Topic: Transistorized ignition, points style. First ones are ready!

[CrisPDuk]

I often meet people who think they are wizards, but I believe they made up their own criteria. 

You get to meet quite few like that in myline of work Mark

But usually the only criteria I can see that qualifies them is the fact they are married to Witches

And you'd reckon that if they were true Wizards, they'd be able turn those witches into buxom wenches, ha ha! (But by the same methodology, I've just confirmed that I am, in fact, no wizard, boo hoo!)

Terry, as I've always said to my son (much to his Mother's dismay ), there is only one golden rule when it comes to women;

Deep down they are all the same, so if you really must have one, make sure you get one with good lungs

[CrisPDuk]

By the way, to set your mind at rest Terry, using that reckoning method, I'm no Wizard either

[Terry in Australia]

Terry, as I've always said to my son (much to his Mother's dismay ), there is only one golden rule when it comes to women;

Deep down they are all the same, so if you really must have one, make sure you get one with good lungs

Thus allowing them to stay underwater long enough to prove that they aren't made of wood, and therefore aren't witches! Thanks for that Crispy, I understand!    

[jonbuoy]

Hey, How tricky do you guys think it  would  be to include a rev limiter with the electronic ignition and maybe a tacho output pulse?

[HondaMan]

Hey, How tricky do you guys think it  would  be to include a rev limiter with the electronic ignition and maybe a tacho output pulse?

Well, it's probably out of the realm of a sub - $100 unit...

[Terry in Australia]

Did you finally get it past the post office nazi's Mark? Should I be standing by my mail-box batting away interlopers who would covet this ignition, like Charlie and Geoff? ha ha, Cheers, Terry.

[Patrick]

Don't be worrying about your mail for a while, Terry. I've had it all forwarded here to Texas until the package arrives. You get some mighty interesting periodicals.....


Patrick

[750goes]

Dear Terry,

I'm waiting patiently as always.......

[jonbuoy]

Hey, How tricky do you guys think it  would  be to include a rev limiter with the electronic ignition and maybe a tacho output pulse?

Well, it's probably out of the realm of a sub - $100 unit...

Hi Hondaman, 

Any chance I could have a copy of the circuit diagram or is this an unfair question? 

Cheers

John

[HondaMan]

Did you finally get it past the post office nazi's Mark? Should I be standing by my mail-box batting away interlopers who would covet this ignition, like Charlie and Geoff? ha ha, Cheers, Terry.

Yes! 
I sent it Monday. I'm hoping you'll get it this week.
When you do, here's what I suggest:
If you have old points installed, try it first with the condensors still attached. This will help suppress the tendency to have multiple short sparks prior to the "real" spark that would otherwise happen if the points are burnt.

If you have new points, try it with the condensors disconnected.

You will have to push the little ground lug in through the points' grommet, because I already crimped it onto the ground wire when I tested it here. Pick a screw in the points plate and ground it there.

You might have to change the connectors on the ends of your bike's harness at the junctions, so I sent extra connectors. If you change both the ones from the coils to the points and the ones from the points to the coils, they can swap back and forth with or without the I-ignition (that's what I'm thinking of registering as the name of it: "I-ignition", since it was developed on the Internet.    

The black wire and it's 3-way junction should plug into the double-coil (Honda) female connector under the tank, but it may distort the connector somewhat on that side. This will leave you with 1 new larger female bullet and one Honda, so you may have to change one on a Dyna coil. If your Dynas are like mine, they have a 1/4" wide flat connector on them, so you could make a little jumper from that to the new male bullet, using that with the ignition module.

Install the module from the left side of the bike: there should be room to work under there.

Let me know how it goes. I am particularly interested in the performance under load at higher RPM. I haven't tried that with my bike (it's still iced in), so let me know if it's steady or if it stumbles. There will probably be multiple sparks at low RPM, which you will not notice, which should drop out around 3000-4000 RPM. If they remain, there may be sputtering above 5500 RPM or so, so watch for that.

[HondaMan]

Hey, How tricky do you guys think it  would  be to include a rev limiter with the electronic ignition and maybe a tacho output pulse?

Well, it's probably out of the realm of a sub - $100 unit...

Hi Hondaman, 

Any chance I could have a copy of the circuit diagram or is this an unfair question? 

Cheers

John

The answer to that really depends on what you plan to do with it. It's now a copyrighted circuit with my company (TTI), so if you made more than one for yourself, or sold it to someone, that becomes a problem. Originally, I thought I would just publish it here, but I have so much $$$ invested in it now, I need to find some way to recover that cost. It's surprising how far $1000 doesn't go anymore!   

