Author Topic: The Amalgam: honda past meets present, take 2! or 3?  (Read 38341 times)

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Offline jag767

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The Amalgam: honda past meets present, take 2! or 3?
« on: October 17, 2016, 12:55:24 AM »
So a couple of members asked me to put up a build thread for this project, and who am I to say no? Haha.

Ever get tired of working on rusty things? Just want something to get on and ride without having to think about it? Then you're going to like this project. It started when I got fed up working on a old motor, and just wanted something new to ride. Through what is a long winded story, ended up saying to myself, why not do what car guys have been doing for years, and use an old bike, with a new motor?

Long story short, here is the parts list:

1972 cb450 frame
1972 cb350f tank
2007 suzuki sv1000 front end
2014 cbr500r engine

The sv1000 front end was a near perfect replacement for the cb450 frame. Length was near perfect, and the steering stem was "close enough" as well. I think the only minor change was an extra washer under the bottom race.

The motor fits the frame surprisingly well, well, maybe not that surprisingly considering it's almost the same bore/stroke, similar weight, and near identical hp. I chopped the cradle off the frame, and am intent on using 1 of the motor mounts that lines up as a starting point to rebuild the frame. In order to do this, I had to offset the mount (apparently this motor is not perfectly centered in its factory frame) and since the mount wil bet getting a 3/8 bolt instead of the 12mm it was build for, I needed to get rid of the slop. Unfortunately I no longer have access to a lathe, where I could have made some pretty sleeves to weld into the mounts. The down n dirty solution was to weld 1/8 inch steel to the ends of the mounts, and drill new holes. To make sure they lined up properly, I tacked the bolt in place and fitted the pre drilled plates to it.

The next chore was figuring out the motors angle. Factory called for the barrels to be at a 20 degree angle, and unfortunately we're gonna have to compromise a little. After adjusting the frame to what will be ride height, I need the motor as tight to the frame as possible for ground clearance. Even reducing the angle to 15 degrees, I only have 4 inches of ground clearance from the bottom of the oil pan. It'll have to do. 

Not that that's all done, the next step will be building new downtubes. The motor will be used as a stressed component of the frame, with 4 mounts there's plenty of strength for that. I picked up the correct frame for the cbr motor off ebay and hacked up for the mounts. Saves some time fabricating, and  gives me an idea of the strength required for each mount as honda wanted it for the motor.

This brings me to pretty much where I am now. The goal is a very light (3-325 lbs), slightly juiced up (60hp) little beastie that stops on a dime (4 pistons with 2 rotors of braking up front) and be a joy to ride. AND let's not forget it's fuel injected as well as liquid cooled. I plan on putting a lot of mIles on it once done. Oh, and let's not forget it'll still be registered as a 1972 cb450 and get classic insurance  :o  ::)

Here's a bunch of photos
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 02:15:01 PM by Glenn Stauffer »

Offline jag767

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Re: The Amalgam: 1972 CB450 frame, 2014 cbr500r motor. Oh boy!
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2016, 12:56:44 AM »
More
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 02:16:58 PM by Glenn Stauffer »

Offline jag767

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Re: The Amalgam: 1972 CB450 frame, 2014 cbr500r motor. Oh boy!
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2016, 12:57:37 AM »
It's only letting me put up 1 at a time so this'll be a lot of posts.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 02:18:12 PM by Glenn Stauffer »

Offline jag767

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Re: The Amalgam: 1972 CB450 frame, 2014 cbr500r motor. Oh boy!
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2016, 12:58:10 AM »
Motor

Offline jag767

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Re: The Amalgam: 1972 CB450 frame, 2014 cbr500r motor. Oh boy!
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2016, 12:59:33 AM »
Mocked up

Offline jag767

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Re: The Amalgam: 1972 CB450 frame, 2014 cbr500r motor. Oh boy!
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2016, 01:00:28 AM »
Gas tank change

Offline jag767

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Re: The Amalgam: 1972 CB450 frame, 2014 cbr500r motor. Oh boy!
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2016, 01:02:23 AM »
Modifying the mounts

Offline jag767

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Re: The Amalgam: 1972 CB450 frame, 2014 cbr500r motor. Oh boy!
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2016, 01:02:51 AM »
Exhaust on

Offline jag767

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Re: The Amalgam: 1972 CB450 frame, 2014 cbr500r motor. Oh boy!
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2016, 01:03:22 AM »
Another

Offline jag767

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Re: The Amalgam: 1972 CB450 frame, 2014 cbr500r motor. Oh boy!
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2016, 01:03:59 AM »
One more

Offline jag767

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Re: The Amalgam: 1972 CB450 frame, 2014 cbr500r motor. Oh boy!
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2016, 01:04:42 AM »
Last one, this is how she sits right now.

