Author Topic: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%  (Read 5374 times)

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Offline chewbacca5000

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I know we have talked about this before, but I am starting to think it is time we do something about it.  I was reading this story on CNBC about a registered nurse who creating a bedding line ans was selling 200 units a day at $13.99.  She and her husband worked hard to build up their business and had 8 employees before the knock-offs started showing up.  Now she is trying to drive sales to her site and away from Amazon.

Seems crazy, but maybe we need marketplaces that are certified "maker friendly" where the creators get the profit not greedy corporations.  Shame on Amazon for allowing this.


http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/08/amazons-chinese-counterfeit-problem-is-getting-worse.html

Offline FunJimmy

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Re: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2016, 09:39:05 AM »
That's it for Amazon. I've deleted my account.

Thanks
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Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2016, 09:59:48 AM »
That's it for Amazon. I've deleted my account.

Thanks

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Amazon have a responsibility to protect true entrepreneurs who make stuff?

That woman was living the American dream pouring her, blood, sweat and tears into what turned out to be a rigged game. 

Free trade is fine so long as the door swing both ways.  In no way is copying others original ideas fair.  Counterfeiting is theft plain and simple.

We have seen the same thing here first hand someone makes something, it becomes popular enough to knockoff then the maker/creator who invested all the time and money is left out in the cold.

I am sick of these large corporations.  They are criminals IMO.  Just because they can get away with it does not make it right.

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Re: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2016, 02:11:24 PM »
It ain't Amazon that's to blame here, put that squarely on the Chinese who have been the bane of the free market for at least 40 years now.  I think the hope was that after they became very involved in the global markets they'd clamp down on the rampant pirating if only to protect their own products.  That doesn't seem to be the case though.
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Offline FunJimmy

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Re: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2016, 12:36:24 AM »
It ain't Amazon that's to blame here, put that squarely on the Chinese who have been the bane of the free market for at least 40 years now.  I think the hope was that after they became very involved in the global markets they'd clamp down on the rampant pirating if only to protect their own products.  That doesn't seem to be the case though.

So what you're saying is the drug dealer isn't the problem, the pot grower is. Right? The Chinese government, business people and manufactures have no respect for anything or anyone except themselves. That isn't news so don't expect it to change in China. America's corporations that facilitate the route to market (for profit) of these crooks are the ones to blame. Do you realize Sam Walton has been exporting your decent middle class jobs to China for decades, while becoming one of the richest men in America? The Rich get richer and the poor get poorer while China produces and ships crap to the US.
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Offline FunJimmy

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Re: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2016, 08:31:12 AM »

Sure seems like you're blaming Amercian corporations alone for the growth of Chinese exports, Jimmy?
Have you ever taken notice of how much Canada imports from these same factories? International Patent laws are not observed or respected in China. Period. They are unashamed to infringe entirely on any product, from any manufacturer in the world as it suits them. Because they are a huge market, global corporations endure their behavior.

Investors, SEC regulations, and lawyers dictate behavior of large corporations, Jimmy, not some evil boardroom hell bent upon lining their pockets at the expense of the "little man". As for Amazon being complicit, how does anyone expect them (Amazon) to police and apply policy to appropriately stifle this type of behavior? Really, is it their role to ensure that some individual entrepreneur is protected? I think not. If a business model is successful, it will be mimicked. Look upon the auto industry, cookware, computers, vacuum cleaners, furniture, etc, etc. EVERYTHING has competition. If it weren't for competition, there would be no Free Markets. Can't have it both ways.

If you are entrepreneur, then invest the requisite money to protect your product with a Patent. A business model is not protected, so unless you can tolerate competition, best you sign up to collect a payroll check and avoid the frustration.

I think you're being a bit disingenuous and naive Cal. It IS the corporations that for decades have sold out the North American middle class to share holders. It IS those CEO's that have benefited from enormous compensation/share packages and bonuses for driving corporate profits at all costs. Consumers are also to blame. We continuously look for the lowest price goods and often don't give a second thought to the big picture. We're greedy. We live outside ours means and consume at an unsustainable rate which forces us to continue to support the very manufactures that siphon the wealth out.

Competition is good for everyone providing it's fair competition. You don't get fair competition when you solicit cheep labour markets with deplorable human rights and an equally poor environmental record. When China's standard of living equals that of North America prices will level off and corporations will move to the next upcoming slave labour market.

What they failed to tell us in business school is that like water, economies find their own level. Are you willing to give up your comfy North American standard of living to help others achieve parity?

