Author Topic: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd  (Read 7091 times)

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Offline 754

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2016, 08:01:28 PM »
I dont even feel like commenting at this point, and I like helping people..

But Dude..do you really have to break 100 bux worth of parts before you decide to get the   80 bux worth of manual ?  ?

 And guess what...we dont even want to know what you tried to do to get the head off the cylinder...
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Rostuff

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2016, 10:51:43 PM »
I dont even feel like commenting at this point, and I like helping people..

But Dude..do you really have to break 100 bux worth of parts before you decide to get the   80 bux worth of manual ?  ?

 And guess what...we dont even want to know what you tried to do to get the head off the cylinder...
Sorry, what did I break? And since I'm feeling generous I'll tell you what I did to "get the head off the cylinder": I pulled upwards both hands! Thing stuck into my hands in one piece, problem fixed. Now I'm going to loosen bolts 19 to 22 and have a better look at them cylinders. Another problem fixed.

What a beautiful and relaxing hobby <3

But when I think about all the beautiful miles my shiny girl gave me..... DuDe I feel like sharing this with you underserving ones

« Last Edit: October 10, 2016, 11:02:40 PM by Rostuff »

Offline 70CB750

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2016, 03:02:33 AM »




Guess where is the problem? :D


Could it be the #2 super-low compression piston?

That is a feature, helps witth the PCV system.

Rostuff:  It would not hurt if you curbed your attitude.

Prokop
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I love it when parts come together.

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Offline Rostuff

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2016, 04:14:13 AM »
Lol Wut? My attitude?

I've asked which bolt to unscrew next since I didn't see any more left, I've received as answers that people like me dies on their motorbike, and if they don't die they surely break their engines while tearing them down, and if they don't then they surely must make some disaster while trying to put them back together.

Then another old f.... veteran jumped onboard to tell me I had to break a 100$ piece to understand I had to spend 80$ on The Book while:
1- I didn't break anything
2- In my 10-ish post count I've said already probably 4 times that I wanted to have a look at the pistons BEFORE purchasing the book, which I surely wanted to purchase IF the engine was worth fixing.

But yeah, my attitude DuDe!

Now, mods can close the thread and do whatever they like but I'm only asking for simple advices so people not having to contribute in any positive way can feel free to chill the heck down a couple of notches.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 04:17:37 AM by Rostuff »

Offline Rostuff

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2016, 04:22:39 AM »
By the way, thanks for telling me about bolts 19-22, I removed them but still the head is kinda superglued on the "stage 2". Don't worry, I'll figure it out.

Offline calj737

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2016, 06:08:28 AM »
Just take a large hammer to it and whack the #$%*e out of it. But swing lazily so as not to disrupt your chill 'tude. Then, when you reassemble the engine and find it leaks oil, has terrible compression, just saw off the exhaust under your footpads, slap on some pods, and enjoy your new custom ground-up cafe/bobber. You won't know any difference between a proper running bike and some slapped together POS, nor will any future owner who buys it.

Super chill, too cool. You rock, Dude. Oh, and ride in short sleeves and a vintage helmet because it looks chill. Never mind the road rash, chicks dig road pizza.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline Rostuff

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2016, 07:10:49 AM »
Just take a large hammer to it and whack the #$%*e out of it. But swing lazily so as not to disrupt your chill 'tude. Then, when you reassemble the engine and find it leaks oil, has terrible compression, just saw off the exhaust under your footpads, slap on some pods, and enjoy your new custom ground-up cafe/bobber. You won't know any difference between a proper running bike and some slapped together POS, nor will any future owner who buys it.

Super chill, too cool. You rock, Dude. Oh, and ride in short sleeves and a vintage helmet because it looks chill. Never mind the road rash, chicks dig road pizza.
Things like this may happen after 12.900 posts of... uhm.... leet internet mechanistry. Be advised all ye who enter here!

Offline 70CB750

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2016, 07:29:59 AM »
Lol Wut? My attitude?

I've asked which bolt to unscrew next since I didn't see any more left, I've received as answers that people like me dies on their motorbike, and if they don't die they surely break their engines while tearing them down, and if they don't then they surely must make some disaster while trying to put them back together.

Then another old f.... veteran jumped onboard to tell me I had to break a 100$ piece to understand I had to spend 80$ on The Book while:
1- I didn't break anything
2- In my 10-ish post count I've said already probably 4 times that I wanted to have a look at the pistons BEFORE purchasing the book, which I surely wanted to purchase IF the engine was worth fixing.

But yeah, my attitude DuDe!

Now, mods can close the thread and do whatever they like but I'm only asking for simple advices so people not having to contribute in any positive way can feel free to chill the heck down a couple of notches.