Offline bill440cars

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Re: The Amalgam: 1972 CB450 frame, 2014 cbr500r motor. Oh boy!
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2016, 10:00:16 PM »
Hey now, I'm getting into this build. Consider Me a Regular Viewer and please keep on posting. ;-)
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PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
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Offline jag767

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Re: The Amalgam: 1972 CB450 frame, 2014 cbr500r motor. Oh boy!
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2016, 03:30:10 AM »
Hey now, I'm getting into this build. Consider Me a Regular Viewer and please keep on posting. ;-)

Will do!

My bolt and spacer order came in yesterday, and my grand plan appears to have been effective. I spaced the motor over to the right to make room for the chain to clear the frame, then tightened up the bolt, effectively pulling the motor square to the frame and getting rid of any play. I will likely start the downtubes this weekend.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 05:49:32 AM by jag767 »

Offline 70CB750

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Re: The Amalgam: 1972 CB450 frame, 2014 cbr500r motor. Oh boy!
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2016, 05:22:09 AM »
Following
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Offline jag767

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Re: The Amalgam: 1972 CB450 frame, 2014 cbr500r motor. Oh boy!
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2016, 03:33:36 AM »
Small update:

The motor had to move to the right 1/4" and another 1/4" got shaved off the sprocket. Now we are as aligned with the rear sprocket . Speaking of the rear sprocket, finding one for a 520 chain with the amount of teeth i need has been tricky. Nick at moto madness is hooking me up with a 41 and 44t so I have options. I'm trying to narrow down on rims/tires, and i'm having an issue with the diameter as it relates to trail. I know I should be keeping to factory rake and trail, meaning  a 110 80 17 and 130 70 17 out back. I'd really like to run a 90 90 18 up front instead. It would mean .38 more trail, which I have a hard time as seeing as make or break. I know I could grab a cognito triple and get the 60mm offset to fix it, but I really want to keep the suzuki triple. I like the idea of the 90 90 18 and 100 90 18 out back, likely because it's the combination I usually use, and I like the riding on rails appearance rather than the thick ass rubber today's bikes use. I also haven't seen a thin tire up front with a front end conversion which I think will looking interesting. 

Someone who knows more than me please chime in, but the way I see it, 10% additional trail with a bike that'll be at least 80lbs lighter than stock should handle fine, and pick up more straight line stability.


Offline 540nova

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Re: The Amalgam: 1972 CB450 frame, 2014 cbr500r motor. Oh boy!
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2016, 03:53:45 AM »
80 lbs lighter? That's 1/5 of the original weight removed. I don't think so.


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Offline jag767

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Re: The Amalgam: 1972 CB450 frame, 2014 cbr500r motor. Oh boy!
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2016, 03:58:31 AM »
80 lbs lighter? That's 1/5 of the original weight removed. I don't think so.


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Think again, the motor swap alone takes off 35lbs, then the rims, lighter battery, signals, small headlight/taillight, seat, aluminum bars, smaller tank, no fenders, one tiny mirror, it adds up fast. Also the frame will end up a good bit lighter. I'd venture 80 is "in the ballpark".
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 04:42:20 AM by jag767 »

Offline slikwilli420

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Re: The Amalgam: 1972 CB450 frame, 2014 cbr500r motor. Oh boy!
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2016, 01:11:30 PM »
Im in. I love these "how low can you go?" projects. Im looking to take 130lb off the stock weight of my CB750.
All you gotta do is do what you gotta do.

