Author Topic: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod  (Read 34368 times)

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Offline GV1390

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #100 on: January 17, 2017, 07:21:52 AM »
Nice man!

When I shipped mine to him I split it up in two boxes. May I suggest to package (carefully) your jugs and head together as Nils states these act like a "wrecking ball" when the box is tossed around especially paired with your other engine pieces. I went to Home Depot and purchased two smaller heavy duty cardboard boxes for this and used a ton of bubble wrap/etc to ensure the pieces were safe.
93' GSX-R1100, 78' CB550, 71' CL350, 71’ CB500 & 02' ZRX1200R.

Offline calj737

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #101 on: January 17, 2017, 07:33:47 AM »
I believe member Elan sells a rebuild kit, but not the rotor. Member Messner was having new ones machined so you might search his project "There will be oil" for information.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #102 on: January 17, 2017, 09:01:06 AM »
I believe member Elan sells a rebuild kit, but not the rotor. Member Messner was having new ones machined so you might search his project "There will be oil" for information.

Messner is making new oil pumps or rebuild kits?

Yes, Eric, it's a good idea to rebuild that pump now before reassembly.  The last thing you want after spending all that time and money is for your 39-year-old oil pump to fail and toast your new engine.  I don't know much about Cycle-X's new heavy duty oil pump.  Perhaps someone running one or knowledgeable about its specs can chime in.
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"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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Offline Ericcb750

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #103 on: January 17, 2017, 09:46:32 AM »
Thanks Guys, I'll do some research, I 100% going to re-build it then....Like you said, I would be banging my head into the wall (VERY HARD) if I didn't do it and had an issue with oil flow/pressure.

I did go to Lowes and get some Heavy duty boxes, I was able to fit everything in the largest one 24x18x18 but man that thing is heavy and awkward... So i'll split it up to be safe.

Good thing is the HEad and Cylinders are not making the journey....Mike Rieck did them both up and their in bags all ready to be bolted up... So they're safe..

I'll look into the oil pump kits as that will be something I'll put my attention to now. Thanks for the help.
1978 CB750K
1978 CB750F super sport
2005 Sportster 1208

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #104 on: January 17, 2017, 01:00:41 PM »
It is Elan who sells the oil pump rebuild kits and he runs auctions for them on ebay.
Yes, Messener motors is working on a replacement rotor for the 750 pump...
I believe he has prototypes built and is gearing up to test the replacement rotor.
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #105 on: January 17, 2017, 01:57:24 PM »
It is Elan who sells the oil pump rebuild kits and he runs auctions for them on ebay.
Yes, Messener motors is working on a replacement rotor for the 750 pump...
I believe he has prototypes built and is gearing up to test the replacement rotor.

Yes, that's Elan. Sells here and on eBay.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #106 on: January 17, 2017, 02:34:03 PM »
IINM Elan was looking into Kawi oil pumps from the same manufacturer where the rotors were pretty close to the 750s and just needed some milling to make them work. There is a thread where he detailed all his findings somewhere around here. Billy B is always a good source for near new parts, which is what my K3 is getting (spotless rotors).

Offline BLAC

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #107 on: January 18, 2017, 01:14:55 AM »
I sent everything but the bottom end cases to Nils to be blasted before Mike gets them to perform his magic on them! 

I am scared to split the cases and deal with the everything in there, I'm not experienced with these motors and I think it might be a little advanced for me...

I can't wait to get the stuff back from Nils!  Make sure to post pics  ;)
If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's an electrical problem... If it's an electrical problem, it's Cal's problem.

*2005 Yamaha R6 (sold)
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*2014 BMW S1000RR (sold)
*2010 Ducati Streetfighter S
*1978 CB550 Restomod Build
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http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,154614.0.html

Offline calj737

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #108 on: January 18, 2017, 04:06:21 AM »
You are replacing your primary and cam chains, right?  ???
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline Ericcb750

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #109 on: January 18, 2017, 05:56:53 AM »
Hey Blac, Yeah I"m super excited to see them and to re-build a perfectly clean engine.  WIll definitely post photos.

Cal, Yes I have a brand new Primary tensioner and HD Primary chains from Classic Cycle City (stupid expensive but amazing)....Also have an HD Cam chain and brand new full cam chain tensioner setup going into the motor. All new bottom end bearings and Rod bearings, New Clutch .... Pretty much  the entire motor is brand spanking new, except for the transmission which is in beautiful shape.

