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Offline The other Derek

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Clutch question CB750
« on: September 30, 2016, 07:17:15 AM »
The search function isn't working for me, so I apologize because I know this info is out there somewhere...

The clutch on my CB750k6 started slipping earlier this year.  Didn't have much of a chance to ride this year due to moving and all of the road construction between home and work.  I finally got out for a ride once the road projects started wrapping up and was reminded that the clutch was slipping.

I pulled the clutch apart, calipered the corks and determined that they were all just thin of spec.  I had 6 square cut corks and 1 slant cut cork in the basket.  I  ordered 7 new OEM corks thinking I was getting the square cuts, but received 7 slants.  My understanding is that the slants won't last as long as the squares.  Is there any other reason to not use them? 

I saw a 7 pack of square cut aftermarket corks on eBay for much less than I paid for the OEMs.  I've had the mindset to buy OEM whenever possible.  Would I be better off with the aftermarket square cut corks?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-CB750-Clutch-Friction-Plate-SOHC-1-Set-of-7-OEM-Ref-22201-371-000-/191781940239?hash=item2ca7182c0f
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Offline flybox1

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Re: Clutch question CB750
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2016, 07:32:19 AM »
HONDA Brand is straight cut.  These are preferred.
Aftermarket are all slant cut.
Clutch can slip for many reasons.  Maladjusted clutch cable ends, bad plates, oil not suited for wet clutches....
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'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: Clutch question CB750
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2016, 08:16:02 AM »
What is the part number (OEM reference number) you ordered/received for the "slant cut" disks? Later clutches (77/78 and some 76) used six straight cut with a slant cut in the outermost position. This (Honda) slant cut disk on the later models has wider tabs and would only fit in the outermost position. I believe that there are some aftermarket that produce all slant cut disks.
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Wilbur



Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
Taiwanese Cam Chain Tensioners:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155043.msg1774841.html#msg1774841
Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
Primary Drive: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166063.msg1919278.html#msg1919278
Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

Sent from my Tandy TRS-80!

Offline The other Derek

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Re: Clutch question CB750
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2016, 09:20:03 AM »
22201-371-000

I looked at the microfiche on Service Honda's website and saw that they were spec'ing 6 of 22201-371-000.  I assumed (uh-oh  :o :( >:() that those 6 were the same as my 6 straight cut discs and the 7th was the no longer available Disc B, so I just ordered 7 of the disc A.

Service Honda was apparently having shipping issues last week, so I cancelled my order and went with RevZilla.  I've had hit or miss service from them in the pass and this one was another miss.  With their stated availability and shipping, I should have been dealing with this last weekend. 

Google image search of 22201-371-000 shows both types.
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Offline flybox1

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Re: Clutch question CB750
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2016, 09:32:38 AM »
Quote from: The other Derek on September 30, 2016, 09:20:03 AM
Google image search of 22201-371-000 shows both types.
OEM and aftermarket OEM-spec
OEM Honda straight cut corks are not cheap.  $25+ per plate IIRC....
Id be surprised if you got all straight cut corks from that Ebay add, and interested what brand they are.
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'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline The other Derek

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Re: Clutch question CB750
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2016, 09:34:32 AM »
I ordered OEM corks from Partzilla.  Sorry if that wasn't clear.  They are packaged as Honda and slant cut.  They were ~$18/ea. 
« Last Edit: October 01, 2016, 10:10:15 AM by The other Derek »
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Offline Kevin D

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Re: Clutch question CB750
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2016, 03:16:28 PM »
Derek, don't forget the heavy duty Barnett springs.

Service Honda substituted slant cut plates on me a couple years back >:( >:( >:(
I roughed up the original steels and deglazed the original corks with 180? grit + springs and it was good for a year. I haven't yet installed the slant cut corks.
These days, it's pretty good until I really start thrashing it.
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71 CB750 K1
104,000 miles
Original Owner
———past———
70 SL100/125/150
70 Candy BlueGreen CB 750 K0
————————————————-
Former Honda parts kid/counter kid/do all
—————————————————————-
Whether you think you can or think you can’t, you’re right
Genius is 99% perspiration, 1% inspiration

Offline The other Derek

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Re: Clutch question CB750
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2016, 03:57:08 PM »
Hey Kevin- hope things are going well!

Yeah, thrashing it included a 2up ride onto M-5 and the clutch definitely wasn't up for that.  Accelerating up to 85 was a bit frustrating and slow.  I'm so happy 275 is done now, but I still haven't gotten out for a decent ride yet this year.

Already have the Barnett springs 8)

I also ordered a new points cover from Revzilla and it arrived with a little dent.  I figure now that I am shipping some stuff back maybe I should hunt a little harder to get the proper corks.

