Author Topic: 78 GL1000 after sitting 20 yrs. refuses to be as good as my old 79. progress!  (Read 13744 times)

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Offline Don R

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 When I was younger I commuted down to 40*F. Anything lower and my knees ached all morning. I didn't have lowers on that bike, just the windjammer.
  When I became a plumber and tried to ride my bike to work my boss asked if I didn't need a truck because he could give it to someone else. I burned his gas from then on.  When he rode his bike (cb350 twin) to work the tinners put it in the bathroom. He never rode it again. Bastards.
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Offline Don R

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 This is the thread on the idler rebuilds.  Scroll to the end for the best pictueres.
 https://ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14186
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Offline Don R

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 I've been riding the wing off and on all year. Tonight the battery was really low and it wouldn't even bump the starter. I didn't even think to read the digital voltmeter. I charged it until it started and rode it a while. It's on the maintainer now.

 It still has a rushing ball bearing noise, (ssshhhhhh) mostly noticeable in second or third gears. I'm thinking of getting a check ride at my buddy's bike shop to see what he thinks.
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Offline Don R

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  The low speed miss still exists and I've had a pro clean the carbs. I've replaced the entire ignition and fuel system except the tank. Tonight, it occurred to me the fuel pickup tube must be sucking air inside the tank. I topped off the gas tank and it ran nearly perfectly. It is new tank time after all. 
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Offline low-side

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Re: Another 78 GL1000 after sitting 20 yrs, fuel line in tank sucks air?
« Reply #179 on: August 23, 2018, 10:28:58 am »
Don.  I've got 2 tanks, but both have some surface rust inside.  The 1 from the '79 is probably best as it has more varnish than rust inside.  I can't make any promises on the condition of the tubes inside, but they look good.  If you're interested, I will try to get some pics.  PM me on this or the NGW board if interested.

Offline Don R

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Re: Another 78 GL1000 after sitting 20 yrs, fuel line in tank sucks air?
« Reply #180 on: September 05, 2018, 08:24:05 am »
 When you're tried everything and it still runs lousy. I'm going to try a moving bike IV bottle to see if it runs better. with a full tank of gas it only runs good sometimes. I'm also considering buying the set of gl1100 carbs I borrowed for Sturgis last year. It seemed good with that set on it.  3 to 4 hundred.

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Offline Don R

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Re: Another 78 GL1000 after sitting 20 yrs, fuel line in tank sucks air?
« Reply #181 on: September 05, 2018, 02:15:32 pm »
 I put the IV bottle on the luggage rack, hooked to the fuel pump and ran a quart of gas through it. It mostly ran the same. I refilled with 50/50 race gas (because it was what I had left) and it ran much better, I switched back to the tank and it ran like it did on race gas. What I learned is, it ran ok warm today. That is all. Maybe I'll add some race gas to the tank.
 The only other idea I have is to drain the tank through the petcock and look to see how far down it drains. If there's a pinhole in the feed line it won't siphon past that point. Right?
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Offline Don R

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Re: Another 78 GL1000 after sitting 20 yrs, fuel line in tank sucks air?
« Reply #182 on: September 07, 2018, 08:35:37 pm »
 My brother and I both got new gl1000 petcocks about the same time, his is sucking air at the petcock to tank seal. His bike has been parked a year or so with a low tank.  I siphoned out the bad gas and could hear his sucking air. I sprayed WD40 on it and it would stop sucking air for a few seconds, then start again. Since you can't buy the seals without the petcock I stacked two o rings on each port in his and bolted it up. So far so good. I filled mine with gas and it doesn't leak out but I'm unsure if it will hold a suction. 
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Offline Don R

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 Runs great, gas goes down 30 or 40 miles. Runs lousy. I rebuilt the air cut off and it seemed better. After a ride not better, topped off tank. Runs fine.  I'm going to open the idle screws a bit and continue to look for a good tank.
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Offline Don R

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 I have a gas tank on the way from Pennsylvania, and I'm planning to add a relay to the ignition to insure proper voltage to the coils. 
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Offline Don R

