Topic: Manufacturing - Amercian (expensive) of Taiwan (CHEAP) ETHICS

[ElCheapo]

I am working on getting a lot of our favorite fairings, Dunstall, Rickman fairings, ETC all redone in Taiwan.  This will include sidecovers and chin pieces as well as front fairings. With only minor changes it will be free of copyright BS and make no sense in buying the old cracked crap I think.

The question I have is a bit of "American made" ethics (not that there is any) making the product as cheap as possible with the highest quality available.

This means no more chasing for  a set of perfect side covers for the 750 of 550 or 500's. They would be new and every bit as tough as the old ones if not better. Or any other plastic bits ever again...

In the states I could have the parts made for about $35 each on the seats and about the same for side covers - In Taiwan I could have them made for $5-10 or less on average.

This means to you a set of perfect side covers would be $100 or less out the door or $150 or more or both from American manufacturers..

If I can get this all set up making your own glass seat would almost make no sense.

Let me know what you guys think in this. I will be making a trip to Taiwan to meet with prospective manufacturers within the next year to get things right.

Have passport wil travel.. 

[Raul CB750K1]

Holy #$%*!!!! I had written a long reply and something happened and lost all the text!!!


Long story short: forget about Asia. Even when I don't have anything about looking for the cheapest price as long as the quality meet your standards, most of asian countries doesn't respect human rights or basic labour rights. But furthermore, as soon as you start to make profit out of it, they will start to offer your parts for half the price and will kick you out of business. If somebody have the whim of those parts, they can pay the price.


What amazes me is how multi-activity you are. You don't lose any business opportunity, do you? Maybe it have to do with your sniping training.... 

Raul

[Uncle Ernie]

Bring a really good international lawyer with you. 

[tramp]

gotta be truthfull
would rather buy american made than taiwan
living in mich ,seen what overseas can do to the local economy

[CrisPDuk]

gotta be truthfull
would rather buy american made than taiwan
living in mich ,seen what overseas can do to the local economy

There are two reasons overseas trade knocked the floor out of your local economy, the asians can do it cheaper, and they can do it better.
I work for a UK run Thai company that designs, builds & installs plant all over Asia, and as part of a licencing agreement we have with an un-named US company, we have to buy a variety of fabrications from them. To be frank the quality is p!ss poor, not a patch on what we can make or source locally.

Before you start laying into me, I'm not being anti-american here, I saw the same thing happen in the UK car, bike & appliance industries twenty years ago and they deserved it. It's taken longer to happen in the US (mainly due to a stronger sense of national pride) but unless business attitudes change it will. It's happening again building trade in the UK at the moment with the Polish immigrants, they've gone over to do a fair day's work for a fair day's pay, and the English builders don't like it, because they've taken the p!ss with their prices and tardiness for years and now they're losing business.

[Glenn Stauffer]

You'd have to get them down to $25 each to interest me.  Explain the math here - if you are having them made at $5-$10 each, why would they sell for $100 a pair?  Forget Taiwann, go to China and have them made for 1/3 and then sell the pair for $50-$60.

[scondon]

You'd have to get them down to $25 each to interest me. Explain the math here - if you are having them made at $5-$10 each, why would they sell for $100 a pair? Forget Taiwann, go to China and have them made for 1/3 and then sell the pair for $50-$60.

In the states I could have the parts made for about $35 each on the seats and about the same for side covers - In Taiwan I could have them made for $5-10 or less on average.

This means to you a set of perfect side covers would be $100 or less out the door or $150 or more or both from American manufacturers..

Glenn, I read this as $25-$30 each to be manufactured overseas. When all is said and done I would think that $100/pair would be a reasonable cost after mark-up, especially since there would probably be a low volume actually sold. Mark-up could go down when volume sales go up, right 'Cheapo

[ElCheapo]

First: Naturally with volume sales the prices would go down. I do honestly believe we can beat the present market values by about 25-30% overall.

You'd have to get them down to $25 each to interest me. Explain the math here - if you are having them made at $5-$10 each, why would they sell for $100 a pair? Forget Taiwan, go to China and have them made for 1/3 and then sell the pair for $50-$60.

When I say they will cost $?? to make. This does not account for having to make molds and the set up time plus the shipping which is about $200-$250 for a 4'X4'X4' sea container. Also in some ports there is a dock handling fee. So the end price offsets all of the costs incurred. When Maier sells garbage ones at way over $25 that do not look like the original I see no point in the lower price. My gauge faces I made prove this. I have a huge line that people asked for and beat on my door and I ran like a fool to make them and now I am sitting on them.