Vintage Speed Parts Mashup: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=133638.0
Rickman CR Parts Kit Refresh: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,154837.0.html
AHRMA CB750 Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,158461.0.html
AHRMA Superbike Heavyweight Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173120.0.html
'76F CB750 Patina Redemption: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,174871.0.html

Offline 754

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Re: The Amalgam: 1972 CB450 frame, 2014 cbr500r motor. Oh boy!
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2016, 01:32:40 PM »
Remember any 530 sprocket can be thinned to 520.. And you can take it off one side or both depending if you need clearance.
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Offline jag767

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Re: The Amalgam: 1972 CB450 frame, 2014 cbr500r motor. Oh boy!
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2016, 02:09:42 PM »
If I didn't need a much large sprocket I would do just that, but the largest 530 I found was 38 tooth. I will likely be using 44t.

Offline jag767

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Re: The Amalgam: 1972 CB450 frame, 2014 cbr500r motor. Oh boy!
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2016, 03:59:10 PM »
Im in. I love these "how low can you go?" projects. Im looking to take 130lb off the stock weight of my CB750.

Nice! I figure if I get the weight into the low 300's as I think it will be it'll be a little rocket ship

Offline bill440cars

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Re: The Amalgam: 1972 CB450 frame, 2014 cbr500r motor. Oh boy!
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2016, 08:03:08 PM »
 

        Definitely tuned into this! Waiting for updates here, is kinda like my wait for the next season of Street Outlaws.  ;)
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

Offline jag767

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Re: The Amalgam: 1972 CB450 frame, 2014 cbr500r motor. Oh boy!
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2016, 01:28:46 AM »
 

        Definitely tuned into this! Waiting for updates here, is kinda like my wait for the next season of Street Outlaws.  ;)

Lol! Once I get my new sprockets In the mail and am 100% sure of the alignment I will be doing the downtubes, i have the tubing all ready for it. Once I complete the frame the the next items up are the headlight bracket, radiator mounts, exhaust hangar as well as exhaust modification, all the controls have been ordered so I might as well get them figured out, then it'll be wheel time providing I have money to do them. The tank will get send out to be modified to hold the fuel pump beginning of next year, i'm hopeful there's enough room to make it work without sectioning the tank and making it larger. That being said, it may have to end up an inch or two wider, longer, and taller to make it work.

At that point if I don't have a running bike I give up haha. I also have been giving some thought to the color scheme for the project, and I'm thinking like a flat black/chrome deal with all kinds of pinstriping/airbrushing (think old school Ford roadster). The other option is something more refined, like a titanium colored powdercoat for the frame/small components, and either a candy purple or candy green for the gas tank. I want it to grab your attention so we'll see!

Offline bill440cars

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Re: The Amalgam: 1972 CB450 frame, 2014 cbr500r motor. Oh boy!
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2016, 11:11:50 AM »
 

        Definitely tuned into this! Waiting for updates here, is kinda like my wait for the next season of Street Outlaws.  ;)

Lol! Once I get my new sprockets In the mail and am 100% sure of the alignment I will be doing the downtubes, i have the tubing all ready for it. Once I complete the frame the the next items up are the headlight bracket, radiator mounts, exhaust hangar as well as exhaust modification, all the controls have been ordered so I might as well get them figured out, then it'll be wheel time providing I have money to do them. The tank will get send out to be modified to hold the fuel pump beginning of next year, i'm hopeful there's enough room to make it work without sectioning the tank and making it larger. That being said, it may have to end up an inch or two wider, longer, and taller to make it work.

At that point if I don't have a running bike I give up haha. I also have been giving some thought to the color scheme for the project, and I'm thinking like a flat black/chrome deal with all kinds of pinstriping/airbrushing (think old school Ford roadster). The other option is something more refined, like a titanium colored powdercoat for the frame/small components, and either a candy purple or candy green for the gas tank. I want it to grab your attention so we'll see!

     You definitely have a plan going. And I, among others, are going along, for the ride. 
8)  ;)
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

Offline jag767

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Re: The Amalgam: 1972 CB450 frame, 2014 cbr500r motor. Oh boy!
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2016, 07:13:57 AM »
While i wait for parts i started on my headlight bracket. Still needs work but you get the idea