Author Topic: 1977 CB400F Rebuild  (Read 20144 times)

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Offline 503400f

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1977 CB400F Rebuild
« on: September 28, 2016, 08:55:18 PM »
Before we get into the motorcycle discussion, how about a little back ground about us?  I say us because there will most likely be two people using the account to update the build thread as time goes on.

The owner of the motorcycle is my girlfriend Stef.  Stef has been riding motorcycles for years.  First started on a Honda S65 and then moved up to a CB400f.  Stef currently owns a 2016 Triumph Street Twin, 1989 Honda Hawk, 1977 CB400F, and a 2009 Honda Metropolitan scooter.  Stef walks dogs for a living....yup i said it, dog walker and petsitter.  Pretty fantastic.

My name is Nick, probably the one you'll hear from mostly.  I've been riding for some time now and don't plan on stopping anytime soon.  I own a 2013 Honda CBR600RR and a 2009 Honda Metropolitan scooter (heavily modified).  Plans to get ahold of a 900F to do my thing with in the future. We both live in Portland where we only get about four months of GOOD riding weather a year. 

Now lets get onto the important thing.  We're currently restoring and building her 1977 Honda CB400F.  She has owned this motorcycle twice.  She bought it a few years ago and really didn't do much but ride it a few times.  Had some electrical issues and had some motor problems.  She had some work done to the engine, pretty much a full rebuild from the bottom up.  The 400 ran pretty well while it was cold, then had some issues once up to temperature.  The time came when she decided she wanted a "new" and motorcycle.  She looked into the new Street Twin and fell in love.  Sold her 400 as well as her 2013 Honda CBR500R to put a chunk down on the Triumph and that was that.  About six months later she came across the 400 back up for sale on craigslist here in town.  One phone call later, the 400 was on its way back to the garage to join the rest.  The guy who had it made a few changes.  He put LED front and rear turn signals on it as well as a LED tail light.  He cut down the front fender a bit and painted the tank Yellow and the side covers Black.  He also had a different seat made and installed. 

This is what the 400 looked like when she sold it the first time.



Then when she got it back it looked like this.



While she does not mind the yellow at all, she would much prefer going back to the original color that came on the 400.  I have about ten years of automotive painting in my background so the paint work is the easy part.  While I have done numerous scooter builds, I have never tacked an actual motorcycle.  She has also never done any kind of rebuild or restoration of any kind.  We sat down and discussed a game plan for what she wanted to do.  Basically decided we wanted to just clean up the whole motorcycle, upgrade the front end with modern brakes, and do the paint scheme that she wants.

Offline 503400f

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Re: 1977 CB400F Rebuild
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2016, 09:12:19 PM »
Begin the demolition!!

Started by getting the motorcycle up on my table i built a few years ago to work on scooters.



One evening worth of work in the books





Built a little engine dolly to be able to move the engine around without throwing my back out



That moment when you send your girlfriend a photo of her motorcycle frame sitting on the ground...


Offline 503400f

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Re: 1977 CB400F Rebuild
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2016, 09:27:58 PM »
planning on replacing most of the bolt hardware throughout the motorcycle so organization is key.  Feel like this will suffice nicely.



Also plan to update the harness a little bit. We will be changing out all the single pin connectors to Duetsch connectors.  Should make the whole entire harness more simple and clean.  Will also be less room for electrical issues like a plug or pin coming apart.




Offline 503400f

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Re: 1977 CB400F Rebuild
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2016, 09:34:56 PM »
Began to pull apart the motor.  Since the whole bottom end has already been done, I am just taking the top off to clean everything and paint the engine silver again. 





Also got everything cleaned and set aside that needs to go get media blasted.  Pretty much having everything powder coated back to black.


Offline marting100

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Re: 1977 CB400F Rebuild
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2016, 05:33:22 AM »
Hi!,
nice project! following
Cheers!
M

Online calj737

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Re: 1977 CB400F Rebuild
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2016, 07:57:49 AM »
Couple things:

Before you send the frame off to powder coat, knock out the top and bottom steering races. Then replace them with tapered bearings. You'll appreciate that later...

The front sprocket looks pretty dodgy. Probably best to invest in a new one, chain and rear sprockets (couldn't see the rear from he pictures) at reassembly.

