Topic: Palepainter's 750f project.. Al Fine'

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

April is going to be a tough month to compete with this likely on the blocks...or is it May that would be voted on in April?
David

We are currently voting for April BOTM.  Nominations will be open on April 1 for May BOTM.

[RAFster122s]

I knew someone would jump in to correct my errors...  What better than one of the guys who helps run the BOTM and gives us all those cross-posts in various forum areas to remind us to "get out and Vote" before the clock runs out.  Thanks CB750 Cafe Racer Fan! 
Peace out...
Boy my last post sure is long looking at it on the screen now... I only see a little window of text on my tablet. Yes, I know who Captain Obvious is...


If you guys like I could send that SoyBoySigh or SighBoySoy or whatever his ID is to step in and show you a really really long inane posting.

[palepainter]

Shawn, so, is the paintjob offer on the table to sort the Suzuki GS wiring for you?
Do you think a paint job in trade for someone to have done your electrical for you still a fair deal to you?
Seems to me it is far more work to do all the hard work in the prep for paint so it comes out nice and stays nice.

Years ago, I have seen too many body repairs (done at good body shops that were not cheap) show up like a sore thumb where you can point to exactly where they used filler as the clear coat in that area would lose much if not all of the gloss where you could chalk an outline of the areas filled.
It would start being seen after a year to 18 months and easily seen from 15-20 ft away by 2 years.

I never understood how you could have a place do a body repair where some filler was required and they could do the job in less than a week.  The filler would still be hardening a week or more, even if it was in a warm shop or put in a booth with slightly elevated temps, (drying lamps not running full duty cycle like they would use to cure paint jobs so they could get the vehicle out of the booth for another paintjob...I am thinking 120F-140F bake... to get the plastic filler to fully harden and outgas any chemicals...close to all that it ever would. Or, if it is strictly a function of time for the cure.) To my knowledge they do not typically do, as they do not have the space in booths for that to be done and it is expensive to use the booth that way.  Granted this was stuff I was seeing done around 2000 and before.  Have materials advanced where that is no longer an issue? Is that a failure in not using a sealer that should have been done or was it just a failing of paint or body filler materials?
Even a coat of wax did not eliminate it from being visible as I am not sure if it was a combination of shrinking or outgassing when going through heating and cooling cycles or what caused it.

Sorry to go so far off the deep end...

Great job on the bike!  The clutch cable you ordered ever arrive?

April is going to be a tough month to compete with this likely on the blocks...or is it May that would be voted on in April?


David

Time is generally your friend when it comes to painting.  That only changes when you are dealing with windows between base coat and top coats.  But there are ways around that as well.  For example, if your base calls for clear to be applied within an 8 hour window, but you need to do striping or taped graphic that requires more time, all you have to do is use an intermediate clear or clear base coat to open up that window again.  A case in which too much time can slow things down is if you wait too long to buff.  A clear has an optimized point in time in which it sands and buffs the best.  That will vary with the type and brand of clear.  I typically do not like to rush stuff in regards to the cure, but will use UV lamps to accelerate when appropriate.

Sealer is a safety barrier when working over older paints.  If you have stripped the sheetmetal and are working up from there, generally, you do not need sealer if using a urethane or epoxy primer. 

Clutch cable didn't make it here....there was a snafu on order.  I found one locally.

In retrospect, the wiring job was easy once I trashed the idea of maintaining the factory harness.  Then it was pretty straight forward other than the new regulator pin coordination on the connection.  But, I would have much more enjoyed painting a bike for someone, than wiring.     It was good to dabble into the unknown a bit.

[RAFster122s]

Mike, I figured that was the case... Just like the way we have to approach a job of eating an elephant, only way it can be done is one step at a time.
Same way you prep a part...you break it into steps or bite size pieces.
Totally understand you on the enjoyment of one task over another...  In woodworking most almost universally hate sanding,  I love sanding...feeling it and seeing it come together...it is like getting a long curl when using a hand plane from a plane blade you've honed to a sharp edge and you are able to get the feel and smell and visual of that plane skimming off the high spots or leveling a board or trimming a joint with the plane...etc.
So, when it comes to polishing, while the sanding is tedious and it making your fingers hurt after a while, all of that work starts to quickly show when you start buffing the parts with the polishing compound and the gleam of the polished aluminum develops.
Stuff with intricate curves can be really tough though and you hate those just like everyone else. It really is the difference between having some of the tools that a professional would use that makes that task easier.