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 I ran it on an IV bottle again still runs crappy, not the gas tank or petcock. A digital voltmeter reads 13.4 volts after the ign switch while running. I have a set of loaner 1100 test carbs that worked well on it before. I'm really sick of taking the carbs off and on. I'll test the fuel pump pressure and flow next, then try the loaner carbs. I'm really close to parting it out.
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Offline Don R

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Re: Another 78 GL1000 after sitting 20 yrs, next up, 1100 test carbs.
« Reply #186 on: November 08, 2018, 03:26:23 pm »
 I put on my buddies loaner carbs, they spew gas all over and didn't want to start. It finally started, sputtered and chugged. I warmed it up until the gas leak was scary and shut 'er down. I decided to go back to basics, 110 lbs compression, 2-3% leakdown, the valve lash is .004", the right intakes were slightly tight. I checked the timing on the flywheel the last time the carbs were off. It's good. The dyna is making good spark,  The manifolds have no cracks or leaks that blowing into them with a shop vac and spraying soapy water can detect. When I changed the idlers I checked the timing marks, the cams are spot on. I checked the slides with a shop vac, I can feel them go up and down with the throttle blades.  I bought a newer gas tank but apparently I chose a bad seller, tomorrow I'm filing a claim with paypal.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 03:32:42 pm by Don R »
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Offline Prospect

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Re: 78 GL1000 after sitting 20 yrs. refuses to be as good as my old 79.
« Reply #187 on: November 09, 2018, 12:47:24 pm »
What was wrong with the new tank?
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Offline Don R

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Re: 78 GL1000 after sitting 20 yrs. refuses to be as good as my old 79.
« Reply #188 on: November 09, 2018, 08:34:06 pm »
 It took over two weeks after I paid to get him to actually ship it. He was busy, the bike wasn't at his house, he works long hours, he's really sorry, he forgot, he's not a professional parts seller, not an amateur part seller, not home and can't get the tracking number. had to pack it, get a box, lalalala. had to go to ups, I really felt like I was being taken for a ride.
  When I get it will be three weeks since I sent the money. I'd prefer to make a new friend than have to hassle a guy, why's it gotta be like this? 
  The bike's on the lift and I'm not enjoying owning it much, spent too much to sell it now. I am however really good at pulling the carbs. 
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 08:41:05 pm by Don R »
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Offline Don R

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Re: 78 GL1000 after sitting 20 yrs. refuses to be as good as my old 79.
« Reply #189 on: December 06, 2018, 12:13:53 pm »
 I got the tank finally, it's a rusty POS. The seller is no less than a thief. I've been cleaning it with solvent and acid for two days. The main fuel tube was plugged, I got it open. The ceiling of the tank seems to still have rust, it's difficult to purge the air and get it in contact with the acid. I may need to find a way to seal the openings and roll it over or stand it on end one at a time. 
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Offline RAF122S

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Re: 78 GL1000 after sitting 20 yrs. refuses to be as good as my old 79.
« Reply #190 on: December 06, 2018, 04:35:08 pm »
good luck with the claim Don. Hope you get some satisfaction.
David stuck in the curvy back roads of "Upper East" TN

Offline Don R

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Re: 78 GL1000 after sitting 20 yrs. refuses to be as good as my old 79.
« Reply #191 on: December 08, 2018, 08:47:34 pm »
 Thanks, I just finished acid washing the tank and I think it's acceptable. I got a rubber plug for the sending unit hole but had to add to it with rubber electrical tape. It sat on end for another day filled to the top, I never would have believed it would clean up. Sometimes a day of work is better than the trouble of shipping and arguing with a person of low integrity.   
 I see why guys put the VW carburetor on the gl's these stock carbs are making me crazy, the 1100 carbs sat since I used then and dried out. They pumped gas all over the top of the motor. I promised I'd take the entire bike to my buddy that has the old time bike shop and let him have a try.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 08:58:12 pm by Don R »
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Offline RAF122S

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Re: 78 GL1000 after sitting 20 yrs. refuses to be as good as my old 79.
« Reply #192 on: December 09, 2018, 08:42:58 am »
That would not make me want to still not seek a pound of flesh from him via eBay. Where you find a thief you find a liar.
David stuck in the curvy back roads of "Upper East" TN