I am going to get one of those oil pump kits to re-build the pump so I know that is in tip top shape. I'll measure up the rotors to be sure they're within spec also.

This is my first bottom end over haul so seriously, if anyone had any advice or things that I maybe should look for or do while I have it down this far, please let me know. Thanks guys, you're the best.
1978 CB750K
1978 CB750F super sport
2005 Sportster 1208

Offline GV1390

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #110 on: January 18, 2017, 08:28:34 AM »
so seriously, if anyone had any advice

Bourbon, lots of it!
93' GSX-R1100, 78' CB550, 71' CL350, 71’ CB500 & 02' ZRX1200R.

Offline calj737

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #111 on: January 18, 2017, 09:50:08 AM »
Cal, Yes I have a brand new Primary tensioner and HD Primary chains from Classic Cycle City (stupid expensive but amazing)....Also have an HD Cam chain and brand new full cam chain tensioner setup going into the motor. All new bottom end bearings and Rod bearings, New Clutch .... Pretty much  the entire motor is brand spanking new, except for the transmission which is in beautiful shape.
Sorry, Eric. My last inquiry was for BLAC.  :) His statement about not splitting the cases within your thread where you were "all-out" confused the issue.
 :)
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #112 on: January 18, 2017, 10:17:38 AM »
so seriously, if anyone had any advice

Bourbon, lots of it!

Yes, but only AFTER you put your wrenches down.  ;D

Sounds like you're covering most of the bases. You should have a great engine.
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline BLAC

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #113 on: January 18, 2017, 10:23:08 AM »
You are replacing your primary and cam chains, right?  ???

PM incoming  :-[
If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's an electrical problem... If it's an electrical problem, it's Cal's problem.

*2005 Yamaha R6 (sold)
*2014 Ducati Streetfighter 848 (sold)
*2014 BMW S1000RR (sold)
*2010 Ducati Streetfighter S
*1978 CB550 Restomod Build
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http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,154614.0.html

Offline Ericcb750

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #114 on: January 31, 2017, 01:25:21 AM »
Got some open heart surgery started ..., everything in the oil pump is in amazing shape but either way I will get one of the kits and put in all New o-rings and seals.... what do you guys think about the springs in the kit? They are probably fine I just want to try and make sure the pressure relief and the pressure in general will not be affected... thanks again for all your help... hope you guys are all doing well....
1978 CB750K
1978 CB750F super sport
2005 Sportster 1208

Offline BLAC

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #115 on: February 02, 2017, 04:11:28 PM »
not too bad? Im doing mine next weekend
If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's an electrical problem... If it's an electrical problem, it's Cal's problem.

*2005 Yamaha R6 (sold)
*2014 Ducati Streetfighter 848 (sold)
*2014 BMW S1000RR (sold)
*2010 Ducati Streetfighter S
*1978 CB550 Restomod Build
*1974 CB550 Monoshock build
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,154614.0.html

Offline Davez134

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #116 on: February 04, 2017, 07:46:27 AM »

This is my first bottom end over haul so seriously, if anyone had any advice or things that I maybe should look for or do while I have it down this far, please let me know. Thanks guys, you're the best.

Read Hondaman's book, and measure/inspect everything mentioned in there. Replace Primary and cam chains. Also what gave me peace of mind when doing my bottom end for the first time was to dry fit the cases together and make sure trans and crank moved smoothly before mating together with the Hondabond. I think i still have many pictures for reference if you ever need.

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #117 on: February 04, 2017, 11:19:01 AM »
Eric,  looks great and entirely sound to make sure the oil's heart is in top shape.  But, unless bikes are different from cars the pressure often is very dependent, if not largely dependent, upon the bearings to have proper clearances to maintain oil pressure throughout the pressure feed areas.
I bet you are getting excited to see things moving towards assembly.  I would be...reflect on your starting photos to see how far it has come. I would also be excited to see the results of JMR head porting magic.  It would be really interesting to feel and see the improvements across the powerband Mike has tapped into if a standard 836 build with no porting work would compare in a riding test. I think it would be seen in every aspect of operation, from warm up and starting to idling and going between stops in city traffic to highway riding and passing and twisty mountain roads, etc.  It might have a sweet spot as most ported heads will favor a range of operation, but there will be overall performance and operation benefits throughout the entire range. (Well, maybe a bit less low end perf on a bike designed for racing where top rpm band operation is the majority of operation...
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline Ericcb750

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #118 on: February 04, 2017, 03:08:41 PM »
BIG UPDATE, just got off the phone with Nils!! My entire lower end, carbs, & Koni shocks are on it's way to resto cycle for the vapior blast!!! Been a long time coming but now it's official!


