Author Topic: SOHC Four Electronic Ignition - I Don't Get It (Read 10902 times)

b52bombardier1 · « **on:** August 16, 2016, 06:09:26 PM »

Hello,

I simply don't understand the attraction around here for any kind of SOHC Four electronic ignition. People seem to have constant trouble with them and many threads and discussions around here are devoted to solving those problems.

The original equipment points ignition . . . much, much less so. All of my Honda bikes have plain old points ignitions that are relatively straightforward to repair and trouble free after replacing condensers and points. Set the gap and timing and you are done.

So I don't understand . . . what am I missing here?

Rick

Steve_K · « **Reply #1 on:** August 16, 2016, 06:27:11 PM »

I have points with a Hondaman ignition on mine. But, I do like that my newer bikes that have electronic ignitions. They also have had fuel injection, too. Points are not an issue for me and I am comfortable with them.
It was simple for me, do what suits you. I just want to ride mine.
Steve

HondaMan · « **Reply #2 on:** August 16, 2016, 06:32:42 PM »

Points are very reliable, but do wear. My box slows that problem to a crawl, while also improving the spark when cold, and up to 12k RPM. And, if it fails, you can unplug the 4 wires and plug the points back in in under 2 minutes, and hit the road again.

USMC5811 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 16, 2016, 06:37:39 PM »

The first tools I ever kept in a car were a screwdriver and a book of matches. I've never had room for a diagnostics computer in one yet.

I like points.

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madmtnmotors · « **Reply #4 on:** August 16, 2016, 06:42:37 PM »

Quote from: b52bombardier1 on August 16, 2016, 06:09:26 PM

I simply don't understand the attraction around here for any kind of SOHC Four electronic ignition.

The original equipment points ignition . . . much, much less so. All of my Honda bikes have plain old points ignitions that are relatively straightforward to repair and trouble free after replacing condensers and points. Set the gap and timing and you are done.

So I don't understand . . . what am I missing here?

I have used an electronic ignition in several CB750's without issues, and my K8 CB750 Dyna ignition has been in place for over 40,000 miles trouble free. I have not had to change the settings on my K8 ignition since it was installed 40,000 miles ago.

I will agree, the points/condensers are more than adequate, and any motor that I'm bringing back to life I will set up with points/condensers for initial break-in just to keep my dual point ignition set up skills sharp. I would just rather not have to address point gap and timing on subsequent tune ups. I do keep a gapped and timed (outline the mounting screws with a sharpie) points plate in the saddlebag for trips of 400 miles or beyond, but I have never had to use it. Most of the trouble threads I've seen often involve some sort of error or misunderstanding on the part of the installer. The most recent one involved a coil bracket that was installed backwards and was shorting out the coil connection.

So for me, it is the "set and forget" nature of the electronic ignition. I luv'em!

Lostboy Steve · « **Reply #5 on:** August 16, 2016, 06:44:09 PM »

Quote from: USMC5811 on August 16, 2016, 06:37:39 PM

The first tools I ever kept in a car were a screwdriver and a book of matches. I've never had room for a diagnostics computer in one yet.

I like points.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Like hondaman said his basically eliminates wear. Its nice to never have to change or touch them again. I don't mind points either, but for the $70~ why not?

DH · « **Reply #6 on:** August 16, 2016, 07:06:37 PM »

Points pit, wear, and arc. They work fine for a long time, but performance slowly degrades. This can lead to misfires,(pitting) and retarded ignition timing as the rubbing block and contacts wear, and sometimes moisture will affect performance. I still have em on my
750 AND 550 both. I'd like to convert to Hondaman's system for its simplicity and the fact that you can revert back to stock.
I'm thinking that his system gives better spark duration too, and that's a good thing. An electronic transistor is much more
consistant, efficiently turning the coils off/on repeatedly than a mechanical device I would think.

scottly · « **Reply #7 on:** August 16, 2016, 07:27:22 PM »

Quote from: madmtnmotors on August 16, 2016, 06:42:37 PM

I have used an electronic ignition in several CB750's without issues, and my K8 CB750 Dyna ignition has been in place for over 40,000 miles trouble free. I have not had to change the settings on my K8 ignition since it was installed 40,000 miles ago.

So for me, it is the "set and forget" nature of the electronic ignition. I luv'em!

I've only had to set the timing on my Gerex ignition twice in the 37 years I've had the bike, and both times were because I had to remove it to split the cases.

b52bombardier1 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 16, 2016, 08:00:39 PM »

I need to focus more on the people that are running electronic ignition successfully. However, they . . . rarely complain. It's those that have trouble that I have read too much about.

With the 500-1000 miles that I put on a bike each year, points do very well. Maybe if one of these bikes was a daily driver, yea, I might feel differently.

But thanks for the comments. I understand a little better now.

Rick

BomberMann650 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 16, 2016, 11:43:09 PM »

CycleX sells a performance tuneable setup that seems to kick ass. It's been discussed here.

flatlander · « **Reply #10 on:** August 17, 2016, 03:50:31 AM »

you don't hear as much from those that don't have any problems

rotortiller · « **Reply #11 on:** August 17, 2016, 04:30:08 AM »

I have the Hondaman ignition on mine and it performs the same as stock regarding engine power. It's proven reliable over 3 or 4 years and 20,000+ miles. The only benefit is the points don't burn. The rubbing block still wears and you will still need to make routine adjustments for that. If you don't ride a lot it is kind of a waste of money and effort, if you ride a bunch then it can save you work and parts over extended time. Remember points can be filed/dressed to extend their service life. I still check my timing once a year and the HM ignition has not changed that. I don't dress the contacts any more, just clean them. Personally if I did it over again, I'd try the Tytronics system just to piss off a bunch of nutswingers LOL

70CB750 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 17, 2016, 05:04:14 AM »

I installed Pamco on Dorothy and did not touch it for 25 000 miles - try that with just points.

lrutt · « **Reply #13 on:** August 17, 2016, 05:43:04 AM »

Only bikes that ever left me stranded were bikes with electronics. No bike with points has EVER let me down. I have never retrofitted any bike to electronics. Guzzi, Norton, Triumphs, old Hondas, Old Yamahas and Suzukis, even my 1953 MG TD still run the original type electrics. Reliable as a rock.