Offline Don R

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Re: 78 GL1000 after sitting 20 yrs. refuses to be as good as my old 79.
« Reply #193 on: December 13, 2018, 10:14:35 pm »
 Goldwing parts for sale and trade took down my post. I guess I got too negative politely warning others about a bad seller. 
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Offline Don R

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Re: 78 GL1000 after sitting 20 yrs. refuses to be as good as my old 79.
« Reply #194 on: December 17, 2018, 12:19:29 pm »
 I got the new tank acid washed, flushed and lined. The old one is way worse so I guess I came out ahead as far as that goes. I'm considering how to treat the sending unit, it's housing is as bad as the tank.
 The tank siphoned down to the top screen and then to the reserve screen so the hole in the fuel tube theory is defunct. I filtered the fuel into a clean tank but it's probably lawn mower gas now. I'll check everything that comes apart with it and flush the rear brakes while it's easy.
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Offline Don R

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Re: 78 GL1000 after sitting 20 yrs. refuses to be as good as my old 79.
« Reply #195 on: December 17, 2018, 08:39:14 pm »
 Vinegar on the sender to wash off the rust is next, The "new" tank is painted, the old tank is out and I'm wondering if there's anything in the front driveshaft joint that should be serviced while it's apart.
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Offline RAF122S

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Re: 78 GL1000 after sitting 20 yrs. refuses to be as good as my old 79.
« Reply #196 on: December 17, 2018, 11:03:55 pm »
Don, 


[/size]I don't know how the Wing's fuel system is designed other than the tank is not in the tank like reservoir but that is atop the motor and has electric and a storage area where a gas tank is typically. Is the sending unit not in the tank or is a screw in device and the sending unit housing for the fuel tank in your new tank or old tank is as bad as the tank? Too bad they don't make a fuel tank replacement that is a poly design like the dirt bikes that could be a drop in replacement. You would not be facing issues with the tank rusting then. But, even those age to the point of needing replacement, I think it is due to UV damage causing their replacement though...


Have you considered Evapo-Rust... It neutralizes rust without eating good metal. Oxalic Acid is suppose to do a good job with rusted things as well, also known as wood bleach, but being an acid it eats metal.  Evapo-Rust not an Acid it is a chelating agent.  It comes in a gray bottle and has burgundy on the label... It is Not a POR 15 product (Metal Ready?). It works best when heated, and works faster, but part needs total immersion or you can see a line form where the Oxygen causes metal erosion.
From a website discussion on www.practicalmachinist.com :

[/size][size=78%]https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/evaporust-vs-electolysis-discussion-262522/[/size]


"
[/size]First Evapo-Rust is a chelation agent not an acid or chemical but a synthetic iron molecule suspended in water with a PH of 7, neutral. If you rinse with hot water and the humidity is not too high you will probably have to do nothing. However drying it quickly is the key to prevent flash rust as when clean, your metal surface will be as virgin metal with no oil film to prevent rust, so priming it quickly is important. [/size]Unlike phosphoric acid this product leaves no film or residue and is safe on skin and the environment. No special precautions required.Check here for FAQ and how it works, <http://www.evapo-rust.ca/evap-2.html> "

Sorry to hear of the seller being a slimeball and not a reputable seller.



Front driveshaft splines need periodically greased with a good moly grease.
Guys on the CX list recommended the Honda Moly Paste 50 which I think is no longer available. I bought 2 oz of Moly powder off ebay and then a tube of Mobil 1 synthetic grease to make my own high concentration Moly Paste grease, compounding the grease with as much moly as it would accept. Moly absorbs water into the grease so it really should be replaced periodically.

