Topic: TRIBSA

[ken65]

Mine doesn't leak and its got oil in it.  ok, ok, the forks do a little bit.

[seanbarney41]

Lol

[Terry in Australia]

Mine doesn't leak and its got oil in it.  ok, ok, the forks do a little bit.

Ha ha, filling up your engine with 90 weight diff oil doesn't count Ken!

Back in the 1970's I had a VF Valiant VIP with the mighty 318 "Fireball" V8. Problem was, mine burned so much oil that on a drive from Watsonia to the Rye Back Beach (60 miles?) it used all 5 litres of 20-W30, so I filled it up with diff oil, and while it still fogged the Nepean Highway with a blue cloud all the way home, it only needed about 3 litres when I got home. Bargain.

I did a burnout once to impress some of my mates and they were stoked at how much "Tyre smoke" it produced, I didn't have the heart to explain that it was actually burning 90 weight. Still, it didn't leak oil..........  

[ken65]

HA, I had a 71 valiant station wagon. Mine didn't leak or use oil.  Bit rusty though.

You musta had some sh#t cars Terrence.

Sorry Marty for going off thread  some. Terry's fault.

[Terry in Australia]

HA, I had a 71 valiant station wagon. Mine didn't leak or use oil.  Bit rusty though.

You musta had some sh#t cars Terrence.

Sorry Marty for going off thread  some. Terry's fault.

Here we go again, "Blame Terry", "Terry drank the last beer", "Terry fcked that chook", blah blah blah. It's the bloody story of my life........

But anyway, yep, I followed it with a Mazda RX2 Coupe with a 12A Rotary that was rooted too, but once you got it going, it'd do 140 MPH and pissed all over V8 Fords and Holdens. My last "questionable" car was a 1967 XR Falcon, ex cop car, then I got married and had to have a reliable car, especially once the rugrats came along. Those were the days..........

[martin99]

Yay, back again! Another gripping installment of the rebuild of the mega-magnificient  TriBSA 

Got five of the six rings gapped no problem.



Last one to be checked was far too big a gap straight out of the packet. Cue another tense phone call to the supplier, who refused to believe that it could possibly happen as each ring is made to exacting standards, quality checked and each come with precisely the same nominal measurement. Reluctantly they agreed to contact their supplier, and after two more phone calls chasing them up and a week and a half later I received a replacement ring in the post, which in fact needed more filing than any of the others as even with the gap fully closed it wouldn't go in the bore. So much for exacting standards. After this a fella might be a bit nervous about using these rings, but the piston/ring kits are British made and all the Brit forums speak highly of them,so we'll see.

Pistons fitted...



And tappets secured to prevent disaster...



At this point I made sure I had everything to hand to fit the barrels. The washers that sit underneath the base nuts were a mixture of mangled copper and distorted originals, and of course I had neglected to check them before I was ready to use them  . So cue another phone call, and I could sense the smug satisfaction in his voice. 'Yes we've got them, they're a few pennies each but there's a minimum order of five quid plus three quid p&p plus 20% value added tax'. Not surprisingly, I was forced to moan about this on the pissed off thread, and of course got the usual heartfelt sympathy  .

Anyway, for less money I bought a new set of base nuts and washers from elsewhere - just to make me feel better. I think I now have all the Triumph parts I need, moving on from the motor I'll be in the hands of BSA suppliers instead, who I am sure are much nicer people to deal with 

More piston fun...



I read up a lot about the correct/incorrect way to fit the barrels, and it's surprising just how many different methods are recommended - oil the bore, don't oil the bore, oil the rings, don't oil the rings, use assembly lube, don't....you get the picture. In the end the rings stayed dry, the bores were treated to the lightest smear of engine oil, and the piston skirts liberally coated before dropping the barrel fully home...





and buttoned up...



 

[martin99]

At this point it seemed logical to re-fit the magneto. Took it to bits to check it out. Here's some random 'taking the magneto to bits' pictures....



Makes sense to replace the pick-up brushes...



Earth brush knackered...



Bearing race knackered...



In fact, both bearings shot, and slip ring deep-grooved...