Oddly enough electrical many have a mental block that it is some giant hurdle they are not capable of solving.
Some of the electrical stuff with cars today is well beyond the ability of home mechanics because of the computerization of many modern cars. But, there are tons of cars that develop electrical problems and those shops doing electrical work earn $$$ because so many mechanics can't solve electrical problems because they are racing to crank out tons of work to perform and bring home their normal salary. Electrical problems usually are not something that is rapidly solved and is a single point of failure. The typical book rate and manufacturer's approach is to shotgun the problem into submission replacing lots of components until you don't see the problem or it fixes it. So, often wiring issues that go intermittent cost tons of money because if they are trying to solve it replacing lots of components and it is at the owner's expense. When the manufacturer is paying the bill they can afford to have the failed components or those replaced be sent to a recycler who can thoroughly test the component to cull through the expensive ones to see if they really were the problem with test equipment not available to every dealer.  Those remanufacturers would either verify it passes tests or it needs repaired and then they either replace the failed components or they scrap the part.
I've been down those same rabbit trails everyone has and understand some of those traps we fall into.

Bartering for work can be a very nice thing to have with people who know what they are doing and you can mutually benefit.

Having Calj virtually step beside you, and others on the forum doing this as well, and walk you through the confusing parts and helping direct you with wiring, Motogadget, or other troubleshooting and diagnostic work. 
Finding a community of owners like this whom are helpful instills that sense of community and "brotherhood" if  you will, or family and friendship. We are lucky to have this forum and those mods and owners who have fostered and developed the resource we enjoy today. Kudos to Glenn and all the mods and all the contributors.
Thank you and all the others who have threads as I know it is not the most time efficient and to write it up as well as to capture the pictures and add them.  It really can slow things down and that dialogue of the thread isn't without a cost to that thread owner.  I have done threads on one of my other hobbies and it is rewarding by the ideas and things your learn while you do it. It can be a bit of work to stop everything to catch a few pictures. On some things like laying up fiberglass composites you are racing time for the epoxy to kick off so it really takes another set of hands helping with photos and even during layups that is so helpful.

David

[budman]

Awesome job.  You beat me.  I'm still waiting on a few parts before I can test ride.

Let's see some pics with the fairing.

[palepainter]

Awesome job.  You beat me.  I'm still waiting on a few parts before I can test ride.

Let's see some pics with the fairing.

Changing out the original headlight plug today.  It is giving me a bit of grief...on...off...on...  Then I will throw it on.

[WesTenRacing]

Congratulations!  Looking forward to a report after the first ride/road test!

[RAFster122s]

Hella makes a very nice flat profile spring loaded wire connection plug for H4 and I imagine other bulb designs. They are really nice for tight headlight buckets or just a heavier gauge wire. I used them when I rewired a Volvo 240 for relays and direct connection from alternator using 10-12 gauge wire years ago. But I was running 80/100W H4s with European Code headlamps that had a crisp light cutoff.
The ECode H4s from Cibie /Valeo or Hella are far superior to the other brands commonly bought.  Good optics are fantastic.They really will amaze you and you will want them on all your vehicles.

This is it but it is WAY too pricey from this ebay seller...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-HELLA-001909001-H4-Bulb-Connector-with-Snap-Lock-FREE-SHIPPING-/142250688676?hash=item211ecd40a4:g:ZDkAAOSwNnRYgDwi


David

[RAFster122s]

Amazon has it cheaper...
https://www.amazon.com/HELLA-001909001-Bulb-Connector-Snap/dp/B000VU4W2Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489871677&sr=8-1&keywords=Hella+H4+connector

Or you can buy some that are ceramic and they are ideal for high wattage or high heat situations. A 50 or 60W H4 does run pretty warm when in a headlight housing and no air circulating.  Not needed, but over 20-30 years it takes it toll on the plastic many are made from...

[palepainter]

OK.. Roadtest report....