Deutsch connectors are very nice, but, VERY bulky. Unless you are planning to relocate the harness connections out of the headlight, I doubt you'll have sufficient space. You might use self-locking Molex connectors instead. They're secure, positive locking, and if you dab a touch of dielectric grease on the ends, they're essentially weatherproof. Plus they're much less expensive.

Both the stock and "tweaked" versions look great! She's got a nice bike to work with there-
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline 503400f

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Re: 1977 CB400F Rebuild
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2016, 10:22:58 AM »
Couple things:

Before you send the frame off to powder coat, knock out the top and bottom steering races. Then replace them with tapered bearings. You'll appreciate that later...

The front sprocket looks pretty dodgy. Probably best to invest in a new one, chain and rear sprockets (couldn't see the rear from he pictures) at reassembly.

Deutsch connectors are very nice, but, VERY bulky. Unless you are planning to relocate the harness connections out of the headlight, I doubt you'll have sufficient space. You might use self-locking Molex connectors instead. They're secure, positive locking, and if you dab a touch of dielectric grease on the ends, they're essentially weatherproof. Plus they're much less expensive.

Both the stock and "tweaked" versions look great! She's got a nice bike to work with there-

Thank you for the tips!  The front bearings basically fell apart as soon as I pulled the stem. From reading around everyone agrees a tapered bearing is the way to go.

We have a list of things to "replace" or "upgrade and sprockets are ok the list. Was looking into maybe changing tooth configurations but have not come across any solid information on wether it actually is beneficial or not.

Deutsch connectoes are all I have ever used on anything I've done. I do agree they're bulky I just don't want to have to do anything twice. I'll look into the molex style and do some research. Part of me wanted to relocate the mess that is normally inside the headlight bucket just simply because it's a complete disaster in there haha.

I very much appreciate the tips. I went away from forums for a long time simply due to the not so helpful people and the constant banter and bashing. From poking around here looks like a good group of people on the forum.

Offline 503400f

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Re: 1977 CB400F Rebuild
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2016, 10:24:17 AM »
Hi!,
nice project! following
Cheers!
M

Thanks! Should be a steady flow of updates as things progress. I am finishing my cleaning of the engine today and hopefully will be able to get her sprayed silver again tonight. I've got a fantastic parts washer at work so should make things easier.

Offline marting100

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Re: 1977 CB400F Rebuild
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2016, 11:51:16 AM »
You lucky MF! ;D

Offline 503400f

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Re: 1977 CB400F Rebuild
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2016, 08:18:23 PM »
You lucky MF! ;D

How you know I'm lucky!?!? You don't even know what the girlfriend looks like!!  ;D ;D

Currently sitting here at the shop slowly sanding each engine piece.  Woooohhhoooooo

Offline 503400f

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Re: 1977 CB400F Rebuild
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2016, 09:58:16 PM »
Made some headway on the engine tonight after work.  Used the parts washer to re-clean some things now that i've taken the head off the engine.  Once i got everything cleaned it was onto the painstaking task of sanding everything.  Most of it was pretty easy, until I made it to all the fins.  That was the worst, pretty sure every single one of my fingers on each hand have multiple cuts on them.



After got everything sanded and cleaned it was on to masking, then primer, then paint!







Before shelling out for new ones, I thought we'd see how clean i could get these guys. i've got some sockets that have felt inside them so hopefully the paint doesn't chip or break when i put them on the engine.  If it does, we will just order some. 





Hope to get the rest of the engine done tomorrow night so I can bake everything in the oven to cure it.  Should have the engine back in one piece this weekend.

Online calj737

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Re: 1977 CB400F Rebuild
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2016, 04:08:01 AM »
When you install the tappets, use a slight dab of AntiSieze on the threads. Chase them in by hand and make sure to use fresh O-rings on the underside. They don't need to be super tight, just snug enough for the o-ring to seal.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline marting100

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Re: 1977 CB400F Rebuild
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2016, 05:26:32 AM »
HaHaha, your right, I know nothing about your GF!....( the part cleaner I was referring to ;-).
Nice job on the motor! I think I will send you mine  :D
Did you use hight temp primer and paint like VHT on that motor?
Cheers!
M

Offline 503400f

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Re: 1977 CB400F Rebuild
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2016, 06:21:34 AM »
When you install the tappets, use a slight dab of AntiSieze on the threads. Chase them in by hand and make sure to use fresh O-rings on the underside. They don't need to be super tight, just snug enough for the o-ring to seal.

I was curious if we needed new O-rings or not, thanks for the heads up!