Problem is if that shaft wears it is only on the used market you can get one. That spline shaft or the shaft spline in back into the drive gears for the rear wheels are a weak link on the BMW bikes that are old and not serviced properly.
The drive splines on the shaft input to the rear end gear set are also a point that needs proper grease maintenance everytime you pull the rear wheel or once a year, which ever comes first. I think yearly is the recommended interval...or mileage based...but my CX has been off the road a couple years now for a few reasons so, I don't recall the interval exactly...presuming it is like many other maintenance tasks that are yearly.
Lots of Wings out there, but better to not need to change out the rear end or drive shaft if you do not need to do so. Grease the shaft as well, usually a zerk on the shaft if I recall correctly.

The CX500/GL500 or 650 rear end is different from the goldwings. One guy on the CX forum is adapting a Wing rear shaft to their CX or GL...I have skimmed the thread but don't recall exactly which bike it was and the reasoning. I think it was for the rear end giving a different ratio for the gear set he was looking to achieve a perf difference by cutting down the shaft and the housing off of the Goldwing to either give better highway mileage or performance...don't recall which. Wasn't a faint of heart feat to attempt. Been several on that list who "spun" their own trike setups out of a GL500 or GL650. The 650 motor would have been a nice one for Honda to have come out with on the CX and Silverwing bikes...many feel it would have made a change in sales numbers for the run. As it was, in the US the 650 was a one year wonder in the US. The CX650 is a cruiser setup with a seat that is massively uncomfortable and down right fugly. Has a "choppersque" stepped seat. I am not a cruiser bike fan, they don't appeal to me at all, to each their own.
[/font]
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 12:14:40 am by RAF122S »
David stuck in the curvy back roads of "Upper East" TN

Offline Don R

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Re: 78 GL1000 after sitting 20 yrs. refuses to be as good as my old 79.
« Reply #197 on: December 18, 2018, 01:23:30 am »
 I bought a gallon of evaporust once and it didn't seem to do anything. I read it would de-rust on a rag left on a rust spot. That did nothing and the gallon in the tank didn't do much. To be fair the tank was really bad and it might have worn out the evaporust before it had time to work.
 i'm good on the rear of the shaft, there is a zerk and I plan to clean and re-grease the splines. I'm not familiar with whatever is in the front. I believe it's a cv joint but am not positive. My buddy wore his out at 240,000 miles that is on a 6 cylinder valkyre.
 Some of the goldwing guys have swapped rear ends for different reasons but it seems no one was really pleased with the result. Honda got it right.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 01:27:02 am by Don R »
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Offline RAF122S

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Re: 78 GL1000 after sitting 20 yrs. refuses to be as good as my old 79.
« Reply #198 on: December 18, 2018, 05:16:30 am »
Evaporust is slow to work...doesn't work when temps are low it is a chelating compound and it surrounds the rust in a chelate and binds it up forming the black particles that precipitate to the bottom or stay in suspension until the stuff is used up. If you heat it to 70 or 100F it works much faster. YOu can put it on a rag and then use plastic wrap on top of it (food wrap) and it will help slow the evaporation and allow it to work. Covering a container that has evaporust in it is advised. An incandescent light bulb close over a tray or container with the evaporust will provide some heat to the solution short of putting something like a fish tank heater in the solution. I have a gallon of it but haven't used it yet.

I also have a 5 pound bag of Oxalic Acid, A gallon of Prep and Etch (Phosphoric Acid), and a 5 pound bag of Citric Acid crystals...any of which can be used to de-rust or descale a radiator in the later's case...

It has a universal joint just behind the rear case of the output shaft which has a bearing in the case and a oil seal for the shaft. There is a spring assembly as well to tension the sliding joint to the transmission output shaft to the shaft for the rear final gear drive...
Outside the case there is the U-joint and then the end of the shaft that goes through tube for the swing arm. The spline back at the pumpkin and the U joint both need serviced appropriately.
Attached a few diagrams from the '79 GL1000.

David 
David stuck in the curvy back roads of "Upper East" TN

Offline Don R

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Re: 78 GL1000 after sitting 20 yrs. refuses to be as good as my old 79.
« Reply #199 on: December 18, 2018, 08:39:43 am »
 I got 5 gallons of pre diluted Muriatic acid free from my brick layer buddy. I noticed it also works better when heated by a light bulb. I don't remember if it was cold or warm when I had the evaporust. The chemical action sounds preferable.
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