Topic: TRIBSA

[grcamna2]

Nice work Martin; it seems you've 'been down one of these roads before'.. 
Do you plan on installing the new drain plug in the same place ?

[Terry in Australia]

Ha ha, looks great Martin, I was thinking of your "No significant wear" comment, and wondered if any old Pommy sh1tbox located in Britain had ever actually worn out, considering that your "riding season" is probably measured in days? I remember one of the coldest days in my life was a summer day on Brighton "beach"............

[martin99]

Nice work Martin; it seems you've 'been down one of these roads before'.. 
Do you plan on installing the new drain plug in the same place ?

Makes sense to put it in the same place I think, the casting is obviously shaped flat there to enable a seal of some sort. It'll be tight to fit a spanner on there, but I reckon a deep socket would probably do the trick - I'll need to check to be 100% sure. I'll be ditching the fibre washer though in favour of these -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Imperial-Dowty-Washer-Bonded-Seal-Nitrile-Viton-Mild-Stainless-Steel-10-Pack-/331894137806?var=&hash=item4d466ea3ce:m:m3BdyowiNZ1FXrbQKYKodNQ

I've used these washers on several applications now, and have never had one fail. It won't stop this gearbox leaking, but it will at least eliminate one of the usual suspects!

[martin99]

Ha ha, looks great Martin, I was thinking of your "No significant wear" comment, and wondered if any old Pommy sh1tbox located in Britain had ever actually worn out, considering that your "riding season" is probably measured in days? I remember one of the coldest days in my life was a summer day on Brighton "beach"............

To be honest Terry, I've not come across a pommy sh1tbox yet that has needed any internal parts changed other than bearings, bushes and the odd selector fork. I don't do this for a living, so please no-one jump down my throat, but that's my experience of it and I've done a few. You're absolutely bang on about the riding season, we don't really have one, summer rolls on into autumn and into winter and it's difficult to know the difference unless the weather bloke on the TV tells you the season has changed. At the moment it's around 10C during the day, dropping to 2C at night, but that might equally be the case in the spring!

It's just as well it was a bit chilly when you hit Brighton mate, it's a gay mecca (not that there's anything wrong with that) and I for one would want to be well wrapped up if I was taking a stroll along that beach in the summer!

[grcamna2]

Martin,
I think you're doing a great restoration job on that excellent vintage British Triumph/BSA and I'd be willing to bet that once you get it complete it will hold together for an extended duration of life.I don't agree w/ Terry's put-down of your bike(whether he's serious or not who can tell?  )and name calling.
There are plenty of improvements you're making to it that will make it Much better than it was before it came into your care.
I love the vintage Triumph and BSA cycles and 'they are what they are'  Good Machines 

[Stev-o]

It's just as well it was a bit chilly when you hit Brighton mate, it's a gay mecca (not that there's anything wrong with that) and I for one would want to be well wrapped up if I was taking a stroll along that beach in the summer!

I'm sure Terry knew that, Martin.  Just wondering if that was why he was there? (Not that there would be anything wrong with that!)

[754]

Allen bolt for drain plug.. Or make a plug on a lathe, with desired head on it.

[Terry in Australia]

Was it a gay Mecca in 1974 Martin? All I can remember was pissing myself laughing at all the lily-white poms swimming with their shoes on, because the "beach" was more pebbles than sand?

[Terry in Australia]

Martin,
I think you're doing a great restoration job on that excellent vintage British Triumph/BSA and I'd be willing to bet that once you get it complete it will hold together for an extended duration of life.I don't agree w/ Terry's put-down of your bike(whether he's serious or not who can tell?  )and name calling.
There are plenty of improvements you're making to it that will make it Much better than it was before it came into your care.
I love the vintage Triumph and BSA cycles and 'they are what they are'  Good Machines 

ha ha, don't take anything I say about Martin's bikes as serious mate, you have to understand the British/Australian relationship to understand why we both enjoy teasing each other so, American's don't "get" that it's harmless fun, and that's why you guys need guns and we don't.

I have plenty of respect for Martin, and I actually own two Triumphs, a Rocket III that's been in the family since it was new in 2007, (of course it blew up with less than 6000 miles on the odometer and there was no recall or warranty, even though it was a known fault) and a Triumph car that I inherited from my dad, a 1975 model TC2500 that he bought in 1977 when he backed out of the purchase of a new Toyota because being a WW2 veteran, he couldn't bring himself to buy anything Japanese.