Offline 503400f

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Re: 1977 CB400F Rebuild
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2016, 06:24:32 AM »
HaHaha, your right, I know nothing about your GF!....( the part cleaner I was referring to ;-).
Nice job on the motor! I think I will send you mine  :D
Did you use hight temp primer and paint like VHT on that motor?
Cheers!
M

That is exactly what I used. I have used the stuff on numeripus car engines and a couple of scooters as well. I have always had great success with it. The key is to make sure you actually bake it in the oven after it has cured.

The last thing I did with the VHT was an engine in one of my old civic wagons...


Offline marting100

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Re: 1977 CB400F Rebuild
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2016, 06:54:49 AM »
OK, thanks!..... awesome job on that Civic motor. I like the camo style on the cover.
Great job mate!
Cheers!
M

Offline 503400f

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Re: 1977 CB400F Rebuild
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2016, 06:44:35 PM »
Delivery today!!!


Offline 503400f

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Re: 1977 CB400F Rebuild
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2016, 09:19:18 PM »
After two days of making my fingers bleed...pretty well got the engine cleaned up and painted.





in the oven it all goes...


Offline 503400f

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Re: 1977 CB400F Rebuild
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2016, 09:40:53 PM »
Spent a good hour or so at a local hardware store picking up just about every nut and bolt replacement we're going to need for the rebuild.  Also got most of the engine put back together. 




Online calj737

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Re: 1977 CB400F Rebuild
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2016, 03:14:42 AM »
If the tappet cover threads got paint due to overspray, you might take a few minutes and clean them with a tap (both the cover and plugs) and chase the plug in with a touch of AntiSieze just to clean them up, and insure they don't gall later. And use new o-rings on the plugs.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline marting100

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Re: 1977 CB400F Rebuild
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2016, 05:26:46 AM »
Nice work!!

Offline 503400f

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Re: 1977 CB400F Rebuild
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2016, 05:30:13 PM »
If the tappet cover threads got paint due to overspray, you might take a few minutes and clean them with a tap (both the cover and plugs) and chase the plug in with a touch of AntiSieze just to clean them up, and insure they don't gall later. And use new o-rings on the plugs.

Thanks for the tip! I kept the actual tappet covers overspray free, the valve cover threads got a bit on them.   I have since wiped them out with some paint remover and got the threads all clean.  New O-rings came in our box o parts from a few posts back.  Have come across a few things we forgot to order and will put together another order soon. 

Hopefully Wednesday i can get everything off to the blasters and then get it all powder coated.  Currently have a few feelers out to the front end swap, we will see what happens with that.  Lots of options, just looking to get the most complete option without completly breaking the bank haha.

Nice work!!

Thanks! Engine should be 100% put back together tonight less the two beauty covers.  She hasn't figured out what she wants to do with them quite yet.  Need to pick up a bench polisher and see what kind of work i can do on the header and exhaust.  Contemplating either replacing or sending out to get re-coated.....depends how clean i can get them with some polishing.

Offline 503400f

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Re: 1977 CB400F Rebuild
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2016, 03:30:40 PM »
Pretty well have the motor completely finished up.  After several trips to the hardware store for replacement bits, we're pretty happy with the outcome.





Everyone likes some organized hardware!





Dropped off the frame, swing arm, motor mounts, side stand, center stand, air box / battery box, as well as a mess of "smalls" to get blasted and powder coated gloss black.  SHould be right about $250 for everything.  Pretty excited to get the frame back and begin assembly!

Offline marting100

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Re: 1977 CB400F Rebuild
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2016, 05:34:30 PM »
Awesome work man! You work fast, clean and organized!
Ya I'm am sure you can't wait to get that nice frame back and star assembly.
Must be great when everything is clean or new  8) have fun mate, Cheers!
M

Offline 503400f

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Re: 1977 CB400F Rebuild
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2016, 12:33:31 PM »
Awesome work man! You work fast, clean and organized!
Ya I'm am sure you can't wait to get that nice frame back and star assembly.
Must be great when everything is clean or new  8) have fun mate, Cheers!
M

Clean and organized is the name of the game.  I come for an automotoive refinishing / repair background.  The more clean and organized you are the quicker you get things done and the cleaner the outcome. 

Currently working on attempting to clean up the exhaust and header.  I dont think its going to be doable without a re-coat or replacement.  A lot of pitting in the coating and the harder has some pretty nasty corrosion in a few spots.