So I unhook, put my probe on the switch side of black/white the and all other wires (besides the black/white) remain connected during the test? I just probe at them with the other probe to test continuity while switching the kill back and forth?

Don't worry! There will be pictures!

scottly · « **Reply #91 on:** July 21, 2016, 12:06:38 PM »

To start with, leave the other wires connected. When you think you have found the correct wire, disconnect it from the harness and verify it.

b1jackson · « **Reply #92 on:** July 21, 2016, 03:10:02 PM »

Ok. Please be patient with me while I learn wiring!

. Here are my test results

Unplugged black white switch wire. Black probe from multimeter connected to the black/white wire from the new switch. Red probe touched to each of the other switch wires while remaining connected to the hub and other connections:
Assuming this is no or null continuity as my meter doesn't have a tone or buzzer

The only wire that showed anything different than the above was the spare black from the new switch that currently isn't connected to anything. When testing this black with the kill set to off, the above reading showed. When switch to run, it showed 0.00

The key was turned to the run position when I did the testing however the readings taken from the spare black did not change even when the key was turned off. Same results.....null when off and 0.00 when switched to run position.

Hope I've explained this clearly.

scottly · « **Reply #93 on:** July 21, 2016, 07:14:42 PM »

The "spare" black wire is the one that is supposed to provide the 12V input to the kill switch. The black/white is the output of the kill switch. Connect the black wire to a black harness wire, and measure the voltage on the disconnected blk/wht switch wire, with the key on and the kill on; it should be 12V with the kill on, and nothing with the kill off. If so, turn the key off, reconnect the blk/wht wire, and turn the key on and kill on. See if the fuse blows. If not, test for spark. If the fuse blows, report back.
BTW, your meter is set in the 20K-ohm position; this is for testing large resistances like 10,000 ohm spark plug caps. For low resistance readings, it should be set to the lowest level of 200 ohms.

b1jackson · « **Reply #94 on:** July 21, 2016, 07:33:44 PM »

Which wire should I remove from the hub to make room to try the black wire?

scottly · « **Reply #95 on:** July 21, 2016, 07:42:31 PM »

What do you mean by hub? Picture please.

scottly · « **Reply #96 on:** July 21, 2016, 09:08:50 PM »

Quote from: b1jackson on July 21, 2016, 07:33:44 PM

Which wire should I remove from the hub to make room to try the black wire?

Remove the wire that feeds 12V to the headlight, and plug the kill switch wire in there. The original switch had only one black wire that connected to the harness, but split into two black wires inside the switch harness, while the new switch has the two wires separated. The headlight won't work, but you can prove out the ignition/spark circuit, and then we'll go back and fix the headlight.

b1jackson · « **Reply #97 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:54:41 AM »

Quote from: scottly on July 21, 2016, 07:42:31 PM

What do you mean by hub? Picture please

b1jackson · « **Reply #98 on:** July 22, 2016, 02:26:37 PM »

Quote from: scottly on July 21, 2016, 07:14:42 PM

The "spare" black wire is the one that is supposed to provide the 12V input to the kill switch. The black/white is the output of the kill switch. Connect the black wire to a black harness wire, and measure the voltage on the disconnected blk/wht switch wire, with the key on and the kill on; it should be 12V with the kill on, and nothing with the kill off.

Ok. From the "hub" as I call it, I removed the brown/white wire as this was the one that killed the headlight when I pulled it out. Recall there was a spare brown wire in the harness that the PO had unhooked. I knew this had power to it. With the key off, it had 0.3volts, turn the key on and it gets 10.6volts. Plugged in the brown/white switch wire to this solid brown and no issues. Headlight works, high, low beam and goes off/on with the slider switch.

Then plugged in the "spare" black into the hub as you suggested and in the run position, it reads 0volts. Switch the kill to the off position and it reads 8.34volts.

So not what was predicted or supposed to happen!

scottly · « **Reply #99 on:** July 22, 2016, 08:03:01 PM »

My head hurts.

I don't care about the headlight. Where did you measure 0 volts with the kill set to run, and 8.34 with it set to off? At the "hub"(hey, it's as good a term as any, now that I know what you mean.

), or on the black white wire from the switch?
For voltage readings, set your meter to the 20 setting at about 10:00 on the dial, and place the black meter lead on the battery - terminal.

News:

Author Topic: Need some help trying to start bike with suspected frigged kill switch (Read 20986 times)