Author Topic: IDK Numero Dos - 1975 Honda CB400F (Read 66200 times)

marting100 · « **Reply #25 on:** August 20, 2016, 07:37:41 AM »

Hi! The same thing happen to me with that stupid bolt last year. I did everyrhing to take it out, grab it did not work. I ended up drilling the remaining out and using lots of penatrating oil, going slow trying to get most of the metal filing out. Made some new treads and putting a plug bolt in the hole with a copper washer. The good thing about that spot in the motor is that there is not a great amount of oil circulation in that area. Since I did not want to open the case, I cross my fingers and hope for what ever was left inside went down in the oil pan and stayed there. I made a bolt to replace the #177 in the drawing that allow to push the #155 rod and move the shoe that tight the belt. If the horse shoe tensioner is not stuck the new screw will work and you will know when you very slowly turn it while the motor is running, the soud of the slapping chain will change. Be very carefull not to tighten the bolt too much, go slow. If the shoe is jam and not moving i.e. Not making the bad cam chain sound go away, well you are SOL and will need to open up that motor. When I did my oil change at the end of last season there was a little bit of metal shaving in the pan but not much. Everything is working great since, it unlikely for the shaving to pass the oil pump screen and to make sure you can put a magnetic drain plug bolt in the pan. The real repair will be done when ever I will open up that motor. For now it's working very well, just a pain to adjust, easier when the front motor mounts are removed. Good luck!!
M

minimo · « **Reply #26 on:** August 20, 2016, 09:51:20 AM »

That's awesome, marting100! But that almost sounds like the nightmare I'm about to embark on. I would be up for opening up the crankcase but only if 219 being stuck won't prevent me from popping the lower part of the case... In other words, if 219 has broken off to leave tension on the chain then I'm kind of screwed, right? If this is the case then drilling out the bolt might be the best solution?

It's difficult to judge from the diagram but what exactly does bolt 219 give/release tension to? To what surface?

I see that 55 mates with the angled flat of the horseshoe. So, does 219 just poke directly onto the shaft part of 55 to give that tension and to keep it from backing out and slackening the tensioner?

strynboen · « **Reply #27 on:** August 20, 2016, 12:42:15 PM »

no 219 is the Lock bolt.(.tension is ONLY komming from the spring.)
.177 are just a plug to close for oil kommoing aut..mine modifikation is use a modd 177 as press direkt at the shaft..help the spring tension..but 219 still need to funktion..to Lock after adjusting are done..the 219 can be modd to a bigger threds 8 mm..so a nev bigger 8 mm thred can be made in the block..

marting100 · « **Reply #28 on:** August 20, 2016, 03:39:53 PM »

This hole system was over design by Honda and not really working. 219 actually does push on the springs that are over the 55 part. By releasing 219 the system was suppose to auto adjust the tension but it does not work very well. Most of the time the shoe 49 get stuck. So drill out 219 (do what ever it takes to take it out like I said in the other post) and replace it by a plug bolt. It doe not need to adjust or press on anything anymore. The new adjustment will be done from the 117 bolt hole. Using this new location for cam bolt adjustment will allow the bolt to press directly on shaft 55 and move the shoe 49. You will have to open the case only if the shoe 49 does not move while you turn that new bolt in 117 placement to lower the cam chain noise. You can make your own new cam bolt lock or purchase it from the web, 4into1.com do have one but out of stock every time I check so I made my own.

cheers!
M

minimo · « **Reply #29 on:** August 20, 2016, 05:11:34 PM »

Cool cool cool. Thanks, strynboen and marting100.

Yes, this really does seem like an over design on Honda's part.

marting100, so the 177 bolt you made was then longer than the stock? Theoretically, can I get a longer bolt wih the same thread and add a nut and washer to lock the position, kind of like the rear wheel adjustment bolts?

marting100 · « **Reply #30 on:** August 20, 2016, 05:16:54 PM »

You got it! You make a new 177 with nut to lock it. Shave the treads at the end of the new bolt (7-8 of them) to make a rod.
Cheers!
M

marting100 · « **Reply #31 on:** August 20, 2016, 05:24:24 PM »

Also, stick a srew diver or something in hole (177) to measure roughly how long your new locking cam bolt need to be to touch that 55 rod.

strynboen · « **Reply #32 on:** August 21, 2016, 07:20:03 AM »

the new adjuster can be like this...only need to be machined a bit in the end to fit dovn and push the shaft..6 mm in the end is fine..and 5-10 mm long the sylendric end is 6#10 ..use a 8 mm umbrake/or six head,, as start point os a good start..
it can be done more simpel..dont think oil leak is a big problem..so the o ring..and kobber disc..is prob overkill

minimo · « **Reply #33 on:** August 21, 2016, 08:19:41 PM »

That's a beautiful part, strynboen.

minimo · « **Reply #34 on:** September 06, 2016, 08:15:02 PM »

Going back to this float height trick, strynboen.
Do you put the air nozzle on the main fuel line or attach a fuel line to each individual carb as you check them one by one?

