Topic: Jakal cb550 project

[Darren Jakal]

Thanks calj737,

Plates are flat and all measure around 1.62mm (except for the double one at 4.75mm).

Friction discs are all about 2.7mm (+ or - .01mm). The only numbers I have are for earlier 350 and 500 or 550 4s from Clymer (72 - 74). They state 2.3mm for the 350F and 3.0mm for the 500/550. Hoping 2.7 is right for this bike.

Anyone know?

Cheers, Darren

[Darren Jakal]

Great to see so many 550 builds going on. I've been learning a lot by reading through these threads and it's easy to spend time doing so because working on my own project has been great fun.

My project is all about low budget and dependability and the more I look at this bike the more I fall in love with its curves. For 78 this was pretty cool mass production and my plan is to start with a bike that operates and performs like it was intended to originally. It won't be a restoration because I want do some slight modifications with respect to lighting, suspension, brakes and tires and other safety related upgrades, but I'll leave the engine stock (do the top end) and most of the bones (frame, swing arm, electrical, triple, forks, rims and so on) will remain original. I'm old I know what it's like to drive old machines.

Took a look in the tank (there's still gas in it) and it doesn't look bad. Just surface rust. I'll leave it for now, it will be one of the last things I do.

Later, Darren

[Darren Jakal]

Not a lot of progress on the bike itself. I'm now believing more and more in the "make it work then make it pretty" camp and while I have received my bronze swing arm bushings and tapered headset bearings from twowheelfrank I'm holding off taking it all apart until I can get the rest of the parts assembled.

My plan is to take it all apart for painting or plating but when I start to disassemble the swing arm and feel how solid it is (same with front end) I think why take it all apart now for painting/plating when it still seems to be perfectly fine? Why not get the rest of the bike together over the winter and make sure it is running for next summer. Once I have it all together and working well then (next winter I think) I will pull it all apart again for final detailing (detabbing, painting, plating etc).

So I'm busy getting parts, building stands and getting tools. I inherited my fathers old tools and was happy to find his old Vessel impact driver. He was a bodyman starting in the 50's so there are some interesting tools in his tool chest.

Anyway, thanks again to all the contributors for ideas and inspirations,

Cheers, Darren

[Darren Jakal]

Progress is being made, but evidence is scarce. I've been sourcing parts and making a frame stand. Work is busy as the school year is in full swing.

I'm cleaning the other set of PD46C carbs I picked up and this time I'm really trying to preserve their iridescence. I'm really liking the surface quality of a lot of these Honda parts. Many of the fasteners are still that bright zinc and look new and the polished aluminum is my kind of finish: diy cheap sweat equity.

Hope to have the bike on the frame next week and start on the front end.

Cheers, Darren

[Darren Jakal]

Got the bike frame on a stand. Stand is made of left overs from another project and it's not finished.

I'll make another part that will hold up the rear end so I can get the centre stand off. Works ok for getting to the front end for now.

Cheers, Darren

[Darren Jakal]

Update:

So it’s a “run what you brung” kind of project and after some interesting research on this forum I’ve concluded that this bike has a cb450 rear wheel. During my research I came across this thread:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=150358.0

I was originally searching for “play in the sprocket carrier” because I thought there was some play in this wheel. Anyway there is a guy called SoyBoySigh that posted a response that was not entirely enjoyed by all that saw it.

I however was somewhat fascinated and I eventually read the whole thing because he goes on about the different cush drives and some problems with the 550 system. He even goes on postulating about using a cb350 rear wheel because of the simpler design. Well this things got maybe a 450 on it and it looks solid and feels great. Again I’m amazed at how well this bike is preserved after spending something like 26 years outside under a tarp. If this things will work with a 16 / 35 sprocket set up and the right spacers I’m running with it.

So I’m breaking the wheels down to get them clean, inspect and repair if needed. I’ve ordered a bunch of parts from a guy down east. I know there are probably some on here that could supply my needs, but the combination of dollar/peso exchange, shipping costs and customs crap makes it much easier to just buy from a fellow Canuck. He has rebuilt original stator coils, original good quality field coils (all tested and known to work) and many other spare parts that I need. Working out well so far.

I’m also trying out every method I can for doing things just for the hell of it. I’ve melted wax into stuck bolts to loosen them, I’ve sanded chrome with coke and tinfoil, I’ve heated the hell out of stuff and I bought a very fine brass brush that I use on a drill at slow speed to take off oxidization. I plan on trying a few ways to clean and prepare the tank and I was hoping to see an update from sweatshirtolympics on removing stuck studs using alum.

I’m going to give the polished and unfinished thing a go for this year and next winter I will decide the final finish (my hope is that by then it will all be polished, but we’ll see, it is tedious). Pictures below are of the wheels after first clean and starting to remove the oxidation.
 
I really like the look of these tires and would like to replicate the look. Is this a bad idea? And can tires like this still be found?

Cheers, Darren

[Darren Jakal]

I picked up an extra set of PD46C and have started getting them cleaned up.

