Author Topic: TRIBSA  (Read 35761 times)

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Offline Trevor from Warragul

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #200 on: March 11, 2017, 04:45:34 PM »
A smear of J-B Weld will fill those gouges nicely...
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Offline martin99

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #201 on: March 11, 2017, 04:48:43 PM »
A smear of J-B Weld will fill those gouges nicely...

Yep, I'll be doing that too  ;)
Build threads:
77 750F2 Refresh Project http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144075.0
TRIBSA http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,160296.0.html

1977 CB750 F2
1958 Norton Model 99
2011 Triumph Street Triple 675

Offline Don R

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #202 on: March 11, 2017, 08:55:18 PM »
 A chap stick also works well to keep one side of the gasket from sticking. Before the reusable carb gaskets we did this to our Holley float bowl gaskets.
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #203 on: March 11, 2017, 09:28:27 PM »
Looks great Martin, although I'd argue that a cereal box makes a great gasket if you've nothing else on hand. Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #204 on: March 13, 2017, 08:13:10 PM »
............A grocery bag would be closer to factory spec for thickness ;)...........if you glassed the surfaces they can be mated with gasket sealer only.........applied thinly with a small brush.
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #205 on: March 14, 2017, 04:15:37 AM »
Yep, one of my old Army OC's (Officer Commanding) was a Pommie sh1tbox fan, but whenever he bought a new/old Triumph, Norton, BSA etc, he'd disassemble the engine and get an engineer friend to skim every engine/gearbox case section on his surface grinder, and boasted that they didn't leak oil after that.

I was riding my first CB750 K1 at the time, so I'd ask him if his engineer friend could also fix the electrics, carburation, vibration, smoke, weeping suspension, #$%*ty brakes and lack of horsepower? This was always the time when he'd tell me to fcuk off out of his office, which I thought was a bit vulgar for an educated senior officer............ ;D     
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline martin99

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #206 on: March 14, 2017, 04:16:01 PM »
............A grocery bag would be closer to factory spec for thickness ;)...........if you glassed the surfaces they can be mated with gasket sealer only.........applied thinly with a small brush.

Yep, kicking myself for missing this tbh, should have glassed the surfaces whilst it was all apart.

Yep, one of my old Army OC's (Officer Commanding) was a Pommie sh1tbox fan, but whenever he bought a new/old Triumph, Norton, BSA etc, he'd disassemble the engine and get an engineer friend to skim every engine/gearbox case section on his surface grinder, and boasted that they didn't leak oil after that.

I was riding my first CB750 K1 at the time, so I'd ask him if his engineer friend could also fix the electrics, carburation, vibration, smoke, weeping suspension, #$%*ty brakes and lack of horsepower? This was always the time when he'd tell me to fcuk off out of his office, which I thought was a bit vulgar for an educated senior officer............ ;D     

I'll have you know that 6 volt dynamo electrics are state of the art over here and perfectly adequate for our well-lit and smooth tarmac roads, spitting back through the carb and fouled plugs is entirely normal, and the front brake is supposed to be lubricated with fork oil. Unfortunately both exhausts fell off the last time I took it out due to vibration, so I can't comment on your scathing remarks about smoke and horsepower. I should tell you to fcuk off out of my office at this point, but then I wouldn't have any Harley owners to take the piss out of. ;D
Build threads:
77 750F2 Refresh Project http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144075.0
TRIBSA http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,160296.0.html

1977 CB750 F2
1958 Norton Model 99
2011 Triumph Street Triple 675

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #207 on: March 14, 2017, 04:41:24 PM »
Daaayyyyammmmm! ;D
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #208 on: March 14, 2017, 05:30:43 PM »
Ha ha, well I don't remember all that much from my time in that grey, wet, miserable place you call home Martin, but I do remember coin operated electricity meters in some of the hotels and B&B's we stayed at, the light bulbs must have been at least 10 watts, because most of these places were dark and cold, like their owners. I was just happy we were there in summer........... ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline martin99

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #209 on: March 14, 2017, 11:59:33 PM »
Er, did any of these places have a bowl of water on the floor Terry?....... And 'Fido' or 'Rover' written above the door?..........I think I may have worked out what happened all those years ago........ ;D
Build threads:
77 750F2 Refresh Project http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144075.0
TRIBSA http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,160296.0.html

1977 CB750 F2
1958 Norton Model 99
2011 Triumph Street Triple 675

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #210 on: March 15, 2017, 01:31:05 AM »
Ha ha, no mate, think about the hotel the Griswolds stayed at in "European Vacation", and that was about the standard of all of the places we stayed in, in Britain.