Anyone know the proper part number for the Honda square cut discs?
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Offline The other Derek

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Re: Clutch question CB750
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2016, 04:07:12 PM »
I know it's not super clear (need to stop dropping my phone), but these are the corks I got from Partzilla:
« Last Edit: October 01, 2016, 10:10:39 AM by The other Derek »
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Offline Kevin D

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Re: Clutch question CB750
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2016, 08:01:27 PM »
Derek, I found this help for search:

Try this search term in Google, or in the address bar of your Chrome browser, works great. Substitute for the search terms you want, put stuff in quotes, add the + sign as desired, yadda. Works great.

site:forums.sohc4.net ignition coil


Man o man,  I am glad that 275 work is done, what a PIA, except it's not quite done because I have to go out M5 way from time to time, yecch.

Your clutch slip description sounds very similar, hope you get it whipped. I think the search will say stock square cut corks + heavy duty springs + Hondaman tip drill extra holes in clutch hub for better oiling.
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71 CB750 K1
104,000 miles
Original Owner
———past———
70 SL100/125/150
70 Candy BlueGreen CB 750 K0
————————————————-
Former Honda parts kid/counter kid/do all
—————————————————————-
Whether you think you can or think you can’t, you’re right
Genius is 99% perspiration, 1% inspiration

Offline PeWe

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Re: Clutch question CB750
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2016, 09:10:39 AM »
K6 has different plates than the earlier. 6 are as the older, the outer one has wider ears. If you use all of old type the outer plate will not make it. I know since I have done that.
It is the clutch basket that is different in need of wider ears for the outer one.

This is how a K6 clutch should look like: (I run this clutch in my K6 with Barnett springs)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/76-78-HONDA-CB750K6-CB750K7-CB750F2-CLUTCH-FRICTION-PLATE-1145-/161408453864?vxp=mtr&hash=item2594b18ce8

Another seller
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CB-750-Four-K6-K7-F1-Kupplung-Reparatursatz-clutch-repair-kit-neu-/361539465801?hash=item542d6e7249
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CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline The other Derek

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Re: Clutch question CB750
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2016, 04:51:17 AM »
Thanks PeWe.  That's just what I needed.
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Offline The other Derek

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Re: Clutch question CB750
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2016, 06:35:46 AM »
Finally got a chance to assemble the clutch with the new discs last night and broke the lifter. 


I'm looking for a replacement now.  Posted a wanted in the classifieds section, but may be running to the salvage yard this weekend.

I was tempted to try to run it with this plate, but am a little worried that there could be additional cracking that could lead to more catastrophic failure.
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Clutch question CB750
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2016, 09:35:56 AM »
New Honda lifter plate is not expensive, not yet...
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CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: Clutch question CB750
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2016, 09:37:18 AM »
Quote from: PeWe on October 19, 2016, 09:35:56 AM
New Honda lifter plate is not expensive, not yet...

From whom? Everyplace I look this part is discontinued...
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TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
Taiwanese Cam Chain Tensioners:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155043.msg1774841.html#msg1774841
Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
Primary Drive: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166063.msg1919278.html#msg1919278
Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

Sent from my Tandy TRS-80!

Offline Kevin D

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Re: Clutch question CB750
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2016, 12:57:13 PM »
Logged
71 CB750 K1
104,000 miles
Original Owner
———past———
70 SL100/125/150
70 Candy BlueGreen CB 750 K0
————————————————-
Former Honda parts kid/counter kid/do all
—————————————————————-
Whether you think you can or think you can’t, you’re right
Genius is 99% perspiration, 1% inspiration

Offline PeWe

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  • Bike almost back to the 70's 2015
Re: Clutch question CB750
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2016, 01:11:12 PM »
Logged
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: Clutch question CB750
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2016, 01:20:00 PM »
Hunh. I was under the impression that these were NLA. Good to know they can still be had!  8)
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TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
Taiwanese Cam Chain Tensioners:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155043.msg1774841.html#msg1774841
Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
Primary Drive: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166063.msg1919278.html#msg1919278
Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

Sent from my Tandy TRS-80!

Offline Kevin D

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Re: Clutch question CB750
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2016, 02:25:03 PM »
Quote
NLA.

I have seen the dreaded NLA recently when on a parts hunt. It makes me think I might want to have a donor bike or engine on hand for long term supply.
Logged
71 CB750 K1
104,000 miles
Original Owner
———past———
70 SL100/125/150
70 Candy BlueGreen CB 750 K0
————————————————-
Former Honda parts kid/counter kid/do all
—————————————————————-
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Offline The other Derek

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Re: Clutch question CB750
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2016, 05:51:04 PM »
I ended up getting a lifter plate from Bill Benton.  I pulled everything back out and verified that everything was lining up properly before reassembly.  After reading about another member breaking multiple plates, I wanted to exercise a little more caution.

Once I had the clutch installed (and unbroken :D), I reinstalled the cover and adjusted the clutch.  It was so exciting getting out for my first ride since this summer, twisting the throttle back and feel it accelerate like I remember.  We're having crazy warm weather right now.  I'll probably be able to get a few more rides in before it gets too cold.

Thanks for the help guys.  8)
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