Ok, here is why you do not do China....Anyone who has traveled into China knows how restrictive all and any levels of travel are. It is a bit like Korea. You get to see what they want you to. Also another nasty that happens in China and Korea, they will make your product all right. In about 7 months they steal it using your company name (Internationally) and sell it to the world that way. SO it looks like YOU are selling the product, but it is them. They will even sell the parts to the world at a rate that you could not even compete with. They simply do not acknowledge any level of copyright in anyway.

gotta be truthfull
would rather buy american made than taiwan
living in mich ,seen what overseas can do to the local economy

Local economy here sucks and me making the seats and bits here will change nothing other than the fact that some fool will want $16-$20 an hour to run some damn machine. I used to be pro union until I worked for the IAM at Big Joe Manufacturing in the Dells. The union was BS and just gave guys time to stand around and do nothing. There was a guy who would push a broom around the entire plant. He swept the floor for less than 2 hours grands total. The rest was spent BSing.

Making my parts in or out of country will have zero effect as far as I can see on "local economy". Normally I am pro-American manufacturing. I use to figure if we send out all of the manufacturing jobs then we will all have to work at Walmart to pay for all the imported stuff we did not make and we can not afford. But it is not this cut and dry - just ask an economics student.

Bring a really good international lawyer with you.

Ernie there is not a chance that I will do anything without an attorney available to make sure things stay just like they should.

[ElCheapo]

And I looked at this thread again. I feel so stupid. I meant Thailand NOT Taiwan...

[kghost]

Tell ya what Tom.....

Its all about the quality vs the price for me....

I'd pay $10 - $20 above what even CMSL charges for a side cover if they were made out of a better plastic.

What I'd really like is a set made out of aluminum. 

As for where they are made? Couldn't care less.

With ya on the union thing. Think NAFTA sent all the jobs to Mexico? Nope. The unions played a big part.

I'll stand by for the hate mail 

[Glenn Stauffer]

You'd have to get them down to $25 each to interest me. Explain the math here - if you are having them made at $5-$10 each, why would they sell for $100 a pair? Forget Taiwann, go to China and have them made for 1/3 and then sell the pair for $50-$60.

In the states I could have the parts made for about $35 each on the seats and about the same for side covers - In Taiwan I could have them made for $5-10 or less on average.

This means to you a set of perfect side covers would be $100 or less out the door or $150 or more or both from American manufacturers..

Glenn, I read this as $25-$30 each to be manufactured overseas. When all is said and done I would think that $100/pair would be a reasonable cost after mark-up, especially since there would probably be a low volume actually sold. Mark-up could go down when volume sales go up, right 'Cheapo

You are right.  I mis-read the post.  You have to figure that the cost will be relatively high since the volume will probably never be high for something like this.   David Silver has them for about $57 US each unpainted, so $50 or less for an exact replica is probably viable.

[tramp]

the problem as i see it is that if you make it overseas cheaper it should be cheaper
to pay someone a dirt cheap wage and then charge almost the same amount as if it were made here is wrong
they pay their people 5 bucks a day and still charge a good amount to buy that product

[ElCheapo]

the problem as i see it is that if you make it overseas cheaper it should be cheaper
to pay someone a dirt cheap wage and then charge almost the same amount as if it were made here is wrong
they pay their people 5 bucks a day and still charge a good amount to buy that product

Thier "dirt cheap" wage is relative to thier environment..... Thier economy is much weaker. Weaker meaning that you can do more there with $5 than you can do $60 here... Rent a scoot all day with gas for $7  They can build a $500,000 home for about $65,000. This only looks lopesided when you take the (to them) extreme wages of the average American and put that money in thier environment or vice versa.

[eldar]

I would have to say that I would probably buy them. A good set of sidecovers is hard to find. I have the meiers right now and they are ok but something that is right on would be much better. To an extent, I dont have an issue with overseas manufacture. Reason being is that much of the american made products suck. Look at our cars. Your aberage jap car is much better than anything american companies make. Yet american cars are every bit as expensive. At $20,000+ you can bet I will buy jap over american for something where quality is of paramount performance. Sorry but unions have done nothing but help drive up inflation and make things cost more. I wont say anything more about union as I have nothing good to say about them. HOWEVER, IF american factories were to produce good products at a decent price, I would certainly buy them.

[siter81]

If it is good enoght for Kathy lee gifford it is good enough for me??



PLEASE FORIVE MY SICK SENSE OF HUMOR?

[tramp]

the problem as i see it is that if you make it overseas cheaper it should be cheaper
to pay someone a dirt cheap wage and then charge almost the same amount as if it were made here is wrong
they pay their people 5 bucks a day and still charge a good amount to buy that product

Thier "dirt cheap" wage is relative to thier environment..... Thier economy is much weaker. Weaker meaning that you can do more there with $5 than you can do $60 here... Rent a scoot all day with gas for $7  They can build a $500,000 home for about $65,000. This only looks lopesided when you take the (to them) extreme wages of the average American and put that money in thier environment or vice versa.

you know thats why i see the average guy working there in one of those 65000$ homes
i know its cheaper to live overseas but the average guy there does not live in the middle class
been overseas many times i speak from experience
you have a good idea run with it
a thread like this could go on forever

[ic455]

I'd buy stuff made overseas (already do, anyways).  As with most other replacement or repro parts available at your local auto parts store, just slap an American name on it and don't tell where it was made.