Topic: lacing a wheel

[Clyde]

I have used Buchanan, Hagon and some local AUstralian made spokes. They all do that to a varying degree. The rear was harder than the front to get together, but both looked OK when tightened up.
Make sure you do the radial adjustment first, then correct any side movement afterwards
Regds Clyde

[rhinoracer]

Thanks both, I'll go ahead and tighten the spokes then.

[tsflstb]

I've been scratching my head for 2 days now.  Maybe I'm missing the forest for the trees here, but I can't figure this out.

I've read the excellent write-ups in the FAQ section and I think I'm following them correctly.  I've got the inner spokes on both sides laced up OK.  Yesterday I started trying to lace one side of the outers at a time and ran out of slack on the last side.  Today I tried doing one outer from each side at a time and still can't get the outer spokes started.  I'm pretty sure they're going in the right holes.  There are holes offset to each side and going in opposite directions, but maybe I have it indexed wrong?

The spokes are stock length, just thicker.  The only wild card here is the rim is not custom for my hub, but I was told it is drilled for an 8" full width hub just like mine.  The spoke pattern is not looking like the stock wheel.  Is there another pattern for a 36 hole rim?

Does anything jump out at you in this pic?  I've got the inners installed on both sides and started doing one outer per side.  I can get about 3 of them in before I just run out of slack.  The spoke on the far side at about 12 o'clock is the last one I tried installing, but it won't reach it's hole.



Here's the difference in length sticking out of the rim.  The inners seem like they're not angled enough or something.



Stock wheel for reference:

[Patrick]

If you have the old spokes compare the new ones to the old ones. Make sure they are the same length and make sure the angle of the bend in the spoke at the hub is the same for the inside and outside. If the hub, spokes and rim were now designed to go together you might have to modify that bend to get it all to line up. Also, make sure you are not switching the outer spokes with the inner spokes.

I spent several hours a month ago unsuccessfully trying to lace a wheel. When I discovered the angle being a little off it took about 30 minutes to finally lace it up.

Truing that sucker is where the real adventure begins....

Good luck.

Patrick

[crazypj]

It look like your only going 3 holes instead of 4?
 You have 36 hole hub but I see 8 sets not 9 4x8=32, 4x9=36

PJ

[bwaller]

Try installing ALL the spokes in the hub first and fiqure out the cross pattern. You can even use a little electrical tape where each pair of spokes cross to hold them somewhat. If you have another wheel to go by so much the better. Then lower the rim over the whole thing and it should be obvious by the angle of the hole in the rim, which spoke goes where. It then takes a little patience to install the spokes in the proper orientation, and it may be necessary to remove some of the tape here. When it appears everything looks right start installing spoke nipples radially outer & inner just a turn first until you can get them all on. 

It's tough to tell by your pic but it doesn't appear that you've found the correct pattern.

Good luck

[rhinoracer]

It look like your only going 3 holes instead of 4?
 You have 36 hole hub but I see 8 sets not 9 4x8=32, 4x9=36

PJ

He's right, you should be going 4 holes to obtain the desired pattern.

Thicker spokes will make it harder to fit the outer spokes but they do fit, so that shouldn't be causing your problem. I just went thru that myself.

That the rim was drilled for an 8" hub doesn't mean it'll use the same length spokes as stock, different rim profiles use different length spokes, so you should check on that also.

You can tell the outer spokes from the inner spokes by the bend, outers have a tighter bend. I say this because it seems in your pics that the inner spokes are way too long and the outers are way too short, so if you don't have them mixed you probably need different length spokes.

[tsflstb]

I'm pretty sure I have the right spokes.  They may all need to be ground off at the nipple once installed since this Akront rim has a little more drop in the center.  Something is definitely off since the outer spokes won't even reach the rim.

It look like your only going 3 holes instead of 4?
 You have 36 hole hub but I see 8 sets not 9 4x8=32, 4x9=36

I'm not following you here.  Do you mean 3 holes between spokes on the same side?  I think I've got the spokes in the only way they'll go.  Once you start the first one, there's only one other hole on the rim facing that side, and it's drilled in the opposite direction. 

That the rim was drilled for an 8" hub doesn't mean it'll use the same length spokes as stock, different rim profiles use different length spokes, so you should check on that also.

I'm confused because the inners went in great, the rim seemed true, and now the outers are getting in a bind.  Unless this rim was really meant for some kind of conical hub I can't see how it would happen.  That's got me wondering if the rim itself is drilled for another pattern.  Just eyeballing it against the stock rim, the spoke pattern looks identical.  I guess it doesn't take much to throw everything off though.

Possibly the stupidest question ever -- does it matter if I flip the rim over (reverse the direction of rotation)?  I wouldn't think so, but I'm grasping at straws now.

Thanks for the ideas.  I've emailed Buchanans to see what they say too.

[mlinder]

Note the difference at the hub. I've marked lace holes with blotches of colors to show.

[tsflstb]

I agree the spoke pattern just doesn't look right.  Your dots make me realize that I've got two inner spokes crossing where an inner and outer should cross.  -Edit - but it looks like we're talking about two different sets of spokes.  The blue one I highligted is on the near side, the red is on the far side.