It’s apparent that someone was in here before me and I found that one float was badly twisted. The float with the twist is also the one with the bad “shock spring” (for lack of a better term) on the float needle valve. This float looked wrong because this spring is completely depressed inside the needle valve, so it doesn’t push the tab up like the others when they are leaned backwards and the float sits low.

It looks like instead of noticing and fixing the “shock spring” or replacing the needle valve (like I’m doing) the PO tried to bend the float tab….and they did it quite badly, twisting it and bending the tab poorly.

I have been able to straighten up that float and now all the floats look OK but the tabs are off. I’ve been looking at a lot of threads on bending these tabs, and I have yet to find an actual picture that shows exactly how to apply the force to bend the tabs.

Wonder if anyone have a few pictures that show how to bend (pry) the tab up and how to bend it down. I’d like to know what to pry against (if that is the way to do it) because I do not want to twist them up like the PO did.

Later, dj

[Darren Jakal]

I’ve been experimenting with the carb body angle for measuring floats and I’m using a method I saw on Youtube.

I’m very lightly blowing through a tube attached to the fuel inlet (on carb 2) as I slowly rotate the carb rack from a horizontal position. I stop the rotation when the needle valves close and I cannot blow through them anymore (carb 2 has the bad needle valve so I close it with my finger).

I’ve measured the angle at 16 degrees (from horizontal) and the float heights are all around 14.5mm (I’ve straightened some of the floats out and bent some tabs so that all are roughly parallel with the float body).

If I increase the angle to say 22 degrees the floats are still just touching the shock springs but not depressing them yet the measurement is almost 2mm different (all around 12.5 or so).

I’ve read many posts on PD46C float heights and I have seen 12.5mm as much as 14.5mm. With these two measurements I think I will leave them alone for now.

Later, dj

[Darren Jakal]

I received some more parts in the mail (stator, field coil, cover, shifter, gaskets and airbox top).

Winter is here and I’m very glad to have taken this on as a winter project. I’ve had plenty of time to research my moves and I’m really grateful to those that have posted about their experiences.

I am trying to do this low budget, but I’m willing to put in some sweat. Now I’m all about working smarter and not harder and this project is not some kind of “right of passage” (I just want to ride a solid dependable bike) so I’m always looking for a better (and easier) way to do things.

I’ve see beautiful examples of polished aluminum and have read about the effort to get there. Well I like the polished look and found a bunch of ways to go about it, but I decided to try a way from RRR Tool Solutions

http://www.rrrtoolsolutions.com/articles/engine-cases-and-cylinder-finishing/

(I think he is a member here).

This method uses a very fine wire brass wheel at slower speeds to remove oxidation. I use the wheel in a corded variable speed drill on the engine block and made a simple adaptor to run it on the lathe (at about 1200 rpms) to do parts that can be removed. I then use polishing wheels with red and then green abrasive at bench grind speeds (approx. 3500 rpms).

These three pieces have about an hour of effort into each and at this rate I will probably give them some more love and see just how polished I can get them before it becomes a problem.

That’s it for now. Slow and steady, dj

[Darren Jakal]

I've been cleaning and polishing but I wanted to try making some stuff and as this bike is missing some parts I thought I would try some things.

I received a air box scoop and thought it was cool (anyone know what it's from) so I decided to try and make a side cover scoop to help feed it. I want to hammer it out of aluminium eventually and so I made a wooden form from a sketch model. I make forms fat at first and pull some quick styrene positives so that I can check for fit. I need to make some adjustments to this one for fit and then I will reform it until I have it where I want for aluminum forming (a little simpler).

Later, dj

[Darren Jakal]

Modified mock-ups of side cover. Getting close to proper fit.

Shaped aluminium is next.

[Darren Jakal]

Trying out some stuff on the rear wheel.

Built a soda blaster for a grand total of $0 (1/2 kilo of soda for $1.59). Useful for getting inside the spokes to clean the hub. Used diet coke and aluminum on the rims (works OK).

Fine brass brush in the corded drill on the hub and spokes. Sanded spokes with fine paper. Polished brake cover with cloth wheel on the drill (bench grinder is better but I don't have one at home).

This kind of work is never done, as it can always be more polished. Good thing I like the look of oxidized aluminium on old things (what I euphemistically call a "patina"  ).

slow and steady, dj

[Darren Jakal]

I picked up some Jardine 4 into 2 exhaust and was also able to acquire a new slow jet to replace what looked to be a manufactures defect (it had only 6 emulsion holes instead of eight). I was also able to get a float needle valve, so now I have two complete refurbished stock PD46C carbs.

The guy I bought the exhaust from used it on his 350 and he was selling it because it never fit the 350 right. Anyway I think he squeezed it a bit to get it on his bike and I had to do a bit of wrestling to get it on the 550, but once I got it started it all sucked up very nice. These pipes are effing cool.

I'll get new copper gaskets and polish them up some more.

Coming together slow but sure,

later, dj

[joeyvans]

Damn... I need to make myself an engine stand like that. If anything, just to display one of my spare 550 motors.

