Author Topic: Gentlemans Express Cb550  (Read 20060 times)

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Offline Stev-o

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #100 on: July 27, 2016, 08:15:10 AM »
If carbs are off you will have 37 first pull, middle pull 44hp, and third pull 38hp...

Can you really ride the difference?


The  "butt dyno" may feel the difference.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #101 on: July 27, 2016, 10:13:36 AM »
If carbs are off you will have 37 first pull, middle pull 44hp, and third pull 38hp...
This is probably very close on the numbers. A 650 cam, larger low compression pistons won't do much for you in the HP arena, and your carbs are stock, not "heavy breathers".

Never spend the money to make a vintage bike a "fire breather". Spend it because you enjoy it, love the final product, and disregard the fact that for 1/2 as much you could buy a brand new UJM that would put you on your butt through an intersection. Who cares, right? Its yours and you have built it. At the end of the day, HP is about bragging rights, and its paper, not reality. Can you really ride the difference?

Yes, building a custom bike or fire breather engine will almost assuredly not prove to be a good financial investment for resale profit.  Do it because you love it and want to enjoy it. 
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #102 on: July 28, 2016, 02:42:27 PM »
Oh no, please tell me Cam is not morphing into JWilde - designer faux fur "cut" vest and all.  Of course, our former Instacelebrity never had such a nice looking bike to post up on Instagram.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline Camrector

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #103 on: July 28, 2016, 03:00:33 PM »
 ;D ;D ;D
I'm more into tailored suits and Vintage Burgundy than most of my contemporaries.

Offline Camrector

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #104 on: July 28, 2016, 03:03:38 PM »
But hopefully it is helping everyone's resale value!

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #105 on: July 28, 2016, 08:22:11 PM »
The power question: mostly the 500/550 engine suffers from lack of breath due to (stock) a too-early spark advance curve and a slight mismatch in size of the 22mm carbs with the intake valve size. But, since the intake runners are also sized to the 22mm carbs, bolting on 24mm carbs doesn't help much because it won't then mix right in the all-important 5000-6000 RPM range where this engine first gets it legs. Those I know who solved this in the intake area bored the intake castings bigger (and thin!) to match some 24mm carbs (I have NO clue where they got those, though) and did the usual things to the intake and exhaust ports above the valves, to the point that I saw 4.00x18 tires leaving rubber and smoke on the pavement at the nightly drags on those (2) bikes. They had stock cams, though, so their ET was still not real exciting, but stoplight contests were much easier. I moved away from that area the summer they were finding new cams, never heard how it turned out for them, but I did see some 500-4 bikes roadracing here in CO when I arrived, sporting Action Fours cams and 522cc (I think that was the size) pistons at 9.4:1 CR (and some non-stock cams). They were 10K RPM bikes and did well, and heralded their front straights with a great GP sound as they headed into 5th gear, great fun! (Now that track is shut down, drat...) One had a 4-2 exhaust set with megaphones, the other had long straight pipes turned up on the back, next to the axle, with Snuff-R-Nots in the ends. Those (roadracer) guys had gone to the trouble of installing 520 chains and sprockets for the lighter weight, alloy wheels, and small (roadrace tread) tires to reduce the unsprung weight, and it paid off for them.

All the elements are there to pull 50 HP out of these engines with enough time and $$, but it takes some commitment (like BWaller does) to get it there, and no small amount of maintenance to keep it there. The gearbox is a case in point: the gears are relatively small (to make a small crankcase) and are hindered with the Hy-Vo chain (lower power transfer than regular chains in equal size, but smoother and quieter), so exceptional lubrication (no popcorn, please? I won't expound those details here...) will release some of this, and this was proven over and over by me and my friends with the 500-4 back in the 1972-3 era (before the 550 came along).  I was sad to never get to dyno my 500 like I did many 750s, but I think it was a stellar 35 HP when I got it, and by the next summer was a 100+ MPH bike, sitting upright in the seat,  without disassembling the engine (or modifying the carbs). Honda's state-of-tune as shipped was aimed at markets like the US East Coast, British cities and Euro burgs, who were clamoring for a Four but, "...does it have to be so big?..." and in that realm it did just what they wanted.  :)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #106 on: July 29, 2016, 07:51:02 AM »
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline Camrector

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #107 on: July 30, 2016, 12:19:10 PM »
Got her pretty close now. 2.75 and 3 turns out on the mixture screws.
Still at all stock settings, and no foam/resistance in the air box. Going to try stepping down to 35 pilots and maybe 95mains. But the plugs are reading better. Dyno also next week.