I did find a petrified dog turd under the TV set at one place we stayed at, but it was about as close as we got to any dog houses. This was in the early 1970's of course, so I'm sure things have improved in the 21st century, probably......... ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline grcamna2

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #211 on: March 15, 2017, 06:54:57 AM »
Lol  :o  ;D  :)
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  I love the small ones too !
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Offline martin99

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #212 on: April 16, 2017, 01:59:47 PM »
Time for an update. Got to admit I went a little off the boil with this for the past few weeks, got my mojo back now though so there's been a bit more progress, and another problem found. ::)

Carb time. This is a Monobloc 376, which wouldn't have been original equipment on a 1953 motor. It would have had a pre-Monobloc 276, with a remote float bowl. The chances of picking up a 276 in good condition are slim, and parts for them are as rare as hen's teeth. From what I can tell a lot of these early engines now run the later carb, which is still made by Amal and parts are plentiful. This one comes with a nice velocity stack with a mesh screen which should prevent the ingress of a wayward pigeon but probably won't filter out much else. Shouldn't be a problem, the rain usually keeps the dust down over here...




Of course it was a complete mess inside  but it didn't take too long to clean up, these are a bit more agricultural than what you'd expect to find on your SOHC4. Here's a pic of the jet block and another of the totally plugged main jet. Remember this bike was running - fcuk knows how!





And more assorted bits that actually cleaned up quite well after a few cycles in my ultra-cheap and usually ineffective ultrasonic  cleaner....

 

The mounting flange was bowed through overtightening, very common on these, and needed to be glassed. Here you can see how much it had distorted...



And now nice and flat (yes, lots of superfluous pictures, but we do like pictures don't we  ;D...



Back together...



And on the bike. This picture doesn't really tell the full story. I had to make up a new choke cable and had to buy another throttle cable. Unusually a PO had chosen to put the choke lever on the frame rather than the handlebar, it's a bit quirky but I quite like it so I did the same, if nothing else it'll clean up the bars a tad...



And so onto the primary. I spent a few hours glassing the mating surfaces of the inner and outer primary case, this is another joint that doesn't have a gasket so I'll be using Threebond when I come to button it up. The clutch got a good clean in paraffin before being dried off and then I left the fibre discs soaking in TQF for a few hours. I run TQF in my Norton primary case with no problems with clutch slip so that's what will be going in this one...



On the home straight then right? Well that's what I thought until I fitted the engine sprocket and clutch basket. The problem is probably not too obvious in this view which is why I hadn't noticed anything during the dismantling...



 bit clearer from this angle - those sprockets look out of line to you? ;D...



A straightedge across the flat of the front sprocket shows a deflection of around a 1/4 inch...



No, I haven't lost any bits, that's got to be how it was when I took it apart. Might have been ok for the PO, but I can't live with that. I'm thinking the easiest thing to do is to make a spacer to go behind the engine sprocket. This bugger is fighting me all the way!

 :)





Build threads:
77 750F2 Refresh Project http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144075.0
TRIBSA http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,160296.0.html

1977 CB750 F2
1958 Norton Model 99
2011 Triumph Street Triple 675

Offline simon#42

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #213 on: April 16, 2017, 02:24:37 PM »
will you have any splines left to locate the sprocket after you space it out that far martin ?

is there anything behind the clutch you can modify instead

Offline martin99

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #214 on: April 16, 2017, 03:17:05 PM »
There's a fair sized boss on the rear of that front sprocket that can't be seen in the photo, but it's probably half as long again as the outside boss so there's a good length of spline. I'm hoping it will work. I need to measure everything up properly but that's a job for tomorrow because I'm on the piss now.

Not much room behind the clutch, it might go back half the distance but I don't know how I'd be able to do it, there's an internal 'stop' in the clutch hub that prevents it going back further. It just wasn't very well thought out in the first place I don't reckon. I don't know what other Tribsa builders do, machine a bit off the splined length of the layshaft? You can't really pull the gearbox back because then you'd have a problem with final drive alignment. Please tell me if I'm talking bollocks, I appreciate any suggestions and help on this one.