I see JWilde award in your future  ;D

Good luck
Prokop
_______________
Pure Gas - find ethanol free gas station near you

I love it when parts come together.

Dorothy - my CB750
CB750K3F - The Red
Sidecar


CB900C

2006 KLR650

Offline Scott S

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2016, 08:01:15 AM »
Everybody play nice now.....

 To the O.P.:
 You're getting sage advice from very experienced guys. Try to listen and learn.
'71 CB500 K0
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'81 Yamaha XS650

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2016, 08:47:41 AM »
Rostuff,

I think these more experienced "veterans" are just trying to save you from some common pitfalls that can be costly and/or time consuming.  We have seen many newbies rush in to engine breakdowns/rebuilds and really do some unnecessary damage. And FYI, the Hondaman book is a great reference for the entire bike, not just rebuilding a motor.  You might also want to watch Dino's Hack-a-Week videos/build for some step by step reference.  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,135688.0.html  Or not.  It's just friendly advice.

And now that Scott has rapped the gavel, let's get back to your project.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline Rostuff

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2016, 10:48:36 AM »
This thread stinks like a pee'd up rug but you know......


Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2016, 11:54:39 AM »
This thread stinks like a pee'd up rug but you know......



Wow.  I try to help out and I get that response?!?!?!
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline Rostuff

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2016, 01:25:39 PM »
How could you possibly think it was adressed to you? Seriously what's the problem here guys? It clearly was meant to those who clearly peed multiple times on the rug and about how amazed I am on continuing posting here.

I think that while I'll go on studying I'll bury this one, change my nick into something like Lazydude Mc Chill or Chillpal Mc Lazydude or something and start over a new thread specifically for Lazy Chill Dudes with Wrenches only.




Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2016, 02:44:28 PM »
How could you possibly think it was adressed to you?

It was logical deduction.  Your post immediately followed mine and made no qualification that it was addressed to someone else.  Instead, it said "you know."  I did not catch anything that indicated it was only addressed to certain members other than me?  So, I'll take your response as a misunderstanding.

People here do not want to see you fail or screw up where many others have before, but they also don't want attitude in exchange.   

You will not always like all of the opinions or advice your posts/threads generate.  If you don't care for the advice, just kindly pass on it.  Or not.  It's up to you. Pulling apart a motor for the first time leaves room for a lot of mistakes.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 04:49:53 PM by CB750 Cafe Racer Fan »
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline martin99

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2016, 02:51:34 PM »
Dicks are like buses on this forum. You can wait ages for one to arrive, then two come at once. Not a precise comparison; I credited JWilde with a bit more intelligence.
Build threads:
77 750F2 Refresh Project http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144075.0
TRIBSA http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,160296.0.html

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Offline edwardmorris

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2016, 03:41:31 PM »
......... I credited JWilde with a bit more intelligence.
HAA!

Does anyone know if he won a HOOTY yet :-X?....... ;D ;D

Offline Rostuff

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #41 on: October 11, 2016, 05:45:40 PM »
You will not always like all of the opinions or advice your posts/threads generate.  If you don't care for the advice, just kindly pass on it.  Or not.  It's up to you. Pulling apart a motor for the first time leaves room for a lot of mistakes.
Believe it or not I'd really like advices but so far, except "buy The Book" the only one arrived from 70CB750 about those bolts I forgot. Then.... well let's just move on. And again, none of this is about you. Just saying.

Dicks are like buses on this forum. You can wait ages for one to arrive, then two come at once. Not a precise comparison; I credited JWilde with a bit more intelligence.
You know, here in Chilllapalooza County we don't know who the heck JWilde is. Shame on us I guess?

Offline 754

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #42 on: October 11, 2016, 07:26:27 PM »
Where you from anyway, around these parts ..folks tend to introduce themselves... That way they can be accepted around here.
 And where did this carter bolt you speak of, come from, never heard that before..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline calj737

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2016, 07:08:27 AM »
Having re-read your thread from top to bottom, I'll offer you some advice.

Get a different motor. The motor before you is trashed and requires a complete, top to bottom rebuild. That will cost you many thousands of dollars and probably 6 months of time. You need at a minimum: 4 new pistons and rings for an overbore, valve guides (probably), probably several valves if not all 8, seats re-cut, and you'll need numerous crank bearings, seals, gaskets, decking of the jugs, milling of the head, and THEN you'll need to diagnose why the motor blew up originally. And this is an important point, because until you discover that, you will only repeat the failure.

What you have is a motor that suffered a catastrophic failure. You posted that you ran the motor 5-10km without oil. That alone will burn up the crank bearings and possible the rod bearings. The heat distortion of at least cylinder 2 (from the detonating piston) is sufficient to require an overbore, which requires the other three to be done. At a minimum, that's about $500 before gaskets and decking.