Quote from: strynboen on August 03, 2016, 03:13:58 AM

nov use a extern tank..and test for overflow.....before put them back on the bike..
..its easy to fix a problem now...and dont ruin engine paint..vhen you have the Black overflow lines on..its not posibel to see the one vho flote ,,so test vitaut lines..
on the Photo i put komp air in the fuel line...so i can hear the presise close/open point so i can adjust the float/ fuel valve(i used a regulator to hold the pressure low)

strynboen · « **Reply #35 on:** September 07, 2016, 04:01:24 AM »

yes i just put pressure on the main studs...but use a regulator(.. most air painters have one)..or bay one..they kost nothing
..most small kompressors have one build inn at the one auttake..and one direkt..most air tools need regulated pressure...

hold the karbs upside dovn..the flots are then Automatic closed ..so lift the flot by hand,,to air starts escape. and messure that exact point.is the trix..
there must be pressure to lift the neddel..but not so mutch it blov it up...it take s a few tryes to find exact pressure..
but then you dont have to fight all that fuel inside your shop...the vhole idea of use air..

minimo · « **Reply #36 on:** September 07, 2016, 06:54:12 AM »

I gotta try this. Thanks, strynboen!!

minimo · « **Reply #37 on:** November 11, 2016, 12:10:01 AM »

I think I extracted the broken 219 bolt! But I also think I drilled into the 55 cam chain tensioner push bar oh so slightly - hope that's ok?

Here's a sliver of what was left of the 219 bolt that I was able to yank out, rested alongside a pencil for reference:

Would you say that was about the length? Think I got it out?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

strynboen · « **Reply #38 on:** November 11, 2016, 03:03:28 AM »

that push bar is already machined flat..almost halfvay through..so you have almost drilled through it..but hope it still holds the pressure from adjusting..and to Lock it..the biggest problem is that the new Lock bolt vill find the drilled hole..and senter in it..make the adjusting go back to the old posision....so you need some test to be shure it Works fine.....

marting100 · « **Reply #39 on:** November 11, 2016, 05:39:32 AM »

Nice work! you got it out.... from here I would just plug that hole and use the 177 location for the new cam chain adjustment bolt. That way you wont have to worry about pushing a new cam bolt in the rod that was drilled a little. If the shoe is not seize and the rod is still strong enough you will be fine.
Cheers!
M

MoMo · « **Reply #40 on:** November 11, 2016, 05:45:03 AM »

Quote from: marting100 on November 11, 2016, 05:39:32 AM

Nice work! you got it out.... from here I would just plug that hole and use the 177 location for the new cam chain adjustment bolt. That way you wont have to worry about pushing a new cam bolt in the rod that was drilled a little. If the shoe is not seize and the rod is still strong enough you will be fine.
Cheers!
M

i've done that in the past and had good ,usable results. I used a long, hardened bolt with a lock nut in place of the existing cap

minimo · « **Reply #41 on:** November 11, 2016, 07:41:06 AM »

I'm relieved to read your reactions. Thank you!

Would it also be worth testing, now that I've left a mark on the push bar and before I plug the hole, to take my new/longer adjusting bolt #177 and crank down on it a little to see if the marring I've left moves down a little bit? I figure by doing this I'll know for sure if I've released all of what was left of the lock bolt 219 and that the rod is free to adjust by the tension of the new adjusting bolt 177? IDK, I read somewhere that putting more tension on the horseshoe-looking thing (tensioner arm?) can make it seize and cause all kinds of hurt?

