Topic: Build a bike for a customer?

[Don R]

   Who has done this? I've done some race car repair for two great customers. They paid a little up front and then kept up as we went along. Usually I build what I like and sell it. 
   I've got the bike with a signed title right now but the original owner wants his old wreck fixed, he was hit by a drunk driver and always wanted the bike fixed because he bought it new and it pissed him off the drunk took his bike. He recovered, his bike should too. His frame however is toast, one tube telescoped inside it's self near the neck.
  I'm in possession of a nice frame with no tag, title or neck numbers. I'm assuming it was a replacement frame that never got stamped. My plan is to strip the frame down and rebuild it with as many of his original parts as possible. I'm going to cut the wrecked frame to get the motor out, I'm sure it's in a bind. He sold me his parts bikes and new parts too, maybe I can sell them back. I think it had 50,000 miles, a freshen up of the motor is probably in order too. Clean rims, new spokes, bearings brakes tires etc.
  We'll see how serious he is.

[MoMo]

Don,  there is a free app called Hours Tracker, which allows one to program  an hourly rate and punch in and out.  The app keeps track-I use it on my Iphone, just have to remember to punch in and out.  However ,  you can go back and readjust the punch if you forget-I have to do that occasionally.  Welllllll, more than occasionally .  Good luck with the 750 endeavor.  Oh yeah, do you have space for all that?...Larry

[RAFster122s]

Edit > wow, didn't know I had rambled on that much until I submitted the post reply...  skip or read along for points to ponder...
NO this is not a SighBoySigh post....<

You know I see these show about building houses from shipping containers and with a little dress up. You could with stacking of them build a very nice and spacious shop.  Weatherproof the exterior and put a couple inches of foam insultation between it and the soil, install a good drainage system beneath it like a  a "French Drainage system" like earthsheltered and underground houses often use and then bury it above ground to make it energy miserly in summer and winter.  Have a upstairs storage area with a drive up exterior access and a interior ramp & stairs and you could have a sweet shop to store and play with the toys.  Go big when building it making it four forty foot units two deep by two high at least or if you had the space, then make it eight units with four on top and bottom if you had the space for it.  Putting a sliding horizontal door for the ramped section and you could seal the top from the bottom. I would want to put in a system similar to a car lift (or a car lift)possibly as an alternative. Lifts are not terribly difficult to install and can be bought used if you are willing to scour Craigs List and other sources. The hydraulic lifts could be used to make a service elevator between floors or the post lift design with safety latches could be used as a design for the elevator...for those times the weather would not be conducive to opening up or moving between floors. With the safety system of the car post lifts you could make it safer to do this kind of thing as they have safety catches preventing them from collapsing if a hydraulic failure occurs.

Just several hair-brained ideas... 
BTW,  ekpent (Eric) has a bit of space for his collection and I am betting Don has a bit of a nice workshop if this is the Don who also builds and races dragsters and the like.

Heck, I want a huge workspace with a nice house attached...ideal retirement space in my mind.  Making it an earth sheltered building that is super energy efficient would be my idea of how to make it even more affordable in retirement. If it were just me I would have a couple units attached for living and entertaining space for friends.  Using the options available like solar tubes and other natural lighting methods to make the facility efficient and not dark or closterphobic (?spelling?)  Put a few solar panels on the roof or a small garden and maybe a quiet windmill to use some green energy sources to make it a viable long term as well.  The air and moisture handling would have to be designed in and with some solar heating methods used by the underground and earth sheltered folks you can lower your energy bills in the winter if winter is an issue.  Not sure if it would be feasible in the desert SW as the sandy soil gets pretty warm, around Tucson the water pipes are not buried very deep due to the callichie ?spelling? which is a calcium carbonate if I recall correctly in the soil that forms a almost concrete like layer that requires jack hammers or sledge hammers and digging metal bars to break through.  So, they don't build a lot of basements in that area. There cooling is the tougher nut to crack and a metal shipping container would act like an oven and would require a lot of insulation to protect from that heating effect.  Not sure how deep you would need to be in the desert to not have solar heating in the summer. There pole buildings and steel framed buildings tend to have very large doors and some heavy insulation.  The doors to be able to take advantage of any breeze to cool or let heat out so it doesn't get too hot . Otherwise, it has to have a cooling system and that gets expensive for large spaces.
David

[Don R]

 I have a standard two car with a 24x36 on the back of that. My biggest issue is the ratty 40 Chevrolet and 69 firebird project I've had forever (73 and 70 respectively) Anyway in the summer the Dragster's in the trailer, in the winter we switch them out and a car goes in the trailer which is stored. This year I may store the car and keep the trailer here for storing bikes.
 My plan is to sell the bikes to pay for the firebird chassis.