The term "Pommy Sh1tbox", "English Oil Distributor", etc, are just terms of endearment for British engineering in general and have been passed down from generation of Aussies who have all been frustrated at owning one of these fine British motor vehicles..........

[martin99]

It's just as well it was a bit chilly when you hit Brighton mate, it's a gay mecca (not that there's anything wrong with that) and I for one would want to be well wrapped up if I was taking a stroll along that beach in the summer!

I'm sure Terry knew that, Martin.  Just wondering if that was why he was there? (Not that there would be anything wrong with that!)

Now you mention it Stev-o, I do believe I can recall some mention of a large hairy-arsed fella wearing nothing but a hat with corks hanging from it and a pair of chaps, roaming the south coast beaches, stalking the young men and stealing their shoes and Speedo's, back in the mid-seventies. 

[martin99]

Martin,
I think you're doing a great restoration job on that excellent vintage British Triumph/BSA and I'd be willing to bet that once you get it complete it will hold together for an extended duration of life.I don't agree w/ Terry's put-down of your bike(whether he's serious or not who can tell?  )and name calling.
There are plenty of improvements you're making to it that will make it Much better than it was before it came into your care.
I love the vintage Triumph and BSA cycles and 'they are what they are'  Good Machines 

ha ha, don't take anything I say about Martin's bikes as serious mate, you have to understand the British/Australian relationship to understand why we both enjoy teasing each other so, American's don't "get" that it's harmless fun, and that's why you guys need guns and we don't.

I have plenty of respect for Martin, and I actually own two Triumphs, a Rocket III that's been in the family since it was new in 2007, (of course it blew up with less than 6000 miles on the odometer and there was no recall or warranty, even though it was a known fault) and a Triumph car that I inherited from my dad, a 1975 model TC2500 that he bought in 1977 when he backed out of the purchase of a new Toyota because being a WW2 veteran, he couldn't bring himself to buy anything Japanese.

The term "Pommy Sh1tbox", "English Oil Distributor", etc, are just terms of endearment for British engineering in general and have been passed down from generation of Aussies who have all been frustrated at owning one of these fine British motor vehicles..........

Yep, all in good fun, apart from the nights when I cry myself to sleep after reading another one of Terry's insults, but I just have to keep telling myself that being consumed by jealousy must be hard for him to deal with, and pray and hope that one day the green mist will clear and he'll realise just how deserving of resurrection these fine pieces of British engineering actually are. In the meantime, I think we should all encourage him to get out on his mobility scooter Hardly Davidson more, that way if he's looking for a way to offload his frustration at least he won't be able to drive too recklessly. 

BTW, I've only ever owned a couple of Triumph cars, and while like everything else they have their followers over here, I think they're crap both mine blew up and I wouldn't have another one if you paid me. 

[Terry in Australia]

Oooh, and I forgot, I also own a BSA! (or two) A couple of years ago I bought a BSA engine powered lawn mower from the 1940's or 50's, it is still in minty condition, Roy the 93 year old who I bought it from was given it by the wife of the original owner, (Roy's neighbour) when the owner passed away.

Roy told me that he could remember when his neighbour bought it, but couldn't remember the year, but Roy borrowed the mower to do his lawn occasionally, and always had to wash and oil the mower when he'd finished with it, to maintain it's "new" appearance. I picked it up for $60 on EBay and it fired right up when I took it home, only issue was that it leaked fuel because the cork seal on the fuel tap had shrunk, but I was able to buy a new one online for a couple of bucks.

Oh, and it doesn't leak oil either, maybe BSA should have stuck to building guns (I've also got a BSA Super Meteor Air Rifle that I bought new in 1975) and mowers?

Triumph cars crap? Well I agree entirely, but if you're not a lead foot they can be amazing, Dad's TC2500 (that I've been trying to give away since he died last year) is still running with absolutely no engine work apart from oil changes in 40 years! It's outlived maybe 10 of my cars? Horses for courses, perhaps?

[martin99]

Was it a gay Mecca in 1974 Martin? All I can remember was pissing myself laughing at all the lily-white poms swimming with their shoes on, because the "beach" was more pebbles than sand?