Lostboy Steve · « **Reply #14 on:** August 17, 2016, 05:51:45 AM »

Quote from: lrutt on August 17, 2016, 05:43:04 AM

Only bikes that ever left me stranded were bikes with electronics. No bike with points has EVER let me down. I have never retrofitted any bike to electronics. Guzzi, Norton, Triumphs, old Hondas, Old Yamahas and Suzukis, even my 1953 MG TD still run the original type electrics. Reliable as a rock.

I'll agree, but if it were to fail, Hondamans takes literally less than a minute to revert back to stock.

USMC5811 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 17, 2016, 05:01:44 PM »

Quote from: rotortiller on August 17, 2016, 04:30:08 AM

I have the Hondaman ignition on mine and it performs the same as stock regarding engine power. It's proven reliable over 3 or 4 years and 20,000+ miles. The only benefit is the points don't burn. The rubbing block still wears and you will still need to make routine adjustments for that. If you don't ride a lot it is kind of a waste of money and effort, if you ride a bunch then it can save you work and parts over extended time. Remember points can be filed/dressed to extend their service life. I still check my timing once a year and the HM ignition has not changed that. I don't dress the contacts any more, just clean them. Personally if I did it over again, I'd try the Tytronics system just to piss off a bunch of nutswingers LOL

Where does one find this?
I've googled but nothing looks like that, so I'm scratching my puzzler.

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HondaMan · « **Reply #16 on:** August 17, 2016, 05:22:41 PM »

Quote from: USMC5811 on August 16, 2016, 06:37:39 PM

The first tools I ever kept in a car were a screwdriver and a book of matches. I've never had room for a diagnostics computer in one yet.

I like points.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Boy, you just brought back massive memories of my 390 Fords and Galaxies!

USMC5811 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 17, 2016, 05:37:30 PM »

Quote from: HondaMan on August 17, 2016, 05:22:41 PM

Quote from: USMC5811 on August 16, 2016, 06:37:39 PM
The first tools I ever kept in a car were a screwdriver and a book of matches. I've never had room for a diagnostics computer in one yet.

I like points.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Boy, you just brought back massive memories of my 390 Fords and Galaxies!

'71 Ford Pinto - engine was technically a "SOHC 4" and even had a label on in stating "2000cc" so I figured it's ok to talk about it here LOL

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CycleRanger · « **Reply #18 on:** August 17, 2016, 08:41:45 PM »

Quote from: USMC5811 on August 17, 2016, 05:01:44 PM

Where does one find this?
I've googled but nothing looks like that, so I'm scratching my puzzler.

There's a thread about these over at the twins forum.
http://www.hondatwins.net/forums/50-electrical-discussion/44581-tytronic-ignition-2.html

rotortiller · « **Reply #19 on:** August 18, 2016, 01:24:23 PM »

Quote

Where does one find this?
I've googled but nothing looks like that, so I'm scratching my puzzler.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/electronic-ignition-for-cb500-cb550-cb750-/112029003964?fits=Model%3ACB400F&hash=item1a1572f0bc:g:hLAAAOSwGYVXCF0u&vxp=mtr&rmvSB=true

Duanob · « **Reply #20 on:** August 18, 2016, 01:29:50 PM »

Another points vs Electronic Ignition thread? It's getting as bad as the oil threads!

If you don't like EI then don't buy one. That's your opinion that's fine. I don't agree with you so let's just agree to disagree. I've had many old vehicles, cars, boats, motorcycles that I switched over from points and never missed a beat.

jonda500 · « **Reply #21 on:** August 18, 2016, 05:56:25 PM »

Yes, I don't really get it either! Having been stranded far from anywhere due to an intermittent CDI fault and then when I returned to pick up the bike, it had been stolen, I would never ever convert a points bike to electronic ignition as I like to know how my stuff works and be able to fix it if the points ever fail (but I have never had a points related break down).
John

scottly · « **Reply #22 on:** August 18, 2016, 06:31:26 PM »

Quote from: jonda500 on August 18, 2016, 05:56:25 PM

Having been stranded far from anywhere due to an intermittent CDI fault

The only true CDI ignition that has been mentioned here is the Gerex; the Dyna S, Pamco, and Power arc are all inductive systems, which store the energy in the coils, rather than a capacitor.

HondaMan · « **Reply #23 on:** August 18, 2016, 06:56:27 PM »

Sooner or later I will be making the pickup-coil version of mine, which will be "all electronic" in a way. But, it will still have the revert-to-points-quickly feature, 'cuz I want it! Speaking as a lifelong electronics engineer and designer, points are usually more reliable than the too-quickly-designed electronic versions we sometimes see (in many things, not just ignitions) today. So, mine will not have electronics on the hot points plate (which was the demise of my built-in timing LED for this unit), but purely mechanical parts, once I get the temperature issues worked out - that's the tough part!

Old guys and old stuff rule!

scottly · « **Reply #24 on:** August 18, 2016, 07:11:23 PM »

Quote from: HondaMan on August 18, 2016, 06:56:27 PM

Old guys and old stuff rule!

It's true, and I have a T-shirt that proves it!

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Author Topic: SOHC Four Electronic Ignition - I Don't Get It (Read 10902 times)

DH