[Terry in Australia]

Woohoo! Will do Mark, the "sputtering" thing at high RPM under load is interesting, that's what it's doing now with the Dyna S and Dyna coils, so I'm gonna swap out the coils this afternoon with some "known" Honda coils just to see if that's the problem, or if it's the carburettors. It goes like a rocket up to say, 5000 RPM, then misses and farts like a BSA on a rainy day! No biggie if it is carbs though, I was gonna fit some F2 carbs anyway, so once I've swapped the coils and test ridden it,  they're next, ha ha! Cheers, Terry. 

[CrisPDuk]

Looks like you've definitely got a sale here Mark Just need to see how the idiot trial goes

When you get round to marketing it make sure the installation instructions are written using little words,and include big pictures with lots of colour.
It's hard to believe I know, but some of us aren't as smart as (are even dumber than?) Terry

[Terry in Australia]

Looks like you've definitely got a sale here Mark Just need to see how the idiot trial goes

When you get round to marketing it make sure the installation instructions are written using little words,and include big pictures with lots of colour.
It's hard to believe I know, but some of us aren't as smart as (are even dumber than?) Terry

That's a bit harsh, crispy, we'll have to get together one day, so I can give you the opportunity to say that to me in person, you big brave Pommy wanker! Cheers, Terry. 

[CrisPDuk]

Which bit's harsh

The bit where I'm admitting to not being as smart as you

Based on your posts on this and other threads, I'm more than happy to admit it, half of what you and Mark are discussing could just as well be written in Greek as far as my ability to comprehend it goes


As for the being a brave pommie wanker, two out of three ain't bad. I never trust any man who tells me he isn't a wanker, because he's a liar



Just out of interest, what part of Oz are you in? I'm over Melbourne way later this year for work Somehow I've managed to arrange it to coincide with the MotoGP round on Phillip Island

[Terry in Australia]

Which bit's harsh

The bit where I'm admitting to not being as smart as you

Based on your posts on this and other threads, I'm more than happy to admit it, half of what you and Mark are discussing could just as well be written in Greek as far as my ability to comprehend it goes


As for the being a brave pommie wanker, two out of three ain't bad. I never trust any man who tells me he isn't a wanker, because he's a liar



Just out of interest, what part of Oz are you in? I'm over Melbourne way later this year for work Somehow I've managed to arrange it to coincide with the MotoGP round on Phillip Island

Alright mate, I thought you were being uncharacteristically rude to me with phrases like "Idiot Test" etc, which I don't remember coining, so it must have been that the booze is making me overly-sensitive, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Indeed, masturbation is a common pastime, but being a "wanker" is in a class of it's own...............

I live in Mill Park, a northern suburb of Melbourne, and work at the army base at Puckapunyal, about 60 miles north of Melbourne. if you're coming over around GP time send me a PM and we'll get together, I've only been to the GP once and didn't like it much, it was a spectacle rather than a race meet, full of wankers who were more interested in being seen at the GP, than enjoying bike racing.

Having said that, I guess I could be persuaded to go again, but as you're probably aware, it is very expensive, particularly if you elect to pay for a grandstand seat, which is probably the only way you'll see any racing, as the crowd pretty much covers the fence all the way around the track, so you'll be looking at the back of several thousand heads.

The "World Superbikes" is on this weekend, but I haven't been to that event either for much the same reasons, I like to go to Phillip Island for the "Classic" in January every year, and any other classic and post classic racing, because I'm more interested in those bikes. I actually met and shook hands with Giacomo Agostino and Barry Sheene at the classic a few years ago, and that was very cool indeed. Cheers, Terry.

[CrisPDuk]

No offence was intended Terry, I promise. You sure it wasn't lack of booze making you over sensitive though, I know it does me on a Friday night

Mill Park is not far from where my sister-in law lives from memory, I'll have to look her address tomorrow.  The company I'm visiting is in Rowville, which I think is East Melbourne?



I'm definitely over for the GP, because, one; it makes sense while I'm in this part of the world, and two; compared to the UK circuits it's cheap.  So I'll drop you a PM nearer the time.

PS: Grandstand seat, you've got to be kidding There's only the slightest drop of Scottish blood in me, but it makes itself known if I try spending money  

[Terry in Australia]

No offence was intended Terry, I promise. You sure it wasn't lack of booze making you over sensitive though, I know it does me on a Friday night

Mill Park is not far from where my sister-in law lives from memory, I'll have to look her address tomorrow.  The company I'm visiting is in Rowville, which I think is East Melbourne?