Initially, I let the bike warm up a few minutes with shop swamp cooler blowing on it.  72-74 lbs. of oil pressure on idle.  Running premium gas,  I tweaked the carbs the best I could with out a syncrometer.   Not bad, but could be better. Took it out in the country and put on about 10 miles.  I had a nice stretch of country road ahead of me, so I wound her up.  I was hauling bootie in 4th gear and I reminded my self that I laced my wheels and abruptly slowed down with a mischievous grin. I do not think I cracked the TON, but I am sure I was doing 80.      I think it is geared up nicely.  It is a completely different ride from my Hardly and Victory.  But I like it.  The neighbors all whipping out the thumps up and high 5s.  A few of them have been following along at the shop and drinking my beer occasionally.  The exhaust is just right.  Not real loud, but you hear it coming when the throttle is cracked. 

Seat, surprisingly comfy and really happy with the pegs where they are at.  I would need yoga classes to do anything other. 

Brakes...Not my Brembos on my Vic or the PMs on my Harley.  But I think I can get a better bleed on them.  Will check to see if any air need cleared out.  It stops great, but not as like I would prefer.  Brake upgrade on the front may be in the future. 

Suspension is working fantastic.  Increased the preload on the rear shocks for my 200lbs. 

Lights...The front bulb connection is original and going to be replaced.  Taking RAFs suggestion on that Hella unit.

I am pretty happy with the way it handles and rides.  I think I can improve it a bit.  Perhaps a preload on the front as well.  Just a bit more would be nice.  Now that I have it pretty close to being finished, I will save money for better ignition and coil set up.  I will change the oil this week.  Drop the pan and check pick up screen on pump and clean it while I am there if needed.  Here is a shot with the fairing on as requested by Budman.  The was right before finishing it up.  I will get some pics tomorrow.  I have a photographer lined up in two weeks.

[palepainter]

You can grab a cast iron rotor made for your bike from RPE in Australia. Or, you can step up to a Vintage Series Beringer setup made for your bike. That latter unit will crack your wallet, but it will give you nearly modern brake performance in a vintage styled package.

Thanks Cal.  Do you happen to have a link on the Beringer units.  I can not find it anywhere.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

You can grab a cast iron rotor made for your bike from RPE in Australia. Or, you can step up to a Vintage Series Beringer setup made for your bike. That latter unit will crack your wallet, but it will give you nearly modern brake performance in a vintage styled package.

Thanks Cal.  Do you happen to have a link on the Beringer units.  I can not find it anywhere.

Call and ask for Philippe.

http://www.beringerbrakes.us/shop.html#!/Classics/c/8815749/offset=0&sort=normal

Rotor and Caliper



Master Cylinder

[budman]

Super cool.  Congratulations.

[WesTenRacing]

Great!! The road test is inspiring.  Congrats. 
Now go and ride the wheels off it! 

[JoeCooley]

The bike is looking great! Definitely BOTM nomination.

How does the seat feel? Looks like knee pad material from the garden section. I've used it before for the same purpose. Haha

[palepainter]

The bike is looking great! Definitely BOTM nomination.

How does the seat feel? Looks like knee pad material from the garden section. I've used it before for the same purpose. Haha

Thank you! 

HEHE.    I got the material at Lowes in flooring dept.  12 bucks gets ya 4 2ftx2ft square.  Double sided carpet tape...clean surfaces real good and stick.  It is surprisingly comfy.

[palepainter]

Thank you everyone for the kind words.  This bike is no show stopper, it was built on a working man's budget. I really do not have a lot of money in this one.   A lot of nickel and diming as a result of starting with something that was rather stripped down.  Fortunately, the motor was recently gone through. I have a suspicion that I will be replacing the stator.  I have a buddy stopping by in the next week to go over it with me and adjust carbs.  As it sits thought, it will pretty much stay as it is unless I upgrade the brakes up front, before someone offers me more money than I want to part with it.    I have a couple other projects in the works and would be willing to step up the investment on the next one if I part with this one.  The CB750f was a big learning curve for me. 

I want to thank everyone with advice and help along the way.  Thanks to Shawn for the run down on charging system over the weekend.  Really great group of guys here.  Nice photos in next week or so. 

[Stev-o]

Just caught up on your thread....congrats on getting it roadworthy!  And just in time for the season...

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Excellent news

[palepainter]

I am suspecting the bike needs a new stator coil.  I am getting a reading of .8ohms across the board.  Pretty consistent, but seems low from what I am reading.  I pulled it off the bike to make sure I am getting a solid reading.  Thoughts?

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I had a similar issue with my 750.  I replaced the stator coil to no avail.  It turned out to be old wiring connecting the stator coil.

