Author Topic: IDK Numero Dos - 1975 Honda CB400F  (Read 13226 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline minimo

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 942
  • 1977 CB550F 1975 CB400F (in progress)
IDK Numero Dos - 1975 Honda CB400F
« Reply #350 on: October 10, 2018, 07:48:40 am »
Thanks for your insight and expertise, fellas.

calj, I am definitely keeping these Mitutoyo‘s in a safe place

I will try to get proper torque measurements of the rods soon (sans bearings).
I did make an attempt at it but with rod nuts tightened not to spec (but tight) - it was difficult to get a handle on 14 ft-lbs while torquing (especially difficult without a shop vise and a good socket to fit around the nut without slipping - what kinda shop is my living room?). But, to give you some idea, here are those results:

1, 1.3796” = 35.0418mm
2, 1.3769” = 35.9732mm
3, 1.3790” = 35.0266mm
4, 1.4210” = 36.0934mm

Thanks again!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 10:32:31 am by minimo »

Offline MoMo

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,059
  • Ride like you're invisible
Re: IDK Numero Dos - 1975 Honda CB400F
« Reply #351 on: October 10, 2018, 11:26:41 pm »
I included a spare crank and rods with a recent sale to a forum member..  He may be interested in selling...Larry

Offline minimo

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 942
  • 1977 CB550F 1975 CB400F (in progress)
Re: IDK Numero Dos - 1975 Honda CB400F
« Reply #352 on: October 10, 2018, 11:45:43 pm »
An impulse buy on eBay. I hope I made a good choice.
This was advertised thusly and I fell for it. $130.00 USD (included shipping):

Quote
For sale is the crankshaft and connecting rods from a 1972 Honda CB350F. This will fit the following models:
CB350  72 thru 74 (F and F1)
CB400  75 thru 77 F
This crankshaft is in very good condition. There is no abnormal wear. The journals are very good with no grooving nor pitting. The connecting rods spin freely around the crank. The oil seal on each end is good and can be reused. I used the correct tool needed for removal of the rotor from this crankshaft and there is no damage to the threads that for receiving the UBS bolt. The crankshaft bearings are included and look good to be able to reuse. This crankshaft and connecting rods is about as good as you will find in a used crankshaft.

Well, it all looks real good. Certainly better than what I currently have; we shall see.

Doh. And a note that I overlooked: "This seller is currently away until Oct 15, 2018. If you make a purchase, there may be a delay in processing your order."

This means that I'll have to wait at least a week...

Offline minimo

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 942
  • 1977 CB550F 1975 CB400F (in progress)
Re: IDK Numero Dos - 1975 Honda CB400F
« Reply #353 on: October 10, 2018, 11:46:42 pm »
Dah! I probably shoulda waited, eh, MoMo?
Oh well. Thanks for the shout.

Offline minimo

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 942
  • 1977 CB550F 1975 CB400F (in progress)
Re: IDK Numero Dos - 1975 Honda CB400F
« Reply #354 on: October 11, 2018, 10:24:31 pm »
A bit of a concern here with info I pulled from Wikipedia:

Honda CB350
Bore / stroke: 64 mm × 50.6 mm (2.52 in × 1.99 in)

Honda CB400F
Bore / stroke: 51 mm (2.0 in) x 50 mm (2.0 in)

Will a 350 crankshaft work in a 400? Likely to work better vice versa but... crap.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline minimo

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 942
  • 1977 CB550F 1975 CB400F (in progress)
Re: IDK Numero Dos - 1975 Honda CB400F
« Reply #355 on: October 11, 2018, 10:34:07 pm »
An update. The critical distinction is that the crankshaft that I won on eBay is from a 350F. The “F” is always critical.

Honda 350F
Bore / stroke
47 mm × 50 mm (1.9 in × 2.0 in)

Should fit, but how well?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Little_Phil

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 136
Re: IDK Numero Dos - 1975 Honda CB400F
« Reply #356 on: October 12, 2018, 02:00:10 am »
The CB350 (no F) is referring to the twin.
CMSNL list the 350 and 400 four cranks as the same p/n 13300333010 so should be safe.