Coming along, man. Everything looks great!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Darren Jakal]

Hey thanks Joey,

I'm having fun and getting a lot out of this project. I can haul the engine outside when it's nice. I was doing some soda blasting this morning and thought I would get a few shots.

cheers, dj

[Darren Jakal]

Looking at the front brakes. My M.O. is to take things apart, give them an initial clean and inspect them. If they are parts that are out of spec or can be replaced with modern (better) equivalents, like tapered bearings and bronze bushings, then I replace them.

The bike sat outside for probably 25 years and while it is well preserved, brakes are no place to be stingy. This is what the parts look like after an initial clean with very dilute pinesol, rinsed well, blown dry and then cleaned with brake cleaner and blown dry again.

I would love to hear opinions on standard practice for putting an old bike back on the road safely.

cheers, Darren

[Darren Jakal]

Not much to show. I had an unexpected move at the end of November and the bike now lives in a Sea Can.

-20C and colder for a couple of weeks and working on a bike in a frozen sea can is not going to happen. I managed to get the forks cleaned up before things shut down.

Happy holidays everyone!

Darren

[bill440cars]

      Looking pretty cool, with this build. Also, interested in the motorcycle stand and the piece that attaches to an engine stand, for the Honda engine. I had seen one that looks like it would basically use an automotive engine stand and the upright part of another one, with some adapting. Always like to check out stands and such that have been thought up and built by folks here. 

[Darren Jakal]

Hey Bill,

Glad you enjoy the build, I'm having a blast with it when I can get to it.

Both the engine stand and bike stand are made with left over materials from another project. The engine stand is, of course, an auto engine stand that I adapted using ideas I gathered here. When I make something I usually try to leave things long and then trim at the end in case I need a place to grab or something happens and I want to alter the design.

Anyway I don't plan on splitting the case, but I read enough posts on the potential to split the case with some stands so I decided the incorporate the two uprights that accept 1 inch solid aluminum round bar that can then be used to create a support for a case half.

Check out the picture. I always like to leave my options open and so far they haven't gotten in the way too much.

cheers Darren

[bill440cars]

Hey Bill,

Glad you enjoy the build, I'm having a blast with it when I can get to it.

Both the engine stand and bike stand are made with left over materials from another project. The engine stand is, of course, an auto engine stand that I adapted using ideas I gathered here. When I make something I usually try to leave things long and then trim at the end in case I need a place to grab or something happens and I want to alter the design.

Anyway I don't plan on splitting the case, but I read enough posts on the potential to split the case with some stands so I decided the incorporate the two uprights that accept 1 inch solid aluminum round bar that can then be used to create a support for a case half.

Check out the picture. I always like to leave my options open and so far they haven't gotten in the way too much.

cheers Darren

            Thank you, Darren. I appreciate your taking the time to talk about the engine stand. I have been looking at doing something, in the way of a stand, myself. So, anything I can come across, that might help me to do mine, will definitely help.   

[RAFster122s]

Godffery's Phenolic piston is the way to go...lots of positives, no negatives.  The pitting on your piston will allow weeping or seal wear which is not good.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Godffery's Phenolic piston is the way to go...lots of positives, no negatives.  The pitting on your piston will allow weeping or seal wear which is not good.

Yes! It's lighter and corrosion proof. No brainier!

[Darren Jakal]

Hey, thanks guys for your interest in my humble project. This place is a fantastic resource and motivator. Unfortunately I've had to move recently and work on the bike has been slow (it’s also been -20C for awhile and skiing is on, too). The bike is now housed in a 20 foot seacan I'm modifying to be a studio / workshop (an experiment I call CoHo for Container Home). So, the move has put me a ways away from my old neighbour and friend who happens to be among many things a top level mechanic, machinist, gunsmith etc, so I'm really going to be dependent on this place in the next few months to get me through this build.

Thanks for your help with the brake piston Godffery and anyone else that can offer information or advice on getting an old bike like this one back on the road safely.

What about rebuilding the master cylinder? What are the must-replace parts and what can you safely keep? I haven't tried taking it apart yet as I'm afraid of damaging the outer rubber seal (or is this a must-replace part as it's almost 40 years old, although I'm amazed at how good the rubber on this bike is) and I don't think I have the tools to get the various clips out.

Anyway, I’ll continue to do my own searches and when I’m ready to move on any of this I will post more specific questions in the main forum.

Thanks again everyone! Happy New Year!
Darren

[RAFster122s]

UI don't recall if it was 4 into 1 or cb750supply that carries the same generic repro master cylinder for less than most rebuild kits.  It is around $50 at DavidSilversSpares.com but far less at either of the two aforementioned places.  Just easier to bolt on a replacement than go through the trouble of a rebuild.

You can then disassembly yours without worry and if you find a replacement rebuild kit you can redo it if you want the original.  Once disassembled you can determine if the bore is good and just needs cleaning and new seals/rebuild kit.

[Godffery]

 If there was no brown Muck in your reservoir, then you may be able to just flush some fresh fluid threw it and off you go.  I do however recommend you replace your old rubber lines. Braided stainless is the best but not "necessary".
 If you intend on going with twin discs, then you will want to upgrade to a larger master anyway.