I'm definitely over for the GP, because, one; it makes sense while I'm in this part of the world, and two; compared to the UK circuits it's cheap.  So I'll drop you a PM nearer the time.

PS: Grandstand seat, you've got to be kidding There's only the slightest drop of Scottish blood in me, but it makes itself known if I try spending money  

No worries Crispy, Rowville is about about 90 minutes drive from here, I worked in Rowville for a year or so when I first retired from the army. The company I worked for (Kingston Plant Hire) built the golf course there (Kingston Links) and the shopping centre, industrial estate etc, so I know the area quite well. I'll look forward to catching up to you around GP time, I might even let you ride one of my bikes to the Island, if I haven't sold them all by then and bought a Harley, ha ha! Cheers, Terry.   

[HondaMan]

Woohoo! Will do Mark, the "sputtering" thing at high RPM under load is interesting, that's what it's doing now with the Dyna S and Dyna coils, so I'm gonna swap out the coils this afternoon with some "known" Honda coils just to see if that's the problem, or if it's the carburettors. It goes like a rocket up to say, 5000 RPM, then misses and farts like a BSA on a rainy day! No biggie if it is carbs though, I was gonna fit some F2 carbs anyway, so once I've swapped the coils and test ridden it,  they're next, ha ha! Cheers, Terry. 

That symptom sounds familiar. When I put mine back together this summer, it did the same thing: ran like never before to 5500-6000 RPM, then sputtered and coughed, blackening the plugs in less than 100 miles. The culprit was those hard-to-clean (like, impossible) air passages that go from the air horn to the top of the main jet holder. The tiny air passage starts in the back as a small brass hole, which goes forward about 1/4", then turns down toward the throat, then turns forward to reach the threaded tube where you screw in the main jet's holder (aka "emulsifier tube").

I finally got them cleaned out by inserting a "mechanic's wire" into the brass hole and working it forward to the threaded casting, then I dragged the wire back and forth about 10 times. I had to remove the main jet holder to see the wire get all the way in, and then it still was hard to see, but I could see the crud building up from pushing the wire back and forth. After about 10 strokes, I pulled the wire out, washed the passage out with carb spray, and did it again. All 4 carbs. And, I had to do it 2 more times over the next week before it finally started running right. I think those tiny passages get corroded, and the wire was "drilling" out the corrosion, slowly.

It finally worked, though, fixing the problem. I think I put up a post here somewhere, with pictures. The difference was immediate.
There are tiny little brass caps at the air horn that could be drilled out to do this directly, but I don't have any new ones to put back into the holes, and I didn't want to drill & tap all 4 with 00-80 setscrews, or something like it.

[HondaMan]

OK, here's my list so far. If you want one and you're not on this list, drop me a PM or something so I can include you with the next build in March (oh, it is March...).

1. Terry Prendergast (he has one enroute)
2. Hcritz (he's testing next, some time this week it's enroute).
3. Kghost (you're tester #3).
4. JayB
5. Scott Benjamin
6. Steveko, Australia
7. 750goes
8. dusterdude
9. Patrick
10. Jaknight
11. Dennis
12. BrianJ
13. Big_Jim
14. Frank T
15. kaysystems
16. kettlesd
17. hotrod101
18. Klark Kent
19. jevfro
20. cosmo
21. oldman prof
22. ChrisPduk
23. jtb, Birmingham

PM me with the quantity you want from this "build" and send me your addresses. If some of you are in AUS, maybe I'll send a box full to Terry and he can redistribute, because I can tell it's expensive to ship there, already. Same for you guys in England.

The cost will be less than $100 US, probably less than $85, and I won't hold you to it, I just need an idea how many. The more there will be, the less it will cost. If I can build "big enough", we might get them down toward $50 apiece.

If you're only planning to run Honda coils, let me know that, too. Those will be first production while I work out a possible heat sinking option for the Dyna coiled bikes (depending on how Terry's testing goes).

I'd like to get a good count in the next week or so, then I can order circuit boards and parts.

[jonbuoy]

Hey, How tricky do you guys think it  would  be to include a rev limiter with the electronic ignition and maybe a tacho output pulse?

Well, it's probably out of the realm of a sub - $100 unit...

Hi Hondaman, 

Any chance I could have a copy of the circuit diagram or is this an unfair question? 