Offline minimo

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 942
  • 1977 CB550F 1975 CB400F (in progress)
Re: IDK Numero Dos - 1975 Honda CB400F
« Reply #357 on: October 12, 2018, 07:06:21 am »
The CB350 (no F) is referring to the twin.
CMSNL list the 350 and 400 four cranks as the same p/n 13300333010 so should be safe.
Thanks for the confirmation, Lil’Phil


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline minimo

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 942
  • 1977 CB550F 1975 CB400F (in progress)
Re: IDK Numero Dos - 1975 Honda CB400F
« Reply #358 on: October 14, 2018, 12:45:47 pm »
Trying to be a good son - my dad is recovering from eye surgery and I’m filling in on yard work duty. Noticed the robustness and ingenuity of this chain tensioner on his Briggs & Stratton 3HP Original Trimmer...

Eesh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline strynboen

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,672
    • http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=bqssqgm2pmri254ndnjaull2e6&/topic,60973.0.html
Re: IDK Numero Dos - 1975 Honda CB400F
« Reply #359 on: October 15, 2018, 07:45:07 am »
a wooden block vas better..to hold it organic and green
i kan not speak english/but trying!!
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=60973.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144758.0
i hate all this v-w.... vords

Offline minimo

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 942
  • 1977 CB550F 1975 CB400F (in progress)
Re: IDK Numero Dos - 1975 Honda CB400F
« Reply #360 on: October 15, 2018, 01:52:47 pm »
a wooden block vas better..to hold it organic and green
I agree - to keep it ecological. This metal hitting metal business, in runs in my family bloodline.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline minimo

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 942
  • 1977 CB550F 1975 CB400F (in progress)
Re: IDK Numero Dos - 1975 Honda CB400F
« Reply #361 on: October 16, 2018, 09:51:35 pm »
Soon to be bling or paperweights?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline minimo

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 942
  • 1977 CB550F 1975 CB400F (in progress)
IDK Numero Dos - 1975 Honda CB400F
« Reply #362 on: October 19, 2018, 10:00:55 pm »
I got my replacement camshaft/rods. It looks in good condition

Off the bat, here are some readings...

Main Bearing Journals (nothing out of round)

1 - 31.9887
2 - 31.9862
3 - 31.9887
4 - 31.9887
5 - 31.9913

I still have the rods to measure but I want to wait until I have the proper thin-walled socket to remove and torque the nuts and a good vice to keep them held in.

Meanwhile, given the readings above and my case being marked BBBAA, can I determine what bearings I should get from those measurements? Or, do I use my existing bearings to Plastigauge and determine the runout from there as a starting point? The purchase of this replacement crankshaft came with a set of (8) bearings, all in great unmarred condition that are stamped consistently, “D2F-A STD”.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: October 20, 2018, 09:41:28 am by minimo »

Online RAF122S

  • I feel like a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,412
  • SOHC 4 member # 2605
Re: IDK Numero Dos - 1975 Honda CB400F
« Reply #363 on: October 20, 2018, 09:59:44 pm »
Kevin and  Minimo, perfect for that junk crank to use for a man cave lamp.. Mount the base on a old worn out brake rotor  and bolt the crank to it. Fabricate a wire holder for your  lamp shade. A very cool LED light at a local library was these giant rings of aluminum with white pair or white Anodize. And the LED strip lighting was attached to that. Very very cool! So mount an old spoked rim to your crank  and line the painted tube side with the LEDs or a  more friendly design would be to mount the LED tape to the top and bottom and extend the adjustable voltage LED controller  dial with a knob that looks like a knurled speedo knob. Get creative with brass tubing from hobby shop and your soldering gun/iron/torch to
Have two controllers and two switches one for top and one for bottom. Wanna get tricky for the power switches. Repurposed an old jeweled horizontal  dash light set for neutral, high, oil pressure, low beam to have two of the jewels be connected to your oil pressure and neutral lights and use a led to backlight the hi or low beam when you turn on the top or bottom or both LED strips. If you need more space beneath the brake disk use some old gears that are the same height and rivet or cap head socket screw them to expanding sleeves like you find on bar end mirrors to attach the gears securely to the stainless rotor...unless you can weld stainless and the steel in an old gear set. Then you can weld or braze things together... Some heavy high density felt from McMaster Carr for gluing to the bottom of the rotor or gears... Or better yet use your old con rod and a couple others to form outriggers on the rotor to make it more stable.