Ha Ha

You would have been about 13 in 1974 Terry, perhaps a bit young to realise what was going on? Ever seen pictures of those baby turtles going hell for leather to get down to the sea before the predators got to them? Well the same thing happens in Brighton and you can't sprint over pebbles without shoes on  !

And the ones shuffling over the pebbles on their backsides - well that takes on a new meaning there too, it's not just because they forgot their shoes  .

Not that there's anything wrong with any of this, of course!

[Terry in Australia]

Yep, I was 14 Martin, and blissfully unaware of the rock spiders that have apparently forced the lily-white British families out and claimed Brighton beach as their own. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.........)

[martin99]

Santa came to my house early, with a sack-full of gearbox bits for the TriBSA  . Bearings, sleeves, bushes, springs, spacers, odds and sods in fact everything that needs replacing through wear or was just found to be missing in the first place.....



So in spite of the inconvenience and bad timing of Christmas festivities, I've had quite a productive couple of weeks. First job in the rebuild was to remove that drain plug, which had obviously made itself at home in there and was not going to go down without a fight. Patience, heat and perseverance won the day...



From then on it was just a case of 'rebuild is a reversal of the dismantling procedure', which makes it sound simple, which it wasn't. Replacement of the various bushes and sleeves required a bit of thinking about. Still sore from the whole tappet block episode, I measured each new piece against the old, just to satisfy myself that they would actually fit in the hole as they were supposed to. The layshaft bushes are drilled to correspond with oilways when they are pressed home, but the holes in the new ones were smaller than in the old ones. I opened them up because if I had fitted them slightly misaligned it could have blocked the oilways...





Pressing the bushes in and out of the cases was a right pain in the proverbial. I don't have a proper press, so I improvised. This involved me growing another hand as I juggled with various sockets and hot cases, trying to get it all lined up in the vice so the pressure was applied in the right spots without damaging the cases. This was a bit like playing Jenga, and on more than one occasion bits went flying across the garage as the whole lot slipped from position and I instinctively (and stupidly) tried to catch the falling bits, burning myself in the process. Idiot! 

So here's the rear mainshaft bearing and layshaft bush installed. The new bearing comes shielded on one side, which if I'm very lucky might help to limit the amount of oil I'll see on the floor....

 



Although I bought new bushes for the sleeve gear, I ended up not using them. The interweb is rife with horror stories of blokes having replaced these, only for them to turn in use causing their drillings not to correspond with their oilways anymore, resulting in no lubrication and seized gearbox. There wasn't that much difference in slop between my old one and the new, so I let it be.
Sleeve gear fitted and new oil seal...



Tightening nut after replacing final drive sprocket, using an old chain in the vice and the wheel bearing retainer removal tool for my Norton, which just happened to be exactly the right size to locate in the two cutaways in the circular nut...





Pure bike porn eh?  . Got to have a short interlude now while I have me dinner. I hear the 'pinch method' works quite well if I've got you too close to the brink of your excitement thus far.

 

[simon#42]

looks like the previous owner had the exact size chisel to fit that sprocket nut martin

[martin99]

looks like the previous owner had the exact size chisel to fit that sprocket nut martin

Ha ha! Yes you're right mate, the chisel was the other tool in his toolbox, along with the bloody great hammer! 

[martin99]

I don't know what she's scheming, but my missus has just cooked me one of the nicest steaks I've ever had. Well I say cooked, I reckon with a few minutes of CPR I could have got it going again, but that's just how I like it  .

Back to the bike.
Camplate mounted...



Gear cluster cleaned up, coated with fresh gear oil and fitted in the box...





Mainshaft out again and fitted to it's bearing in the intermediate cover. Doh!...



And married to the case...



Two sleeves to replace on the outer cover - one for the gearlever shaft, the other for the kickstart shaft...



The gearlever sleeve is shaped like a top hat. Under the 'brim' I found four .006" shims. Don't quite know what they are for - possibly something to do with end float? Or perhaps to correctly position the shaft as where it exits it should have a retaining circlip (although I was told nobody bothers to fit them  ). I figured that as I would be using a gasket on the outer cover, which was missing when I took the box apart, I'd better put them back. The old and new sleeves are identical to within a half a thou both in diameter and length btw, I'm pretty impressed with the supplier of this lot, all quality stuff...