The cam chain tensioner on the 400F is not self-adjusting by loosening like on the CB550, right? Tension is made by tightening the adjustment bolt 177, am I correct?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

strynboen · « **Reply #42 on:** November 11, 2016, 07:53:20 AM »

think you are fine..if you not use the orginal Lock bolt system..there is not any problems..just thek it not bends or Lock up..
on mine i tested the horseshue system vitaut the cylender on pushing vith a schrevdriver dovn on the end..it moving not easy...i needet some force to push..its not a easy moving parts...

marting100 · « **Reply #43 on:** November 11, 2016, 08:20:06 AM »

I see what you mean, you could put the new lock bolt in 177 and see from the hole of 219 if the rod is moving (from your drill mark) or just push on the rod with a screwdriver but like Strynboen said it takes a lot of force to bring that rod down. The easiest way is to push on it with a new locking bolt (from 177) while the motor is running, if the sound changes, the shoe is moving and you are fine.
Just make sure to go slow on it not to over push on that rod or you will get a new sound

from the tensionners (56 and 54) rubbing on that chain.
M

minimo · « **Reply #44 on:** November 11, 2016, 08:32:30 AM »

Thanks, y'all! I'll give pushing down with a screwdriver a shot first...

Next step after plugging the 219 hole and before attempting to turn the engine over, I have the following still to install:

New reg/rec
New battery
New spark plugs & boots
New points + condensers
I'm hoping that the coils are still good - will do a spark test

Still a ways to turn the engine over, but I hope we've crossed a big hurdle here with the tensioner.

Keep y'all posted!

Thanks again!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

minimo · « **Reply #45 on:** November 13, 2016, 09:50:46 AM »

Prepare for lift off!

We have movement on the cam chain tensioning rod! Woohoo!
Plug bolt with Viton (silicone composite) o-ring applied and my fingers are crossed that the plug and adjuster have made a sufficient seal...

Mucho progress today. Thanks to a little help from goldarrow, we were able to swap out the old balls with All Ball tapered bearings in the steering column - smashed my fingers a couple of times while drifting out the races too. Good times.

Say hello to my little friend...

It's a Cognito Moto top triple. Love it. It's so beautifully minimal. Too bad my photos don't quite do it justice here but I feel like this bike is headed in a good direction looks-wise.
Also got on some clip-ons. I'm gonna drill a hole under the left clip-on handle to allow for the bundle of turn signal/headlight wires to come up and out of the top end of the pipe. There's a 400F that Salty Speed Co in Australia have put together that I'm fawning over at the moment

and I love how they were able to pull this one off. Very slick way how they ran the housing of wires through the clip-on bars...

I ran new throttle cables to the freshly cleaned carb system. Installed fresh spark plugs and boots. New battery was also hooked up - aim was to try and get her started up! I fit on a new and humongous looking headlight bucket with some cheap powder coated sheet metal looking brackets. The bucket is HUUUUGE but I'm warming up to it

Attempts to turn the engine over were made but will need to work out some wiring gremlins. I'll be back to report on that. Stay tuned!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

marting100 · « **Reply #46 on:** November 14, 2016, 07:34:51 AM »

nice work! dont worry about the new adj bolt seal, the amount of oil in that area is minimum. It's very unlikely that you will have
some oil leak from that bolt, specially with a nice big seal like that.
Cheers!
M

bill440cars · « **Reply #47 on:** November 14, 2016, 01:11:49 PM »

I have a 400F and will be going through builds like this, if and when I ever get to where I can go into mine. Lots of good info, in these threads.

minimo · « **Reply #48 on:** November 14, 2016, 01:14:31 PM »

Do it, Bill! Document your finds

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

minimo · « **Reply #49 on:** November 15, 2016, 09:27:25 PM »

On my list of things to-do...

Changing my fuses to the new favorite blade-type. Whoopty-doo.
Really, it's just an excuse to feel like I'm doing something to get ahead with this project when in reality I spend more time watching videos like this and drooling:

I would really like to plunk down on a Motogadget MG4002033 - m-Unit V .2 Digital Control Unit Builders Pack with M-button, Cable kit and Motone 2-button and 3-button switches for 7/8" Bars but something within me says to work with what I have to get the bike running first; maybe consider an M-Unit down the line. So I'll try and do that. I'll try and simplify the wiring, as difficult as that is for me. I'll be referring to the ubiquitous illustration that makes the ignition switch the heart of the electrical system and not the battery...

I know there are other gremlins that lie within the system so I'll try to be as systematic as I can - with what patience I have - to strip it back and lay it all out again.

Oh, and here's the switch that I'll be using. It's an Emgo Universal 3-position type. I don't know which way is up and down, but it turns either left (accessories) or right (ignition) from the center (off) position.

Fun times ahead.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

News:

Author Topic: IDK Numero Dos - 1975 Honda CB400F (Read 66200 times)