Cheers

John

The answer to that really depends on what you plan to do with it. It's now a copyrighted circuit with my company (TTI), so if you made more than one for yourself, or sold it to someone, that becomes a problem. Originally, I thought I would just publish it here, but I have so much $$$ invested in it now, I need to find some way to recover that cost. It's surprising how far $1000 doesn't go anymore!   

Ah Fair enough then understandable that you want keep hold of it - I thought it may have been an old everyday electronics circuit or something.  I wasn't planning to be making more than one,  as it is its your baby.  I was just curious to see if I could make a tacho drive pulse so I can ditch my knackered old tacho and drive and maybe a  limiter to combat the odd hamfisted gearchange I might do.

Cheers

John

[Terry in Australia]

Aha, Jonbuoy, you're a bloody Kiwi!, Boo hiss! 

Watch him Mark, it's a well known fact that Kiwi's are all dodgy bastaards, so if you weaken and send him the plans for your ignition, it won't be long before he's flooded the free world with poor quality knock-offs, manufactured by former Lucas NZ technicians doing time in Wellington prison for sheep-related offences, ha ha! Cheers, Terry.

[Terry in Australia]

Woohoo! Will do Mark, the "sputtering" thing at high RPM under load is interesting, that's what it's doing now with the Dyna S and Dyna coils, so I'm gonna swap out the coils this afternoon with some "known" Honda coils just to see if that's the problem, or if it's the carburettors. It goes like a rocket up to say, 5000 RPM, then misses and farts like a BSA on a rainy day! No biggie if it is carbs though, I was gonna fit some F2 carbs anyway, so once I've swapped the coils and test ridden it,  they're next, ha ha! Cheers, Terry. 

That symptom sounds familiar. When I put mine back together this summer, it did the same thing: ran like never before to 5500-6000 RPM, then sputtered and coughed, blackening the plugs in less than 100 miles. The culprit was those hard-to-clean (like, impossible) air passages that go from the air horn to the top of the main jet holder. The tiny air passage starts in the back as a small brass hole, which goes forward about 1/4", then turns down toward the throat, then turns forward to reach the threaded tube where you screw in the main jet's holder (aka "emulsifier tube").

I finally got them cleaned out by inserting a "mechanic's wire" into the brass hole and working it forward to the threaded casting, then I dragged the wire back and forth about 10 times. I had to remove the main jet holder to see the wire get all the way in, and then it still was hard to see, but I could see the crud building up from pushing the wire back and forth. After about 10 strokes, I pulled the wire out, washed the passage out with carb spray, and did it again. All 4 carbs. And, I had to do it 2 more times over the next week before it finally started running right. I think those tiny passages get corroded, and the wire was "drilling" out the corrosion, slowly.

It finally worked, though, fixing the problem. I think I put up a post here somewhere, with pictures. The difference was immediate.
There are tiny little brass caps at the air horn that could be drilled out to do this directly, but I don't have any new ones to put back into the holes, and I didn't want to drill & tap all 4 with 00-80 setscrews, or something like it.

That's probably it Mark, it wasn't my Dyna 3 ohm coils, I took them off and installed some good Honda coils I had on my F2, what a disappointment they were, the bike's overall performance just felt flat? Anyway, I took it for a ride and the "miss" was still there, so it had to be the carbs. I rebuilt them 2 years ago, which entailed stripping them completely and beadblasting the bodies, so it's quite possible the passages that you described are blocked with glass beads!

Anyway, I'd had enough of those carbs, so I ditched them and installed some F2 carbs. The result was spectacular, the bike now rockets forward like my GS1000, and with the added benefit of the accelerator pump there are no flat spots now, only turbine smooth acceleration, beautiful! Cheers, Terry. 

[jonbuoy]

Aha, Jonbuoy, you're a bloody Kiwi!, Boo hiss! 

Watch him Mark, it's a well known fact that Kiwi's are all dodgy bastaards, so if you weaken and send him the plans for your ignition, it won't be long before he's flooded the free world with poor quality knock-offs, manufactured by former Lucas NZ technicians doing time in Wellington prison for sheep-related offences, ha ha! Cheers, Terry.

He he, busted.  Ive been thinking about going to join all the other kiwis in OZ, I hear sheep bothering is still legal over there? 

John

[CrisPDuk]

Just the one for me at the moment Mark

How much the fleet expands is currently the subject of delicate negotiations with the powers that be



PS, Once you've got a comprehensive list, I'm more than happy to act as UK distributor too if needs be.