Author Topic: Do I need sealant for a cooper gasket? (Read 6401 times)

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #50 on:** October 04, 2016, 01:35:37 PM »

Quote from: camshaft1991 on October 04, 2016, 10:41:49 AM

In general, how would I go about annealing copper washers?

Just heat them with a propane torch until it glows red, then quench in water.

Quote from: camshaft1991 on October 04, 2016, 10:41:49 AM

How many times would I need to heat each washer?

Just once

camshaft1991 · « **Reply #51 on:** October 04, 2016, 03:08:01 PM »

Great, thanks. The washers are coming out great, I think.

Annealed and regular.
I used a propane torch and extra long needle nose pliers. I would turn out the lights and let the natural light dimly light the room so I can see the color better. I get it orange hot then I quench it in water.

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camshaft1991 · « **Reply #52 on:** October 04, 2016, 03:53:48 PM »

Is this normal? I thought all the washers would burn away impurities

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camshaft1991 · « **Reply #53 on:** October 04, 2016, 03:54:53 PM »

Top washer 2nd pic: what is that ring?

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DaveBarbier · « **Reply #54 on:** October 04, 2016, 04:17:07 PM »

That's normal, as it's heated the copper on the surface combines with oxygen to form some...science compound that I don't know the chemical name of.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #55 on:** October 04, 2016, 04:19:08 PM »

But Flybox linked you to some copper washers. If yours are too squished I'd get new ones.

camshaft1991 · « **Reply #56 on:** October 04, 2016, 08:52:04 PM »

I can't find any M8s that have an OD of 16mm and and a thickness of 2mm. The M8 washer on eBay has an OD of 14mm and a thickness of 1mm. The OD doesn't bother me but I'm not too sure if I could use a thinner washer.

I just had an "oh yeah moment" when I forgot to look up the part number, 90441-377-000. I'm kicking myself right now, but I found that Partzilla may have it in stock. I emailed them asking if they can relay the dimensions of their stock back to me.

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camshaft1991 · « **Reply #57 on:** October 04, 2016, 08:57:01 PM »

Also the pics I sent of the washers are seen as green, however I'm looking at them right now and they are yellow..

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MRieck · « **Reply #58 on:** October 05, 2016, 04:15:25 AM »

Honda part # 90441-422-000
8mm copper washers as used on the 750F2 head. I use them on the oil passage studs on all 750 engines

camshaft1991 · « **Reply #59 on:** October 05, 2016, 07:47:31 AM »

MRiek: that is actually the part number that supersedes the one I just listed.

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camshaft1991 · « **Reply #60 on:** October 05, 2016, 07:48:58 AM »

However when I put that went into Google it goes straight to CMS

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camshaft1991 · « **Reply #61 on:** October 05, 2016, 12:45:58 PM »

I found some, finally! Partzilla didn't have them in stock so I called a certified Honda dealer and they did a part search on their national database. Many dealers have a few in stock but I was able to get 12 from Cycle West in Petaluma California. They may have more but I'm not sure how many. They are $4.50 each.. but this is one of those parts you can't skimp out on which is about 90% of the bike.

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MRieck · « **Reply #62 on:** October 06, 2016, 04:38:34 AM »

I have them in stock too.

camshaft1991 · « **Reply #63 on:** October 06, 2016, 05:33:20 AM »

Ha. Well thanks for the offer, but maybe this post will help someone else later on who is washer hunting as well.

camshaft1991 · « **Reply #64 on:** October 15, 2016, 02:20:27 PM »

Well I've been able to find a day finally to work on bike again. My old copper crush washers don't seem to be too worn out compared to the replacements. New and old have the the exact same thickness and with not a hundredth of a mm difference. The inside diameter of the old copper crush washer is almost a quarter millimeter bigger. The outside diameter of the new copper crush washer is a millimeter bigger. It almost doesn't seem necessary to change them out but since I have new copper crush washers why not..

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camshaft1991 · « **Reply #65 on:** October 15, 2016, 09:55:28 PM »

I had trouble taking off my cylinder head because the tiny washers that I mistakenly used had become partially recessed and were stuck. Luckily, I managed to get them all out without damaging anything. I might have figured out why the copper gasket wasn't fitting properly but I don't know how I missed this in the first place.

It's hard to see but the edge of the surface is jutted up. So the surface isn't flat. And threads in the picture are messed up but I have thread repair to use on it. It could be the oil leaking culprit but after cleaning the copper gasket I noticed it was leaking everywhere

Second picture is the bottom. From the looks of the the top, oil seemed to be leaking everywhere. I cleaned it with acetone and shop towels and those streaks were still there. My guess it was where the oil was leaking.

I'm about to clean and prep my surfaces before I spray the gasket with copper spray. If the gasket before the copper gasket never leaked I believe the one have now to replace the copper won't leak either.

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flybox1 · « **Reply #66 on:** October 16, 2016, 08:22:15 AM »

Dont use that copper gasket. OEM or MLS and be done w it.

camshaft1991 · « **Reply #67 on:** October 16, 2016, 11:44:33 AM »

Flybox1: yeah I know..

On another I thought I stripped my carb bowls but it turns

I shredded the gaskets..

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camshaft1991 · « **Reply #68 on:** October 16, 2016, 11:45:07 AM »

Flybox1: yeah I know..

On another I thought I stripped my carb bowls but it turns

I shredded the gaskets..

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flybox1 · « **Reply #69 on:** October 17, 2016, 06:50:36 AM »

fuel resistant viton
http://4into1.com/shaped-o-ring-float-bowl-gaskets-4-pack-honda-cb350f-cb400f/

camshaft1991 · « **Reply #70 on:** October 17, 2016, 11:15:31 AM »

I got my head on and I blinged out my gasket

That's my replacement gasket with two coats of copper spray. I torqued the head on before the spray solidified. It is from CRC. I did everything per instructions. Also if I screw up the can claims it even allows for easy removal of gasket.
I have another question regarding anti-seize and thread repair, can the two be used together?
Loctite thread repair and permatext anti seize 81343.

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camshaft1991 · « **Reply #71 on:** October 17, 2016, 11:22:44 AM »

To clarify this is the same gasket

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camshaft1991 · « **Reply #72 on:** October 21, 2016, 04:07:04 PM »

I assumed not to mix the thread repair and anti seize and went ahead with cleaning out all the female threads on top of the cylinder head of anti-seize. I found out the adjusted torque value with anti-seize is 4.4 lbs/ft instead of the regular value in between 5.1 and 8.0 lbs/ft. My torque wrench can only identify 7.3lbs/ft as a minimum value. I used a socketed screw driver first then a small ratchet. I torqued everything finger tight periodically until my fingers couldn't tighten anymore. It's not exact but it is close as I can get. Everything seemed to torque well originally until I got to using the torque wrench. I set the peak at 7.5lbs/ft and recorded each value. I got almost every bolt to about ~7.4-7.6lbs/ft in a single pass because nothing else can be done after unless I wanted to do a static test, which I did. I accidentally went to about 8lbs/ft on the 4th bolt in the sequence, but my manual states the maximum deviation should be no greater than 1.5lbs/ft. Four of the otter most bolts could not reach 7.3lbs/ft.

They are marked wth tape. I used one hand again to test static torque.The bolts with blue tape can't be torqued with a socketed screwdriver but the one in duct tape will keep twisting.

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Author Topic: Do I need sealant for a cooper gasket? (Read 6401 times)