If it'd just been the brushes to worry about, I'd probably have just replaced them and ran with it. When you start adding up all these parts though, and the fact you need special tools to take it all apart, I think I'm better off sending the whole thing out for professional refurbishment. That way the capacitor, winding and magnetism all get checked and sorted too. Not cheap, around 300 GBP, but better than having to chase mag-related issues further down the road because of a half-arsed repair.

Another option, and around half the price, would be to fit electronic ignition, which brings with it another set of variables - EI would need a half decent charge in the battery to work, meaning the dynamo would need to be producing the volts, the regulator would need to be upgraded, and if the thing decides to stop working it could leave you stranded. In other words, false economy I reckon. A well-sorted mag should last another forty years with little attention, and doesn't rely on a battery to start the engine. Just got to make sure I pick a good tradesman to do the refurb, which is where I am at with it now.

 

[Terry in Australia]

That looks lovely Martin, well done! RE: The electronic ignition, if you've got a good battery and you're not using power for anything more than brake lights and blinkers, the engine will run for hours on battery power alone.

Most Pommy #$%*box racers here don't run a mag at all, they just make sure they've got a well charged battery to run the EI, and they're fine. Obviously if you're gonna ride around with your headlight on you need a good charging system, but I'm pretty sure you don't have "lights on" laws for classic bikes? Cheers, Terry.  

[martin99]

No, no 'lights on' laws here, in fact you can ditch the headlight altogether and just get a daylight MOT.
I haven't sent the mag away yet, and TBH I'm still undecided. Even if I go with EI though, those bearings will still need replacing and that will be a bastaard of a job. Plenty of time to think about it and not the best time of year to make serious financial commitments, the missus is expecting more than the ten quid voucher she got for Christmas last year 

[vfourfreak]

Did your base gasket disappear between shots ?

Kev

[martin99]

No Kev it's there, hiding under a layer of Threebond.

Jeez, don't do things like that to me.....

[bill440cars]

         Looking good there, too bad about the issue with the rings and the supplier. Glad that it got sorted out though. Looking forward to more on this one. 

[riverfever]

Enjoyed reading about your project. Great job on the repairs. In for the ride.

[martin99]

         Looking good there, too bad about the issue with the rings and the supplier. Glad that it got sorted out though. Looking forward to more on this one. 

All about the money with suppliers nowadays Bill. When I was restoring my Norton, I dealt with a chap called Mick Hemmings. He could be a grumpy old so and so, but he always took the time to talk things through, any problems with wrong parts he immediately resolved without question, and you could ring him for advice whether you were buying or not. This Triumph lot just don't seem bothered, they're the longest established suppliers with the largest stocks in the UK, they know most people will go to them for ease of having everything fulfilled on a single order rather than shop here and there, and the fact that what you spend with them might represent a lot of money to you just doesn't cut any ice with them. If they had started out like this when the business was established many years ago, I doubt they'd still be in business today. But never mind eh?

[martin99]

Enjoyed reading about your project. Great job on the repairs. In for the ride.

Thanks, great to know you're following. But then, how could anyone not be won over by such a fine example of a pommy sh1tbox classic British motorcycle?

[Stev-o]

Enjoyed reading about your project. Great job on the repairs. In for the ride.

Thanks, great to know you're following. But then, how could anyone not be won over by such a fine example of a pommy sh1tbox classic British motorcycle?

Ha! Don't ya just love how Uncle Terry sugar coats all his posts?! Enjoying this build as I may someday want a PS bike!

[Terry in Australia]

Geez, and there I was thinking how subtle I can be compared to some of my biker mates.......

[martin99]

The complete engine is a very tight fit in the frame. To make it easier to remove, I took the head and rocker covers off first. My plan is to put the engine back in reverse sequence, that is install the head and rockers after the bottom end is back in the frame. So now I need to turn my attention to the gearbox, which cannot be removed with the engine in situ....



The box came out easy enough, just three studs to remove and out it comes complete with engine plates attached. The engine plates themselves are aluminium and look home-made. The BSA gearbox mounts are narrower than the Triumph engine mounts, so brass spacers have been used to line everything up. I haven't shown them in the pictures - I thought photos of brass washers might overload the excitement receptors of a few people on here and I don't want to be responsible for causing anyone to have a cardiac arrest just before Christmas .....