[palepainter]

I had a similar issue with my 750.  I replaced the stator coil to no avail.  It turned out to be old wiring connecting the stator coil.

So, you are saying that resistance reading is OK?  I would tend to believe I may have same issue.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Thoroughly test your 40 year old wiring to and from the stator coil.  The stator coils are much less likely to crap out on you than the wiring.

[palepainter]

I am going through the connections tonight.  Getting some magical connection cream and brushing up the brass.  The continuity on the yellow leads to plug is good.

[RAFster122s]

You will need to test the wiring at the coils to see if your resistance is better when measured there than at the stator. You may need to pierce the yellow wire with a large florist pin or straight pin or remove a nick of insulation where the wire is joining the coated magnet wire of the stator. Then use liquid electrical tape or a blob of silicone to protect that area. Best not to pierce the insulation where it is going to be exposed to the elements.  That is one way to test your wire from the stator to the connector body. If the resistance is not a very very small value when measuring with a good multimeter when measuring from the pierced point to your stator's connector then you might have found a problem.  Then, testing the stator voltage disconnected with the pierced points versus at the end of the yellow wire connectors on one branch to another/per the manual method of testing.
Inspect your stator and look for discolored spots around the stator and on each coil. The varnish I think they used should be fairly uniform color from area to area. A short will show up as a bright spot  or a black spot on the mounting surfaces that can be pretty small (1/16-1/8" circle or dark spot blowing away to a faded area around the short contact.)
Honda normally did a nice job wiring them and protecting them from this kind of problem.  You have to compare aftermarket stators to see if there are contact points where they route the wires differently. The CX500 is known for having failed stators and the Electrosport stators had quality issues because of the way they wind them and the mounting lugs of the stator mounts on the rear cover/stator housing. Even after making them aware of how and where it was failing they did not last for more than one CX owner so their advise is to steer clear of their stators and often their products.  Even when clearancing the stator mounts on the cover to not touch the stator developed burn through shorts on the stator coils in the middle of an arm. Improper winding method or technique compromising the enamel coating or other coating of the wire is the cause of this. Sometimes it is caused by pulling the wire too tightly when winding them. I've wound a few brushless motors for airplanes (RC) and used magnet wire, so I understand the cause and risks and testing when winding your own Wye and Delta termination of stator winding methods for those motors.
The Stator being an electro magnet and an enlarged version of the stators I would wind in the brushless motors, but I do not know the winding patterns and testing methods or termination methods used on our stators. I thing they are terminated in Wye form.   The difference between a brushless motor and our stators is that the speed control on a brushless motor is rotating the magnets if an inrunner from the switching electric field in the stator, or when in an outrunner motor it is spinning the outer bell with the magnets with the shaft attached to that bell. (externally rotating motor endbell on "outrunner" motors.
Electrosport made good on the failed stators but, you have to drop a motor and do some less than inexpensive work in gaskets and other things when you are removing the rear cover to access the stator on the CX/GL 500/650 motors.  The early stators and CXs with CDI have the failure, not the TI ignition system on the GL and CX500/650 equipped with the TI ignition.
Thus the reason for recommendation against using their stators.  Some have used them without problems, others have not...

Rick's Motorsports Electrics in Indiana has a very good reputation and can do custom rewinds when asked, they have for CX and GL owners in the past if I remember correctly.  It is the experimentation to find out the increase possible and wire sizes and number of turns needed to achieve the increased wattage that takes some one knowledgeable in stator systems and can test results to determine the best solution. It would likely require a different charging system/rectifier and regulator because those typically do not just dump the excess energy like the stock system when not needed. The regulator/rectifier units tend to handle that through heat and its dissipation. This may require relocating a Reg/Rect unit to more airflow.

That's most of what I know if you were to want to change the stator, generally the 750 doesn't need this, the 550 could benefit from a higher output stator/rotor and charging system. The 750 can get by without it.  The 550 system works fine when operated at 4000 rpm and above and can support more load than many think without negative effects if some conservation of power is applied to those items such as lights which are contribute to its draw. It won't support lots of electric gear or other sources which would be high drain...given you need over 50W and sometimes 100W of electric gear to stay warm in very cold temps, short of spending money on a very expensive cold weather riding suit like from Aerostitch (1200-1500 or more).

A GL1000 or GL1100 might give you better front brakes and be a cheaper solution for front braking improvement without going to a $1200 or $1500 or more into a modern front end solution...

David