Your head is glued to the jugs because the heat fused the gasket surfaces. You could have used a different approach to remove it before pulling the assembly loose from the bottom end.

I also have to ask because it's unclear: when releasing the head nuts, did you follow the manual and reverse the torque sequence, and equally untorque them individually? Or did you run around and loosen them up moving across the head in a visual sequence? Why I ask:

This technique of doing things that seem obvious is a trap many "inexperienced" people fall into. It's why we told you early on to buy the book. If you don't release the torque in reverse sequence, you run a very high risk of warping the head. That is why you now need to have it milled flat again. Not doing so, you will never get the head to seal and compress properly. Ever.

You may think us old farts are curmudgeons and would deprive of you of the enthusiasm and excitement of a hobby. That is completely untrue. We would rather help you, mentor you, and see you avoid the mistakes made by too many others. Isn't that why you came here in the first place? To learn? To get help?

So ditch you childish attitude and wannabe hipster lingo, and pay attention. Ask before you do, read and understand section by section the assemblies. Take things apart carefully, bag them up, document the parts, and you can get through this. Lots have already and you can be no different. But stick your foot in your mouth again, and you'll find your thread abandoned by those who would try the most to help you.

In summary; you have 3 options as I see it: 1 - replace the motor with a running motor, 2 - do a half-assed job of putting this together and end up broken down shortly after and ditching the bike, or 3 - prepare to strap in and spend thousand of dollars and many months doing it properly to result in a great running bike, that you will enjoy owning for many years to come.

Choose your path. There's no shortcuts in engine building.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline Rostuff

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #44 on: October 12, 2016, 01:01:46 PM »
Well that was a pretty awesome post calj. If only you had it posted earlier! LoL

Hey I'm kidding ok? Don't want to start fussing about nothing again right? Anyway, back to the topic, as I stated in the very first post, my hopes for the engine to be fixable weren't so high, exactly for the reasons you detailed: detonation in the cylinder, prolonged low compression (months/year), pieces of metal going around at least one cylinder (I actually suspected 2 were inolved, in fact I though the broken one was the 1st not the 2nd, which already had the low compression issue) cracked cylinders/rods/crankshaft, valves and whatever else. Having a look at the cylinders gave me some hope again but I still have to bring it to a friend for some proper measurements (ovalization, bearings and such).

After reading what you said I think it's pretty much game over again. The one thing I wanted to avoid was the overbore and change of the rods/crankshaft. I was fine about changing all the pistons and bearings eventually, but only if the crankshaft and rods were in "mint" (note commas) conditions, which probably aren't.

As for the warped head, I must say I didn't untorque them in the reversed sequence, but I used a criss-cross pattern going from the center to the sides, very carefully but only that. Had no idea I risked to warp it. I'll have it checked but again, we're probably talking of a dead motor anyway so.... I'll see, now I'm back to work (real work, not chill hobby in garage) so I think nothing will happen before the next week.

Anyway, keep the good post coming. I knew you could do better  ;D
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 01:09:01 PM by Rostuff »

Offline 754

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #45 on: October 12, 2016, 01:18:43 PM »
Head is likely ok for flat as it is still flat stuck.. But detonation may have got the  chamber.
Check the rods for wiggle , the one with the holed piston may be much looser..
 They are pretty tough.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 02:50:12 PM by 754 »
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Rostuff

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #46 on: October 12, 2016, 01:40:52 PM »
I will but I'm already ebaying for a new old one.

And thinking were to place the old one in my bedroom :D

Offline calj737

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #47 on: October 12, 2016, 04:19:19 PM »
The "rods" and "crank" are probably just fine. But the bearings for the crank and the rods may be at issue. If you did need new rods, theres a company in Australia (RPE) that is posting on this forum, brand new, H beam rods for about $500 USD. I detect you're not domestic, but that price is still very appealing. And you can get through eBay a new set of cast pistons and rings from a company CruzinImage for an 836 bore (overbore is probably no different in price from 0.25 to 3.0) for about $120USD. Thats cheap, and they're decent.

Even though the head may not have been warped from torque release, I suspect it will need to be milled a few 0.00s due to the damage and poor running. Just practical to be thorough.

Biggest unknown will be material from piston swagging around in the lower end. Lord knows what became of that stuff...
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline MickB

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #48 on: October 12, 2016, 04:55:17 PM »
Cal you've got your ear to the ground, 750 rods made in Oz! You're on the ball.

Offline calj737

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Re: CB750 Four K3 - Wannabe Restor'd
« Reply #49 on: October 12, 2016, 05:14:51 PM »
Cal you've got your ear to the ground, 750 rods made in Oz! You're on the ball.
How you going to be helpful to many if you only look locally?  ;)

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,161400.0.html
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis