Author Topic: Would a vacuum leak ONLY effect idle when the bike is extremely hot??  (Read 2136 times)

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Offline SDmtnbkr

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Hey everyone, so I've been riding my bike regularly (CB750 K5) commuting and it has ran next to perfect, save a few idle issues that I planned on fixing with a vacuum sync (was waiting for parts to come in to make my own kit). My commute is never more than 20min and San Diego is a pretty cool place, even in the summer, so the bike hasn't gotten that hot. Well this weekend I did a road trip down Baja Mexico with some buddies for a bachelor party and it got really hot.

We had to lane split for almost an hour to get to the border in dead stopped traffic (which gets the bike really hot), after a little while the RPMs started getting really high whenever we stopped.... like 3k! The engine would be racing, but if I blipped the throttle they would drop back down to 1,200-1,400-ish and then slowly rise back to around 2k-2,500ish, I would then blip the throttle and they would go down again, but the longer we we were driving slowing between shops the harder it would be to get them to go back down. I had the exact same problem when on the way back to San Diego, which was compounded by the insanely slow lane splitting to beat the 6hr line at the border (no joke, the Border Agent told us we skipped a 6hr line). So now, this week, I have switched campuses and have a 20min commute through traffic that I have to lane split the whole way and the engine is doing the same thing now every time I go to school.

I've been scouring the forums and internet and have come up with a few ideas. I don't think it's a Hung Idle because it doesn't "come down slowly" when revved, it will rev like normal and drop like normal, it would then just start going up slowly, or a little more quickly the hotter it got. I don't feel like I have any loss of power anywhere in the powerband, it pulls like a freight train in all situations EXCEPT for a slight hesitation going from 4th to 5th gear when I'm fully pinned at WOT coming onto the freeway.

I found the carb cleaner test, and tested the carb boots and found that the #1 & 4 definitely have a vacuum leak, but also found that the airbox/Carb boots also leak. I've also found that my actual airbox is deformed and does not seal completely on the long straight side nearest to the carbs.

My bike have MAC 4-1 with a Cone Engineering shorty 12" cone muffler, stock air filter and stock jetting, and I have the idle setup so that when it's cold I have to have the choke wide open and once it starts I need to close it immediately and hold my throttle open a crack until it's fully warmed up. I sit for a little bit before riding and then even if I stop at a light for the next few minutes I need to keep the idle cracked or it will die. Once warmed up good, it sits around 1k-1,200 and sometime dips a little even when warm, so I usually set it to 1,200 when warm so I never have an issue.

My question is this: I realize I need to replace all of these boots, but would just these leaks cause this much havoc on my idle? And if so, why does it only affect my idle when the bike is extremely hot, and not when it's cold or fully warmed up?

Any help is always appreciated!
« Last Edit: September 29, 2016, 06:56:38 PM by SDmtnbkr »

Offline flybox1

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Re: Would a vacuum leak ONLY effect idle when the bike is extremely hot??
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2016, 12:35:37 PM »
Yes, it will effect mixture at any RPM.   Stock jetting will not work with that open CONE slip-on.
The combination of the above will make you really lean(hot), most likely at idle and above 2/3 throttle.
Once all of your boots have been replaced, please perform an idle plug chop, and dial in your IMS so your plugs are a nice light tan.
Then, WOT chop to be ensure your needle main is providing enough fuel to maintain proper mixture levels.
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

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Offline ekpent

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Re: Would a vacuum leak ONLY effect idle when the bike is extremely hot??
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2016, 04:26:41 PM »
 What model of bike do you have out of curiosity after reading all that.

Offline SDmtnbkr

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Re: Would a vacuum leak ONLY effect idle when the bike is extremely hot??
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2016, 06:55:49 PM »
What model of bike do you have out of curiosity after reading all that.

Whoops! CB750 K5  ....I'd edit the original post, thanks.


Yes, it will effect mixture at any RPM.   Stock jetting will not work with that open CONE slip-on.
The combination of the above will make you really lean(hot), most likely at idle and above 2/3 throttle.
Once all of your boots have been replaced, please perform an idle plug chop, and dial in your IMS so your plugs are a nice light tan.
Then, WOT chop to be ensure your needle main is providing enough fuel to maintain proper mixture levels.

Great, thanks for the input! I thought that maybe I'd need a jetting change with the addition of the cone muffler (it had the original MAC 4-1 muffler when I bought it and knew that you didn't need to change the jets for it), but wasn't sure since it was running good otherwise. I will do all of this!

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Would a vacuum leak ONLY effect idle when the bike is extremely hot??
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2016, 08:06:23 PM »
If the gas where you normally live has ethanol in it (like here) and you set the bike up to run pretty well on that, then switching the "real" gasoline, with a vacuum leak in one of more hoses, will make the idle unstable in all sorts of ways. Here in CO, the fuel will boil in the float bowls when sitting it hot, slow traffic: when this happens, the bike can spit, sputter, backfire, and run idle at all sorts of RPMs. When I found some ethanol-free gas, this stopped completely.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Offline SDmtnbkr

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Re: Would a vacuum leak ONLY effect idle when the bike is extremely hot??
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2016, 01:37:55 PM »
Yes, it will effect mixture at any RPM.   Stock jetting will not work with that open CONE slip-on.
The combination of the above will make you really lean(hot), most likely at idle and above 2/3 throttle.
Once all of your boots have been replaced, please perform an idle plug chop, and dial in your IMS so your plugs are a nice light tan.
Then, WOT chop to be ensure your needle main is providing enough fuel to maintain proper mixture levels.

Flybox, since I'm ordering everything for the bike anyway I'd rather just order some different sets of mains jets to be ready to tune with. I've never tuned carb jets before so I have no idea how much to be sizing up.... I have 105's now, should I get 108's & 110's to work with, or a more substantial jump like 110 & 115's?

Offline flybox1

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Re: Would a vacuum leak ONLY effect idle when the bike is extremely hot??
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2016, 02:46:17 PM »
110's should be sufficient. 
You'll spend <1% of your riding time at true WOT.  SD traffic just wont allow it   :P  (My wife is from Oceanside)
The rest will be in the meat of the needle jet, so the main doesnt have to be perfect.
Get the proper OEM Keihin jets from jetsrus.com.  Aftermarket just doesnt cut it in this department.

You MIGHT need to change your pilot jet, but wait on ordering.  The only way to be sure you need to go up size here is with IMS adjustments/plug chops....they will guide you.
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline SDmtnbkr

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Re: Would a vacuum leak ONLY effect idle when the bike is extremely hot??
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2016, 03:41:59 PM »
110's should be sufficient. 
You'll spend <1% of your riding time at true WOT.  SD traffic just wont allow it   :P  (My wife is from Oceanside)
The rest will be in the meat of the needle jet, so the main doesnt have to be perfect.
Get the proper OEM Keihin jets from jetsrus.com.  Aftermarket just doesnt cut it in this department.

You MIGHT need to change your pilot jet, but wait on ordering.  The only way to be sure you need to go up size here is with IMS adjustments/plug chops....they will guide you.

Great, thank so much for the insight.

Offline alacrity

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Re: Would a vacuum leak ONLY effect idle when the bike is extremely hot??
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2016, 01:32:57 PM »
+1 what flybox and Hondaman said...
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