One thing I do remember from taking it apart was that the primary chain split link was toward the inner case and there were witness marks on the case behind the front sprocket where the pins had been rubbing, the link clip was also facing in the wrong direction. The chain itself is notchy  in a couple of places (no surprise there) so I'll have to get a new one.
Build threads:
77 750F2 Refresh Project http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144075.0
TRIBSA http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,160296.0.html

1977 CB750 F2
1958 Norton Model 99
2011 Triumph Street Triple 675

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #215 on: April 16, 2017, 03:22:36 PM »
Looks lovely Martin, British Engineering at it's finest! Hey is there a big flange on the other side of the engine sprocket? If not, can you turn it around? Looks like that flange would space it out the 1/4" that you need? Otherwise, the original sloppy chain would take care of the misalignment......... Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline martin99

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #216 on: April 16, 2017, 03:44:52 PM »
Flange. That's what I meant but I called it a boss ;D

Btw, see what I did there Terry? I used your semi-colon and capital D trick ;D

Oops I did it again.
Build threads:
77 750F2 Refresh Project http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144075.0
TRIBSA http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,160296.0.html

1977 CB750 F2
1958 Norton Model 99
2011 Triumph Street Triple 675

Offline scottly

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #217 on: April 16, 2017, 06:29:22 PM »
I think Terry nailed it. ;) "There's sh*t in this box!!??" " Turn her over.."  ::)
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline martin99

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #218 on: April 17, 2017, 12:53:11 AM »
The flange behind the sprocket is deeper than the one in front, turning it over will make the misalignment worse  ::)
Build threads:
77 750F2 Refresh Project http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144075.0
TRIBSA http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,160296.0.html

1977 CB750 F2
1958 Norton Model 99
2011 Triumph Street Triple 675

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #219 on: April 17, 2017, 01:39:08 AM »
No worries, can you buy offset sprockets from engineering shops in soggy old Pommyland Martin? Even if they don't have splined sprockets an engineering shop could cut a spline for you. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline martin99

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #220 on: April 18, 2017, 01:45:03 PM »
Being the cheapskate that I am I thought I'd try and remedy the misalignment situation by spacing out the engine sprocket, before going down the route (and expense) of having a new sprocket especially made. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, if it don't work at least I won't have buggered anything up by trying  ;D.

As every motorcycle enthusiast worth his salt knows, a 22mm impact socket has the same outer diameter - give or take a gnat's cock - as the flange on a Triumph engine sprocket. The following pics tell the story of an Easter Monday afternoon spent in the garage.

The donor prepared for surgery...



And the donated part...



Now I actually spent quite a bit of time getting this as square as possible. It's not lathe-perfect, but then neither is the shoulder it needs to butt up against. It is very, very close to perfect though, you get pretty good with a file when you don't possess a lathe.

A bit more filing and I ended up with this...



After glassing out the file marks it ended up a tad under the 6mm thickness I was looking for. Here it is on the crank, it leaves just about 1/2" on the splines...





The sprocket feels well planted when it slides onto the splines, and there's enough thread for the nut to go fully on with two or three threads protruding...



Things are now lining up quite nicely...



Unless any of my learned friends on here warn me sufficiently to induce extreme paranoia, I'm thinking I will probably go with this and call the job a good'un. What do you reckon?

 :)

Build threads:
77 750F2 Refresh Project http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144075.0
TRIBSA http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,160296.0.html

1977 CB750 F2
1958 Norton Model 99
2011 Triumph Street Triple 675

Offline simon#42

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #221 on: April 18, 2017, 02:10:10 PM »
looks good to me

Offline martin99

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #222 on: April 18, 2017, 02:41:48 PM »
Thanks for posting so quick Simon, I value your opinion and was secretly hoping you would not disapprove!
Build threads:
77 750F2 Refresh Project http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144075.0
TRIBSA http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,160296.0.html

1977 CB750 F2
1958 Norton Model 99
2011 Triumph Street Triple 675

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #223 on: April 18, 2017, 07:17:07 PM »
That is an excellent job Martin, well done! I know that in some bikes they leave a little extra spline so that the sprocket can "float" to assist with alignment (early CB750's for example) but I don't think that will matter. Good filing skills! Cheers, Terry. ;D 
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline Stev-o

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Re: TRIBSA
« Reply #224 on: April 18, 2017, 07:53:20 PM »
+1....great job.  And Uncle Terry likes it...wow!
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........