My brain is hurting now...I'll unlace it again tonight and start over.  Hopefully it's something I'm doing wrong and it will come to me.

[Bodain]

Hee hee... I laced up a 16 in. Harley type wheel to a Honda CB 750 rear hub.... Had nothing but grief..

Bought a set of spoke on Ebay claiming to be for this task. They simply would not work. Too long.The seller insisted the spokes were fine. I purchased another set of spokes from Ebay. These were slightly shorter. Still wouldn't work. It was like the inner spokes didn't have enough angle on them...

Finally I saw a picture of a laced wheel doing exactly what I was trying to do. ALL the spokes came from the inside of the Honda hub. Instead of alternating inside, outside.
This worked! But I still had to cut about 1/4 inch off each spokes and retap them.

Finally it all came together...

[tsflstb]

I got a reply from Angel at Buchanans this afternoon.  He must have seen this before.  I think this is what some of you guys were trying to tell me too.

The reason why you are having a problem lacing the wheel is because the stock rim was drilled standard Japanese and the new rim is drilled non-standard European. For this reason the spokes can not be laced following the marks. What you need to do is reverse the inner and outer spoke direction on one side and it will work fine. Leave the drum side laced the way you have it now but reverse the direction of the top side spokes of picture one. 

This thing practically laced itself once I switched directions.  Here it is after both sides of inner spokes:



And with the outers:



Now I just need to take it all apart again, polish the hub and spokes and maybe powdercoat the rim.  I feel much better knowing it will work (and I'm not a complete idiot).  Maybe I should wait on that last comment until I have it trued up.

[rhinoracer]

There you go! 

[Jinxracing]

Thanks for posting the solution! I was waiting to see how it all turned out...I'm going to be lacing my wheels in the not too near future.

Sounds like Angel deserves a six-pack. 

[tsflstb]

Yeah, that guy knows his stuff.  Hopefully this will broaden your options if you want alloy rims.

If you're cheap like me, search Ebay for old dirtbike wheels, Maico, Montessa, Husky - I think this one came from an Ossa.  They're old Spanish dirtbikes that used Akronts stock.  Their rear hubs are very similar to the 36 spoke Hondas.  Be patient and you can snatch one up cheap.  I got the one I'm lacing in the pictures for $9.99.  For the 40 hole CB750s, there are more options out there.

I never found any 18", 36 hole take-off rim from another bike that would fit the front, so I'm having a shouldered Excel rim custom drilled. 

[Patrick]

I have seen pictures of spoked wheels with fancy lacing patterns. I was wondering if anyone knows a website that shows how these patterns are achieved?

My thought: my K0 750 came with a replacement rear hub and a NOS rear rim. It also came with a new set of stainless steel spokes. The problem is the spokes are longer than stock by about 1.25 inches. Too long for the 18" rear, too short for the 19" front. It seems a shame not to use them, so I was wondering it a different lacing pattern is possible that might accommodate the extra length.

It seems unlikely, but you never know. Ideas, anyone?

Patrick

[.RJ]

I laced up the rear wheel what I thought was per the directions, and this is what I had:



And took them to the honda dealer for truing - they said the lacing pattern isnt right, the spokes were binding up against each other.  Am I missing something, or should I just get a spoke kit that laces inside/outside just like the stock spokes?  They are going to try lacing it up a different way and see if it worked, but I dont want them to use up too much time on it.

Thanks

[newcbguy]

thats the way the 16" wheel I have is laced. all from the inside. I talked to a guy who laced them in out and he said that he had to hit them (with a hammer) and bend them to lace them the other way 
didnt plan on him lacing any wheels for me anytime soon!

[.RJ]

I was originally going to powdercoat the hubs and spokes, and I have a set of spokes from buchanan (sp?) that lace just like stock, inside/outside - but they're painted, I'd have to strip the powdercoat off and then have them plated if I wanted to use them.

[.RJ]

Turns out I laced them wrong - they fixed it for me and they'll be ready tomorrow :rock:

Next time I will just leave everything up to the pros

[ekim98]

thats the way the 16" wheel I have is laced. all from the inside. 

That's how mine is too. I haven't had any problems at all, but I haven't been over 102 mph yet either.

[Triffecpa]

RJ

Can you post a pic of the wheel after the "experts" fixed it?

Thanks
Tracy

[.RJ]

Sure thing - I pick 'em up saturday (the dealer is 2 hrs away, no one around here knew what a spoke was).  I'll try to grab a pic before I rush to put them on the bike

[chopstar500]

I laced up the rear wheel what I thought was per the directions, and this is what I had:



And took them to the honda dealer for truing - they said the lacing pattern isnt right, the spokes were binding up against each other.  Am I missing something, or should I just get a spoke kit that laces inside/outside just like the stock spokes?  They are going to try lacing it up a different way and see if it worked, but I dont want them to use up too much time on it.

Thanks

Yeah... that's the wrong lacing pattern - technically, you should have inside and outside spokes vs. all inside spokes. Looks like you got that squared away though!

[flipprboi]

nice wheels though! Can't wait to see the bike

-benjie