 The PO called and tried to sell me a Goldwing too so I guess the 750 project was my/his wishful thinking.

[RAFster122s]

200 should take it off his hands , right?  Special since it is the 75-78 GL1000...  has that nasty Vesco Rabid Transit fairing that needs paint too.  Everyone knows it has to be a Vetter fairing of course...

Tougue firmly in cheek for the above...

David

[RAFster122s]

 Dang, I forgot to login as SoyBoySigh...  merely kidding although I have experienced pranks on an email list before perpetrated by a member or two years and years ago.  Maybe it is Lucky and one of his alternate personalities...
Funny thing is he (SoyBoySigh) only has 104 posts yet he is infamous on the board...kind of like JWilde's infamy in his own mind...
thanks for the slam/twisted complement/being the straight man, etc....  Cal, knew someone would take the shot...just wounded it would be you.   

[RAFster122s]

So, I'm a zombie now?
 Took a couple targets I had used after getting a S&W.22 target pistol into work when living in Sierra Vista to share with a co worker.  Configuration Manager's reaction who sat in office beside me was she wanted me on her side if she ever needed someone to be shooting back at someone.  I was all over the target but most rounds were in the rings and I was working on getting the gun sighted in.  Fun gun...wish I still had it.  Prefer the .45 230g JHP any day but the .22 is fun inexpensive target shooting.

[BomberMann650]

I read a nat geo article about the Australian underground opal mining town.  Somewhere in the badlands of OZ.  Made me think of this thread 

[RAFster122s]

Sorry Don,   not trying to sidetrack your thread...just having a bit of fun with Cal?  " Mercy" being the term they use dispatching zombies on the campy Z-Nation cable tv show...

So, now we will return from our trip with Alice and the rabbit to the thread topic.

[Don R]

 All in good fun and I'm all about fun.  Sometimes I just throw a thread out there to gauge the group. My guy was hinting and I took it as serious. Guess not.

[RAFster122s]

Sorry this is another book response but on the original topic...it is an interesting idea/topic and most people who do it end up working for peanuts as the amount of time tends to be far more than you can charge a reasonable rate.  I believe that is part of why old bikes tend to be maintained by their owner or a facility that is not the dealer.  The dealers mechanics unless experienced with the old bikes have to learn on your bike and that can lead to broken parts or slower and more costly maintenance when done by a dealer.  That risk of something breaking not related to the original issue and the availability of parts are part of the equation.  Also, dealerships count on the mechanics to do far more work than book rate as that volume of repairs is their bread and butter (profit).
The shops that are independent can face some of those issues but if they worked on one or two Hondas of that time period then many times they do it cheaper and quicker and as long as they aren't charging book rates which are a dealers staple then they can be a more cost effective solution. 

Some of these parrallel concepts are a similar situation for building a bike.  You have that experience and anyone who maintains these bikes  and has experienced several of the issues that come up, then they also have that basis of experience. Not to say a builder is going to be quick enough to recoup the hours and  effort for a build. 
I personally would probably not be successful as a bike builder as I don't rush when working on something unless under a time pressure.  If you have an established notority like Cognimoto or other builders who turn out very desireable and beautiful bikes then you can charge the big dollars for that work.  Otherwise sometimes you price something on what it would be worth to do something.  As long as you have a reasonable expectation of the value of the work, then you can expect that to be met...but we all have seen the insanity that many have on the value of their property when you see essentially parts bikes priced at restored or spotless original's prices.

I am glad this guy revealed that he was a flake on that impression or question he posed to you.  That you considered doing it speaks to your character and that you have a kind heart.