Once on the bench in all it's crud-encrusted beauty, I set about locating the drain-plug to evacuate the old gearbox oil. I looked at it from all angles but could not see where the plug was, but when I wiped off the crap from where I thought it should be I found it - well, half of it anyway....



As soon as one problem is resolved, another appears. The builder of this fine machine has ground off the head of the drain plug to accommodate the engine plate that runs beneath it....



I don't want to have to tip the bike on it's side, or take the engine out, every time I want to drain the gearbox. Sure, It's not something you expect to do that often, which is probably what our intrepid builder concluded, but there must be a more satisfactory solution IMO and I would prefer to have a drain-plug with a proper head that I can get a spanner or socket on. I'm thinking relocation of the drain-hole (not even sure if that's possible yet without further inspection) or maybe get a bit more inventive and fabricate an engine plate that will allow removal from the existing location.

As ever, opinions from the masses welcomed!

 

[Terry in Australia]

Nah, it probably came out of the factory that way Martin!

[martin99]

Nah, it probably came out of the factory that way Martin!

Thanks Terry for yet another very helpful contribution 

[Terry in Australia]

Now being the helpful bloke I am, why not just replace that with a threaded plug (one with an internal hex would be the go) and if you need to acess it, drill a hole in the gearbox mounting plate? Not that it'd be a huge problem to remove the gearbox once a year to change the oil? Cheers, Terry.

[martin99]

Thanks for the suggestion Terry, I've thought about doing something along those lines, I'd still be a bit worried about seepage through the threads though, without the benefit of an infallible fibre washer or modern equivalent. That last photo shows me roughly holding the plates in their proper position, in fact they are slightly more forward of that and lay only a couple of mil from the centre of the plug - so even trickier than it looks.

[Terry in Australia]

Yeah, Is there any clearance at all betwixt the gearbox body and the mounting plate? Both of my BMW's have drain plugs with round heads only 4 or 5mm thick, with just a copper washer and they don't leak, but if not, there are plenty of thread sealants out there.

[Terry in Australia]

And of course, PTFE "Plumbers Tape" will just about stop any kind of oil from seeping past.

[martin99]

Life's been getting in the way lately, but I finally found a couple of hours to strip down the BSA gearbox  .

With the drainplug effectively missing, I pulled off the inspection cover on the back of the box to drain the oil. Of course, nothing came out because there was nothing in there, the oil having managed to seep out of the various escape routes over the years and then taking residence on the outside of the casing, the lower frame rails, the mainstand, swingarm, etc etc.

Unlike the Norton gearbox, which has remained oil-tight since I overhauled it several years ago, the BSA box does not employ any type of seal for the gearchange and kickstart shaft where they exit the front cover, so these are prime favourite leaking areas. This particular box benefits (not!) from having no gaskets on either of the two inspection covers or in-between the front cover and casing. The gaskets should be there of course, but instead there is evidence of copious amounts of hylomar being used instead, the last time it was taken apart, whenever that was. Brilliant.

So a few pics of the stripdown. This is what lies behind the front cover - gear selector, kickstart pawl and spring, speedo gear...



And this is what is revealed with the cover removed...



With the nut removed the cases can be separated. Here you can see the smaller of the two mainshaft bearings, the other being behind the final driven sprocket at the back...



Not sure how this damage has been caused to the back of the intermediate case around that bearing - maybe a lack of care drifting it out previously. The bearing doesn't actually seat on that part where the alloy is split and deformed, and despite the crack it feels pretty strong and not about to break off. I plan on drilling a small hole at either end of the split and leave it be....



First look at the cluster...



Thankfully it all looks good. No significant wear, no pitting, no chipped teeth...



Cleaned up the case - note the ally spacers that have been attached to line the box up with the engine....



And then reassembled with the engine plates to have another proper look at that sump plug issue - now thinking it's probably not an issue at all, I'll just need to buy a new one and it looks accessible, can't think why it was ground off in the first place now ...



And that's it. Need to order a shed-load of parts, both mainshaft bearings are shot, there's numerous phospher bronze bushes that need replacing, gaskets, oil seal, various screws and washers, all coming to a tidy sum and possibly not all available. I'll be making enquiries when that 'life' thing allows me to do it.