Mix up some polyurethane with brown coloring to simulate a wet oil coating and spray all the degreased parts after you have them cleaned up. Tape off the journal areas and give them a shot of clear or coating of clear polyurethane. Use oil based urethane instead of water based in case you have a bit of oil not cleaned from a part it might be less apt to destroy the poly coating there. Give it several coats and you could use satin or gloss poly.

Copyright & Trademark Oct 2018 David - RAF122S for Lamp design ideas
All royalties and proceeds from licensed use of this copyright or trademark will go to motorcycling obsession and care and feeding of CB
David stuck in the curvy back roads of "Upper East" TN

Online RAF122S

  • I feel like a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,412
  • SOHC 4 member # 2605
Re: IDK Numero Dos - 1975 Honda CB400F
« Reply #364 on: October 20, 2018, 10:05:27 pm »
Trying to be a good son - my dad is recovering from eye surgery and I’m filling in on yard work duty. Noticed the robustness and ingenuity of this chain tensioner on his Briggs & Stratton 3HP Original Trimmer...

Eesh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Fabrication opportunity to have an adjustable sprocket wheel serve as tensioner in the same chain pitch/size of course. Would be something if it were the same as the 530 on a cb bike.
David stuck in the curvy back roads of "Upper East" TN

Offline minimo

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 942
  • 1977 CB550F 1975 CB400F (in progress)
Re: IDK Numero Dos - 1975 Honda CB400F
« Reply #365 on: October 21, 2018, 01:56:24 am »
Wow, RAF. What reefer are you smokin’ this evening? Cool light idea


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Online RAF122S

  • I feel like a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,412
  • SOHC 4 member # 2605
Re: IDK Numero Dos - 1975 Honda CB400F
« Reply #366 on: October 21, 2018, 03:04:03 am »
Never in my life have I smoked reefer or cigarettes... Really, no joke. Nor eaten reefer...

I have snorkeled a reef in the Caribbean, was fantastic!

David
David stuck in the curvy back roads of "Upper East" TN

Online RAF122S

  • I feel like a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,412
  • SOHC 4 member # 2605
David stuck in the curvy back roads of "Upper East" TN

Offline minimo

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 942
  • 1977 CB550F 1975 CB400F (in progress)
Re: IDK Numero Dos - 1975 Honda CB400F
« Reply #368 on: October 22, 2018, 07:30:43 pm »
So first, the boring but important stuff.
Here are the Plastigauge results of my replacement crankshaft and rods.

Crankshaft Mains
1 - 0.051
2 - 0.051
3 - 0.038~0.051
4 - 0.038~0.051
5 - 0.051

Connecting Rods
1 - 0.038
2 - 0.038~0.051
3 - 0.038
4 - 0.038

Crank main journals
1 - 31.9887
2 - 31.9862
3 - 31.9887
4 - 31.9887
5 - 31.9913

I failed to get proper con rod journal measurements but base on some cursory measurements to check in roundness, the average was 35.0189mm. For this though, I will rely on Plastigauge...

I admit that I’m still not 100% on the bearing/clearance chart but I’m certain that these Plastigauge results are accurate. I’m semi-confident that based on how I’m interpreting Kevin’s explanation of the charts that at least my mains are within spec (“crank mains and big ends should not be more than 32.0mm can go down to 31.97mm... if you’re under 31.97mm crank will need to be replaced”).

That’s all, folks.

Time to button her all up?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

;
Honda