Canada isn't amune to the influx of poor quality, low cost Chinese products either. Our markets are linked at the hip. Consumers are the solution and we need to stop supporting companies that perpetuate the problem. Stop purchasing cheap products from countries that damage our economies and purchase from responsible producers. Our dollars keep the wheels turning.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 08:55:55 AM by FunJimmy »
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Offline 754

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Re: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2016, 08:53:30 AM »
Having a patent won't stop Chinese from knocking your product off.. Really. Big companies can then fight it, the little guys can't.
 Kudo to Princess Auto, for their FunJimmy attitude.
A local company. Was bringing a product to market, and getting batches of parts made in China.. With huge rejection rates I should add. Before theirs was in the market a knockoff appeared at Princess Auto. The inventors went to them and explained. The situation,  an PA pulled all the bogus product off the shelves..kudos to them..
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Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2016, 09:00:28 AM »
That is great Frank!  Glad to hear PA did the right thing.  Amazon partnering with manufactures who make counterfit products and selling directly to the consumers is not the right thing.


The coffee people did it.  Fair trade coffee.  Consumers who don't know the whole story really don't have a choice.

I would rather buy human friendly prodcuts where a good chunk of money goes to labor.

As far as profits are concerned the current breakdown is 99% to the corporation 1% for people.

A more fair breakdown might be.

33% Corporation / Sales / Marketers
33% Inventors / Makers / Creators
33% Manufactures

The problem is that technology allows the pie to be sliced up in a lop sided way.  Amazon is now partnering directly with Chineese manufactures selling directly to consumers now.  This is fine if the respected intellectual property which they don't.

We all know this.  So does Amazon.  Is Amazon responsible?  You beat they are.

Consumers need to stand up and say enough is enough.

Offline eigenvector

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Re: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2016, 09:02:47 AM »
It ain't Amazon that's to blame here, put that squarely on the Chinese who have been the bane of the free market for at least 40 years now.  I think the hope was that after they became very involved in the global markets they'd clamp down on the rampant pirating if only to protect their own products.  That doesn't seem to be the case though.

So what you're saying is the drug dealer isn't the problem, the pot grower is. Right? The Chinese government, business people and manufactures have no respect for anything or anyone except themselves. That isn't news so don't expect it to change in China. America's corporations that facilitate the route to market (for profit) of these crooks are the ones to blame. Do you realize Sam Walton has been exporting your decent middle class jobs to China for decades, while becoming one of the richest men in America? The Rich get richer and the poor get poorer while China produces and ships crap to the US.

No, that wasn't my argument
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Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2016, 10:42:07 AM »
Maybe we need a rating system for companies other than inventor ROI.

Who knows maybe it could be the human index?  1 to 5 stars.  5 stars for companies that treat people fairly and pay their workers a middle income wage.

1 star for child / slave labor companies.

If people had an easy to use numerical score then maybe things might start to change, but then again alot of the current reviews on Amazon are paid.

Got to pay to play.

Offline eigenvector

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Re: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2016, 11:24:32 AM »
The stakes involved in trade are far too high for anyone to play fairly.

That goes for labor, executives, AND consumers.  To believe otherwise is naïve and/or disengenous.  Spouting "stick it to the man!"  is no better than apologizing for some executive's decision to lay everyone off just to make an extra 0.1% on their margins.
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Offline FunJimmy

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Re: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2016, 12:17:07 PM »
Yes. We're helpless victims of our own construct.
Our fate is sealed.

Feel better?

BTW, you might want to tell your next President, The Donald before he tears up NAFTA and vitos the TPP.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 12:25:32 PM by FunJimmy »
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Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2016, 01:35:20 PM »
Yes. We're helpless victims of our own construct.
Our fate is sealed.

Feel better?

BTW, you might want to tell your next President, The Donald before he tears up NAFTA and vitos the TPP.

TPP is like Christmas for the corporations.  All those who voted for super NAFTA should be brought up on charges.  No one cares  unless it happens to them.

Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2016, 07:32:44 AM »
Unions and US tax rates are the reason jobs are heading overseas. Holy #$%* cal, you need to be a standup comedian stat, you are #$%*in' hilarious!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Re: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2016, 08:39:37 AM »
So, it has nothing to do with higher profit margins and quarterly reports to shareholders?
The blame is all on big, bad horrible unions that are at their lowest memberships numbers in decades and US taxes that are at the lowest levels in our history.

Like I said, you are farkin' funny man!  :D :D ;) ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :) :) :) :) :)
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Offline Gene

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Re: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2016, 10:20:02 AM »
This reduces their EBITDA, which essentially bankrupts them.

I'm not a fan of using EBITDA as a measure of profitability - especially when . . .

All of this is further exacerbated by the US Corporate Tax rates (which are the highest in the world).

(Which is the IT in EBITDA . . .)  is used in the same argument.  No offense Cal.  By the way, the UAE still beats us out as far as highest tax rate, with a number of other countries sneaking up closely. 