Both these sleeves proved to be a tight fit. I had to ream them afterwards due to the inside diameters reducing once they were pressed in, and also to compensate for a slight bend in both lever shafts....



After that all that was left was to build up the gubbins in the inner cover again and push the cover home. Before you do that though, you first have to align two red dots, one on the selector pawl to the one on the inner cover. If you don't do this, it won't select gears properly. In practice, no matter how I positioned the pawl I could not get those dots to line up - not even wearing shades and squinting a lot. This became extremely frustrating calling for several beverage breaks before I eventually found the box's sweet spot (now,now, fellas  ) and was able to select all four gears.

And now we have a fully functioning gearbox  ...



I've fitted the front cover gasket with a smear of grease, as I see more shenanigans to come with this as the PO has made a rather interesting mod to the clutch push-rod mechanism (he's ground the adjuster nut in half  ) which may well necessitate removal of the cover later on.

 

[Stev-o]

And now we have a fully functioning gearbox  ...

WooHoo!  Nice job...

[Terry in Australia]

Good job Martin, are there any oil seals in the gearbox, or are you just going to fill it with grease? Cheers, Terry.

[martin99]

Good job Martin, are there any oil seals in the gearbox, or are you just going to fill it with grease? Cheers, Terry.

G'day Terry. Only oil seal is the one at the back, behind the sprocket. I've seen several discussions about filling these with grease, the general consensus being 'don't' (BSA didn't) due to this causing rapid wear to the layshaft and sleeve gear bushes. I don't know what the composition of the new bushes is, looks like/drills like brass to me, so perhaps this argument is as obsolete as the bike by now! Anyhow, it's EP 80/90 for me, that stuff's like treacle and If the only thing I'll need to worry about is a wipe with a rag under the box now and then, I'll consider myself to be bloody lucky! 

[martin99]

And now we have a fully functioning gearbox  ...

WooHoo!  Nice job...

Cheers Stev-o, looking forward to getting this back in the frame now, with the engine (in it's partially assembled state) soon after. I'm going to hang back on fitting the head and rockers once the engine's in until I can get the magneto refurbed (my bloke is away until the 9th Jan), just a lot easier to find TDC without the head on! There'll be plenty to do while I wait for him to sort the mag, still got carb, oil tank, dynamo etc to fettle, but should be able to fire her up (or not!) before next Christmas!

[Terry in Australia]

Good job Martin, are there any oil seals in the gearbox, or are you just going to fill it with grease? Cheers, Terry.

G'day Terry. Only oil seal is the one at the back, behind the sprocket. I've seen several discussions about filling these with grease, the general consensus being 'don't' (BSA didn't) due to this causing rapid wear to the layshaft and sleeve gear bushes. I don't know what the composition of the new bushes is, looks like/drills like brass to me, so perhaps this argument is as obsolete as the bike by now! Anyhow, it's EP 80/90 for me, that stuff's like treacle and If the only thing I'll need to worry about is a wipe with a rag under the box now and then, I'll consider myself to be bloody lucky! 

No worries mate, I know they filled some old Pommy gearboxes with grease, but if you had decent seals I'd use ATF. Many years ago I had a V8 Ford with a 4 speed single rail manual box, and the guy who'd reconditioned the box specified ATF, which I used (reluctantly) but I did thousands of miles in that car, then sold it to my brother in law who drove it for thousands more, with no issues.

The theory was that the (much thinner) ATF was a lot kinder to the bronze synchro's and bushes than thick gearbox oil, which didn't "get in" to those bushes until the oil warmed up. Anyway, if there's no seals, you don't have much choice, but to use a thick oil. Cheers, Terry.

[simon#42]

in the days before you could get specialised light gear oil for bikes we all used atf in racing lc and tz yamaha boxes with good results , i think ep90 will be a better choice for martins gearbox though [ some might stay in it ]

[Bankerdanny]

I spent about $100 earlier this year on a cheap standup hydraulic press from Harbor Freight when I had to replace a failed wheel bearing on my now sold Saab for the 4th time. I got tired of paying $75 to a local auto parts store to do it and pounding the hub out of the strut assembly to get to the bearing (which I did the first time) took a couple hours with a big ass hammer and vice. With the press, it took less than 15 minutes to press out the hub and bearing and the install the new bearing and reinstall the hub. And it was a one man job. Well worth the cost of the tool.