Hey Blac, getting all the pump goodies apart was not bad... just wanted to make sure there was nothing weird going on in there, if you can, watch Dino (hack-a-week) videos... I didn't know if our 750 pump is ssifferent than the 550??

Also thanks for the info Raf on the bearings.... I was thinking the same thing so I actually already have all brand spankin new Honda bearing shells for the crank and the correct ones for the cycle x super rods...all based on Honda's manual....

Also got a lighter weight heavy duty primary chain from classic cycle city per Mike's recommendations and HD cam chains. New Honda tensioners going in both primary and cam chain...

The very last piece of the puzzle is gettin my parts back all nice and clean and putting this beast together!!!

Really appreciate all the help and support along the way.

And I am 100% going to do that with the top/bottom cases to make sure it all works correctly! I honestly did not think of that but it's an awesome idea!!

Hey Dave,
If possible can you email me some of your photos?  I have all 3 manuals and hondaman's book, and I took some photos but I could always learn from the guys who have been there done that.. thanks

1978 CB750K
1978 CB750F super sport
2005 Sportster 1208

Offline Ericcb750

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #119 on: February 04, 2017, 06:13:16 PM »
Here's a close up on the stick primary chain vs the CCC hd chain...
1978 CB750K
1978 CB750F super sport
2005 Sportster 1208

Offline BLAC

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #120 on: February 07, 2017, 10:59:00 AM »
what brand and where did you get the chains? I was going to ask Mike about that as well, but it sounds like you already got word from the man  ;D
If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's an electrical problem... If it's an electrical problem, it's Cal's problem.

*2005 Yamaha R6 (sold)
*2014 Ducati Streetfighter 848 (sold)
*2014 BMW S1000RR (sold)
*2010 Ducati Streetfighter S
*1978 CB550 Restomod Build
*1974 CB550 Monoshock build
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,154614.0.html

Offline Ericcb750

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #121 on: February 07, 2017, 11:25:14 AM »
Hey Brian, I got my HD Cam chain from Yamiya in Japan.... It's the oval link style (as opposed to the peanut style).... Definitely a bit beefier, I also got a chain from APE thinking they may still have had the Tsubaki chains.... unfortunately they didn't but also sent me a DID (but it was the peanut style) but apparently most people have never really had issues with cam chains of a good brand (from what i've heard)....

The Primary Chain.... I got lucky (if you could call it that), Mike had picked one up and said "they have 1 set left" .... it was stupid expensive , i'm kind of embarrassed to say how much but man, they are literally going to last forever, they're lighter and much stronger than the stock chains. From Classic Cycle City (out of Germany).... I'll send you some info in a text man.....

I apologize but i'm not very well versed on the 550 stuff so another member (or Mike) would definitely be able to help you out a bit there.
1978 CB750K
1978 CB750F super sport
2005 Sportster 1208

Offline Ericcb750

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #122 on: February 07, 2017, 11:26:59 AM »
Here you go buddy

http://www.classiccyclecity.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=48&pid=1509#top_display_media

Scroll through the photos & Info. THey're really top notch.
1978 CB750K
1978 CB750F super sport
2005 Sportster 1208

Offline BLAC

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #123 on: February 07, 2017, 12:17:14 PM »
Looks like all 750 parts, bah humbug!

Thanks, Ill keep looking around.  Good luck with your assembly!  I get my cases back tonight and am a little nervous to start putting stuff back together  ???
If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's an electrical problem... If it's an electrical problem, it's Cal's problem.

*2005 Yamaha R6 (sold)
*2014 Ducati Streetfighter 848 (sold)
*2014 BMW S1000RR (sold)
*2010 Ducati Streetfighter S
*1978 CB550 Restomod Build
*1974 CB550 Monoshock build
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,154614.0.html

Offline Ericcb750

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Re: 1978 CB750 - Re-born a 836cc Wiseco JMR Ported Hot Rod
« Reply #124 on: February 07, 2017, 12:19:32 PM »
Hey I'll put out the feelers for some info on the 550 chains, I'm sure there are HD chains that are made....

Can you shoot me a few photos when you get your cases? Mine are on the plane now en route. So excited for them!!!
1978 CB750K
1978 CB750F super sport
2005 Sportster 1208