I know a guy who has a shop working on cars and he has had customers bring him their old cars not having a clue that some of the repairs are quite time involved as well as requiring skills from years of doing work on those cars.  There have been a few cases where he shared the cost involved and since his shop was in NE Ohio they had enough rust to deal with as well. So, sometimes they would have to deviate from an estimate and let them know the cost went beyond the estimate.  There were other jobs where they had told the customer it was going to be very costly and the customer authorized the various repairs but had not done the math and then they simply refused to pay the bill.  They forfeited the car because of the work they authorized...  Or sometimes when faced with all the problems that needed attention they simply would sell him their car as they simply had faced athe reality their car was in far worse shape than expected because of neglect. If the car was not running when it came in and it needed a major repair that was a safety issue the law indicated they would have to sign off on that risk or in some cases the law dictated the car could not be returned to the road and driven away without an issue being addressed.  So, my friend had several cars as he also would purchase wrecked cars of that manufacturer because he would use good parts from the wrecked car to lower costs... Mechanical engine parts being a part that generally wasn't reused of course. But, some parts that were shown to be intact and in good shape would be used as a low cost alternative to his customers.  He also often would charge what a job was worth  instead of the actual time and effort it took since he didn't feel charging excessively was the right thing to do.  He was very ethical and didn't charge very high rates and was very honest and that can be a hard to find trait.

So, it would be bad to go down the path building a bike for someone without some assurances they were going to follow through.  If you build something very customized then the pool of potential buyers is reduced.

[chewbacca5000]

Don,

I agree with Raf on this one unless your are a Coginitomoto or are willing to do 30 step by step videos and edit each video to perfection it is not worth it.  The only way I would build any more bikes would be to help some inner city kids get some confidence and show them they can do something.

Only about 40% is the perceived value the rest is the marketing piece. 

The thing that most people don't understand starting out me included is that the trust factor is huge!  We all know each other pretty good and are comfortable buying bikes and parts.

No when we leave the forum we are starting over at zero!  No one knows who you are and you have to build that trust up.  It is a process.  That is why people like Devin at Cognitomoto build up a brand so they have the trust baked into everything they do.

Don't believe me build a bike, put it on Ebay and expect to hit a home run first time at bat.

[RAFster122s]

Look at some of the fabulous builds with phenomenal engineering and build from the experience from building with a buddy or building their own bikes.  A gorgeous rolling billboard of what can be done is in a pair of builders here that have BOTM nominations a few times...
I am talking about Branden and one of his builds he sold...TAO. He really pulled out the stops and built a beast and then sold it later,  TAO and trying to keep 3 bikes running and insured was drove him to the decision. It wasn't a fresh build but it was spotless and very top shelf build that was well sorted and only asking $5k for a bike that cost over $9k if I recall him saying it was in the ballpark of that figure...

So, you can't recoup the price unless someone is really realistic of what these things cost in time and money... The 9k was what he had in the build...not including all the time...

David

[BomberMann650]

Can I remind people - these bikes were $700 brand new 

[MoMo]

Can I remind people - these bikes were $700 brand new 

which bikes were 700? CB750 was 1495 list iirc....Larry

[Don R]

K2 cb500 4 cost $1539, I guess I got cheated. 

[MoMo]

K2 cb500 4 cost $1539, I guess I got cheated. 

first couple years of 750s were 1495 iirc.  As they became popular price jumped accordingly. Create a demand then bump up the price was Honda's marketing strategy-at least it seemed that way

[BomberMann650]

Maybe that was the wholesale number one of my customers remembered.  From his glory days building and selling hondas thru the 60's and 70's.  He used to pay a neigbhorhood youth $30 to assemble a bike out the box

[754]

Well he has got it wrong , and I would take anything he says from now on with a grain or two of salt.
 Too many on here around from the beginning. That will tell you prices were much higher than that.
Hondaman and Old Scrambler would have a pretty good idea on the pricing.

[MoMo]

30 was the rough average HOnda paid the shop, the assembler got 15.  I was the shop manager who paid the set up guys.

[RAFster122s]

I forget what they said the first thing to go was as you age... 

[Don R]

  My local mom and pop shop owner remembers building my bike and his bike because they were the first two 750's and he thought it was a big deal getting picked to assemble them. He bought his bike two years later when it was traded in and he was out of the army working there again.