Carry on, sorry to intrude.
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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2016, 11:14:42 AM »
What i would have given to been a union memeber when i was working for the big box bicycle store.

Owner of the company just walks in off the plane from his golf course condo in hawaii and tells me "You don't fit in the business model"

So I has to ask him "how do repair technicians no fit in your business model"

He didn'g say the words, but I coulda sued him on some discriminatory ground, rumor had it, guy didn't like my fookin haircut.

Getting fired over a haircut is exactly why workers need unions and unions need good reps.

Cause what would a business be without its staff right?

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Re: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2016, 11:39:30 AM »
 Bomber - that reminds me of when I was younger and got fired because I didn't fit the "Corporate Image" . . ah well - I could have dressed a little differently I suppose . . . different time. The manager loved me - the corporate schill on a visit to the location, not so much. ;D
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Offline dusterdude

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Re: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2016, 03:16:37 PM »
If,the consumer didnt buy that crap,it wouldnt be sold

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Offline Gene

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Re: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2016, 03:18:01 PM »
If,the consumer didnt buy that crap,it wouldnt be sold

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Offline FunJimmy

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Re: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2016, 03:42:09 PM »
If,the consumer didnt buy that crap,it wouldnt be sold

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Stop purchasing cheap products from countries that damage our economies and purchase from responsible producers. Our dollars keep the wheels turning.

Agree
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Re: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2016, 04:54:45 PM »
So, it has nothing to do with higher profit margins and quarterly reports to shareholders?
It always astonishes me that people don't see the cause and effect and myopically focus only the specter of "Corporate Greed". That would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.

Ahh I see, the ever growing void between the haves and have nots, isn't really happening  is all just a figment of my imagination...!!!
Sorry Cal but, corporate greed is a massive, almost unrestrained problem world wide.....  And I didn't just make that up.... ;)
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Offline 754

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Re: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2016, 07:00:08 PM »
Patents are not being honored globally...
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Re: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2016, 07:19:37 PM »
There is such a thing a thing as "Corporate Greed" but it is not the pervasive symptom of economies failing. After all, what reason do companies exist? To make, sell, service or design products and deliver services for profit. The Red Cross is not the business model by which all others operate.

Now, theres certainly companies that behave better than others toward their employees, have different ethics etc., but that doesn't make them immune to seeking to maximize their profits. I think its rather naive of people to believe that companies should exist for the purpose of employing people with little focus on their bottom line. That is why companies fail; they can't operate profitably. Maximizing profits comes in many different ways; labor costs, operational efficiencies, volume discounts, lower tax rates (see foreign subsidiaries) and trade practices. National politics drives economies and corporate business decisions. Hostile tax rates and labor rates drive companies out. Its as simple as that.

I believe that people need to be able to work, to earn a fair pay for their work, and to succeed based upon the merits of their talents. Union-based employment does nothing to foster that and mostly inhibits it. Simple as that. As for the original idea of this thread, any person who makes and sells a product publicly, has little chance to prevent it being copied unless it is patented and that patent is honored nationally/globally. The Nurse's business model is not patentable, and therefore she/they were undercut by competition. Welcome to the Free Market.

Free trade agreements are most of the problem, we are more interested in seeing how much money we can make from selling everything overseas that we do a great disservice to our own countries, this is a world wide phenomenon, In Australia, we send our BEST produce overseas, create local shortfalls and end up paying more for inferior product, we could quite successfully look after our own market first but the mighty dollar says otherwise. I'm a fan of unions Cal, who else is going to protect the workers rights.?  Not saying all unions are great but someone has to look after the workers. The average worker here has a higher standard of pay and conditions than those in America generally and I see that as a good thing, the big corporates still rake in massive { Obscene}profits and pay the Execs ridiculous wages.....
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Re: RE: Chineese Counterfeit cost Registered Nurse's business 50%
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2016, 07:45:22 PM »
...and pay the Execs ridiculous wages.....
They earn those putting up with whining employees, Mick  ;D ;)

Calm down, it was a joke...

There's much you wrote that I agree with, aside from the worker's Rights. That is no longer the issue here that it once was. Too many Unions here have diluted accountability, performance, and initiative. Our Federal Gov't Employee's Union for instance, prevents blatant crooks and thieves from being terminated all the while they sit at home, collecting pay without working (several cases specifically where they simply "stopped showing up") and taxing the citizens. Fortunately, we do have Labor laws that provide protection (as I mentioned earlier) and thats a good thing. Perhaps we are slightly ahead of Aus in that regard?

You know what the sleeping giant in the background is, automation, I was reading an interesting article last week about how many jobs are going to disappear due to advances in automation and computers, some quotes were as high as 40% of the work force being out of work, Governments should really start working out solutions to this as it IS the future, mass population unemployment will create huge problems if it isn't addressed quickly...
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