Offline calj737

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #108 on: July 30, 2016, 01:08:28 PM »
I have been under the impression that beyond 2 turns, you are making no effective change in the carbs.??? If you are that far out, you definitely need different jets.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline Camrector

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #109 on: July 30, 2016, 01:36:33 PM »
Exactly Cal. Different jets.
But I can as well as Sinister confirm that 2.75-3 turns out, leaned us out.
Still just funny to me that a hotter cam, port and valve work, and a open exhaust wouldn't run richer.
I understand that a bigger motor would pull more vacuum, but I figured I'd be in the land of Tews.
Jets on the way.

Offline Camrector

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #110 on: August 06, 2016, 03:00:58 PM »
Well we are dialed in perfect! After inspecting the carbs, getting ready for a jet change we noticed the pilots were actually #40s. Boneheads!!! Swapped those with the stock #38s and we were gold. Wideband is reading 13.5 at idle, 14.2 at half throttle, and 14.8 at full. Plugs are reading a beautiful Beyoncé brown.
This is also with the foam ring around the SD air box. So final settings are 98 mains
38 pilots, 4th position on the needle, air screws 1.5 turns out.
So just waiting for Works to ship the new shocks and we are done.
Maybe a front fender too in the future

Offline Tews19

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #111 on: August 06, 2016, 03:06:07 PM »
Congrats!
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Offline calj737

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #112 on: August 06, 2016, 04:45:46 PM »
And the dyno graph for HP and torque?
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline sinister902

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #113 on: August 06, 2016, 04:55:59 PM »
And the dyno graph for HP and torque?

The dyno guy blew us off, we street tuned with my wideband setup on a tailpipe clamp lol.

Offline Camrector

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #114 on: August 06, 2016, 10:30:56 PM »
No dyno yet. Soon I hope. Man this thing is a blast though!

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #115 on: August 08, 2016, 09:17:49 AM »
It seems like it's close to done.  How's the front fender coming?
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline sinister902

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #116 on: August 08, 2016, 10:30:17 AM »
I gotta make time to either make the fender mounts from aluminum, or draw them at work in 3D to have our friend at Viking Design 3D-print them. both probably take the same amount of time, but one I can do while on the clock at work :P lol

Offline Camrector

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #117 on: August 08, 2016, 11:52:42 AM »
I'd call it pretty done for now Don. 2 fender mounts away. I don't know if sinister is going to be able to keep me off it for enough time to measure lol.

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #118 on: August 08, 2016, 01:50:15 PM »
I'd call it pretty done for now Don. 2 fender mounts away. I don't know if sinister is going to be able to keep me off it for enough time to measure lol.

What about your wife? I thought this was her ride?  Maybe you should let her have at it!  I suppose you could log in a few shakedown miles as a favor to her!

Thanks Cal, I believe the progressive shocks will suffice for now. This build is for my wife so if she doesn't like the rear off they go!  ;) And being a mother of 3 now, she isn't really getting that low in the twistys anymore.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline Camrector

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #119 on: August 08, 2016, 03:03:12 PM »
Don. Shussssssh!!

Honestly she was bombing around on it yesterday. She looks great on it too. Made me eat my words in the twisties

Offline calj737

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #120 on: August 08, 2016, 04:08:45 PM »
Honestly she was bombing around on it yesterday. She looks great on it too. Made me eat her dust in the twisties
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #121 on: August 08, 2016, 04:29:19 PM »
Glad to hear this won't be a trailer queen. 

Lordy, let this NOT be Cam's wifey.  ;)  :o ;D
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline Camrector

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #122 on: August 08, 2016, 04:32:08 PM »
Glad I took your advice on the shocks Cal!
Don just look at those stems!!!!

Offline luvmy71

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #123 on: August 08, 2016, 05:04:31 PM »
So I'm wondering how many folks on this site have two sets of carbs for ez tuning?  Seems like it would save a lot of time to have an exact duplicate set (to extent possible) to set up with different jets/needle settings.  Pop 'em on and test
CB750 K1
'74 CB550 Cafe Project

Offline Camrector

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Re: Gentlemans Express Cb550
« Reply #124 on: August 08, 2016, 05:19:44 PM »
We did jet swaps with the carbs still on the bike Luvmy. Getting the carbs off and back on was a pain, and with the SD airbox, I had pull an engine mount off.